Buteless, Bute or Devils Claw/Relief

[LaurenBay]

Recently I have noticed my arthritic 13YO mare looking a bit stiff in her 2 hinds. I want to start giving her something to make her a bit more comfy. She is only very slightly stiff and still able to easily get up/get down and gallop around when she feels like it. So I don't want to jump to bute straight away if I can help it (well Danilon, she won't eat bute!) But my question is are these joint supplements actually worth it? or am I just better off giving her half a sachet of Danilon a day? I have been looking at Buteless or Devils Relief/Claw. I've tried Tumeric and she will not eat it.

 

[whiteflower]

I think different things work for different horses. I've a 30+ year old who I've tried everything with and boswellia works amazingly for her even at relatively low dose, none of those you mentioned had any effect on her. I have no issue giving her bute through cold spells in the winter or if she has to be in more than usual.

 

[tda]

I think you have to try a few things, our old gelding reacted well to No Bute liquid, and also Turmeric, whereas other oldies it hasn't made a difference

 

[ester]

I used boswellia with success when issues were smaller, now it doesn't touch it like bute does though.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I used boswellia with success when issues were smaller, now it doesn't touch it like bute does though.

I've got mine on Equine America joint supplement as she's had her hocks injected as she has spavin and its too soon to go down the tildren or fusion route although I know there are others that have with much success. So I thought I'd give her some product that I was recommended by someone. Some products have had a lot of research done on them so they are usually the more expensive top of the range stuff. Vets kind of have a phylosophy where they say that the only way you know whether something works or not is to stop feeding it. Of course they are happy to knock something up for you in a tub and sell it for an outlandish amount of money too. So I also give her a sachet of bute everyday but would worry if I had to increase it much more. It keeps her sound for what I want to do and I never have a problem feeding it to her, the only problem I have had for the last few months is that she's not finishing her breakfast or tea feeds, she eats them with relish but then doesn't finish them until I started mixing leisure mix in and now she wallops them down..

 

[PapaverFollis]

I had some "success" (observed, not verified) with Devils Claw when Granny's arthritis was more minor. I think just trying and seeing if there's a difference, particularly when they come off the supplement, is worth a go while the problem is still low key. Keeping in mind that it is difficult to observe results in an unbiased way AND that arthritis comes and goes anyway so you could be falsely attributing an improvement (that you may or may not be really observing) to the supplement when it's just random anyway! Lol. Setting some form criteria for performance improvement and ensuring correlation by taking them on and off the supplement a few times will increase your chances of finding something that is really working.

I fully admit I did not do this with Devils Claw and basically fed it cos it made me feel better to be trying something. Eventually we moved to bute and I know that definitely has an effect because it's a proper drug with all associated clinical trials etc! So it's about judging when to go on bute and what you might try in the meanwhile that may or may not be effective. As Granny was over 20 it was an easy decision to move to bute. With a younger horse I would be more keen and put more effort in to finding an effective alternative and would attempt an effective trial of the possibilities...

PS I have a stinking cold so this is just a mad ramble. Apologies.

 

[LaurenBay]

Thanks all.

I have started her on Bute less and will switch to Boswelia if I can't see an improvement.

Hopscotch, my mare has already had the fusion and the Tildren and neither worked. She is no longer ridden and turned out 24/7.

I am really started to panic now about her future When I retired her I promised myself that I would give her a nice retirement for however long she remained comfy and field sound. I thought I'd have a bit longer. Shes only been retired for a year and 5 months. I am going to give the supplements a go and if not then I will bute and access then.

 

[Scarlett]

We have a 20yo who has hock, stifle and SI issues. He was previously on one bute a day to keep him comfortable (still thinks he is a 5yo in his head, bless him) however I was worried about the long term effects of bute on his gut. We tried Devils Claw and it did help but not as much as I would like. About 18 months ago we started Vetrofen and it's made a big difference. There are different strengths so he is on the 'Healthy' version which is for daily use and if he needs a bit extra support, like after a fun ride where he has galloped for 8 miles, he gets a sachet or two of the Intense which is the equivalent of giving him a bute. Its comp legal if that matters and I've found it palatable. Works out about £27.50 a month which is nothing when it's given him a new lease of life. He was basically semi retired but is now jumping and galloping again. Very pleased.

 

[skint1]

Most of my horses have had varying degrees of arthritis and for each one the thing that worked at various stages was different.
My mare did really well on Devil's Relief, my tb gelding initially did well on turmeric, then devil's relief and finally bute, he had 2 years of happy retirement but the end of his 3rd year he began to struggle and we let him go. My IDx gelding I have tried devil's relief, boswellia etc which didn't seem to make much difference, and overall I would have said he was less arthritic than the other 2 but for him the trick is 1 sachet of danilon a day so that is what he has.

 

[SEL]

Thanks all.

I have started her on Bute less and will switch to Boswelia if I can't see an improvement.

Hopscotch, my mare has already had the fusion and the Tildren and neither worked. She is no longer ridden and turned out 24/7.

I am really started to panic now about her future When I retired her I promised myself that I would give her a nice retirement for however long she remained comfy and field sound. I thought I'd have a bit longer. Shes only been retired for a year and 5 months. I am going to give the supplements a go and if not then I will bute and access then.

My big boy was pottery this morning. I think the warm days then really cold nights aren't helping him right now. Don't be afraid to get the danilon into them. He'll get two per day for the next 3 days just to pep him up a bit then I'll go back to one a day. Its hard because last Friday he thought he was a racehorse and had a blat round and I think he's feeling the effect of that as well - I'd be more sympathetic if he hadn't destroyed all the electric fencing in his enthusiasm and made me late for work fixing it!!

90% of the time he's really happy so I try not to focus on the odd day when he's a bit creaky. When those days start to increase I'll need to have a stiff gin and man up to a decision I really don't want to take.

 

[LaurenBay]

My big boy was pottery this morning. I think the warm days then really cold nights aren't helping him right now. Don't be afraid to get the danilon into them. He'll get two per day for the next 3 days just to pep him up a bit then I'll go back to one a day. Its hard because last Friday he thought he was a racehorse and had a blat round and I think he's feeling the effect of that as well - I'd be more sympathetic if he hadn't destroyed all the electric fencing in his enthusiasm and made me late for work fixing it!!

90% of the time he's really happy so I try not to focus on the odd day when he's a bit creaky. When those days start to increase I'll need to have a stiff gin and man up to a decision I really don't want to take.

It is so hard isn't it I really can't imagine her not being here. She's been with me for 7 years and has been my absolute rock through the good times and the bad times. I had 2 different vets as I wanted a second opinion and both said she is very likely to develop arthritis in other areas due to her hocks being so bad for a 13YO. She has always been a Horse who hides her pain very very well so I am worried I will not spot the signs quick enough and she ends up suffering. I will give her a bute with her buteless today (although she now turns her nose up at danilon too!) and hopefully that will help.

 

[ester]

LB you've always done your best by her though, and know her well. When Frank was struggling earlier this year it was as much his demeanour that was the giveaway than his actual movement- the vet was quite pleased with the latter but I knew he wasn't happy.

 

[SEL]

LB you've always done your best by her though, and know her well. When Frank was struggling earlier this year it was as much his demeanour that was the giveaway than his actual movement- the vet was quite pleased with the latter but I knew he wasn't happy.

It is their general attitude isn't it? That's why I know my mare is fine at the moment despite her stuffed hocks and ligament. She's still her happy, food orientated self who removes the electric fence posts one by one to get to the grass. She lets you know when she is under the weather. My boy is very stoic and worries me more because like LB I don't want to miss the signs that he's having too many stiff days.

 

[LaurenBay]

thanks both, I am sorry you are both facing this too. I am glad that yours are happy at the moment though.

I only have a few Danilon left, So I will need a vet to come out to prescribe more anyway. I am going to ask them watch her move and trot up and see what they think. At the moment she is still herself just looks stiff. Although she had no problem almost running me over for her food at lunch.