Buy, loan or share

[Amy101985]

I have been sharing a cob for seven months. Unfortunately he isn't forward going enough to have lessons, a nappy hacker and I've had a lot of internal conflict about the owner being rude and unpleasant towards me. Anyway, I am no longer sharing him which is a huge relief to me but now I'm left without a horse!

Now goes the search for a new share. I've put the feelers out and am waiting for responses. I'm worried about having bad experiences with an owner again and would like a bit more control over the horse on my days, as the owner would come up every evening to do jobs and wasn't very friendly and would make me feel awkward.

However, I have been considering whether it is time to full loan and have even been thinking about buying. I need someone to talk me out of it! Have other people and a better experience of sharing?

Basically I want to know exactly the sort of expenses I would be looking at every month. I do feel the initial outlay for a decent horse is way too expensive at the moment but am interested in what the monthly costs really are.

I live in the south east. DIY livery with good facilities (indoor and outdoor school) generally is around £270 - £280 per month. Are there DIY yards cheaper than this?

I'm 25, have been riding for 5 years and shared for 8 months. I'm continuing lessons which are £25 for 30 minutes. I live with my parents but plan to move out soonish and in excess of £30k per year. Please just tell me it's too expensive and I'll always be poor!

 

[muddybay]

I have been sharing a cob for seven months. Unfortunately he isn't forward going enough to have lessons, a nappy hacker and I've had a lot of internal conflict about the owner being rude and unpleasant towards me. Anyway, I am no longer sharing him which is a huge relief to me but now I'm left without a horse!

Now goes the search for a new share. I've put the feelers out and am waiting for responses. I'm worried about having bad experiences with an owner again and would like a bit more control over the horse on my days, as the owner would come up every evening to do jobs and wasn't very friendly and would make me feel awkward.

However, I have been considering whether it is time to full loan and have even been thinking about buying. I need someone to talk me out of it! Have other people and a better experience of sharing?

Basically I want to know exactly the sort of expenses I would be looking at every month. I do feel the initial outlay for a decent horse is way too expensive at the moment but am interested in what the monthly costs really are.

I live in the south east. DIY livery with good facilities (indoor and outdoor school) generally is around £270 - £280 per month. Are there DIY yards cheaper than this?

I'm 25, have been riding for 5 years and shared for 8 months. I'm continuing lessons which are £25 for 30 minutes. I live with my parents but plan to move out soonish and in excess of £30k per year. Please just tell me it's too expensive and I'll always be poor!

I mean if you have a horse you will always be poor! Normally just about when you're about to buy something for yourself they'll need a new rug but if you think you're ready it's so rewarding

 

[EllenJay]

In the South East - I would check those prices.

With regards to owning or full share of a horse, you need to consider if you have time and money.

Daily, you will need to muck out and turn out. Timings 30mins - 1 hour. Riding 30 mins to 1 hour (longer on non-working days), bringing in and poo picking fields (30 mins to 1 hour). So on a daily basis you are looking to dedicate 90 mins a day - excluding travel time.

Costs - the costs are roughly 2 times the cost of the yard to include hay, bedding, feed and insurance.

Initial outlay - tack, rugs, grooming kit, headcollar, haynets - budget for £2k

Regular Farrier cost from £25 for a trim upto £60 every 5/6 weeks.

Lessons (if you want them). Average around £20-£45 per half hour

Vet - depending on the horse and your insurance - but minimum budget £250 a year.

 

[Wishfilly]

Loaning is a good way to figure out if you can afford it- although the owner may continue to pay some costs like insurance.

I earn less than you, and live alone, but I am also in a much cheaper area of the country- I pay about £180 a month with some hay and bedding included. Check what you get for your £280, bedding and hay will easily be another £60+ a month.

On top of that, you need feed (which will vary according to your horse) and insurance. Mine is £80 a month for a young, healthy horse, but it does have quite a high yearly limit. You'll also need to cover standard vet costs like vaccination, teeth etc on top and call out fees etc. Plus worming, farrier, and so on.

Doing DIY and working full time can be tricky too, so you may need to budget to pay for some services at times.

Have you got money saved up to cover the initial purchase of the horse + vetting etc? At the moment, horse prices are quite high, so you will probably need at least £4-5000 to buy something reasonable and safe.

Loaning is a good middle step if you would like some more control, but at times it can also be stressful and heartbreaking.

 

[Winters100]

The problem with horses is that you have to always expect the unexpected. I can go for months and months without significant vets bills, then suddenly all come at once. This week I have 1 in the hospital, needed a small growth removing from his eyelid. Small surgery, but with the general anesthetic and hospital stay it will be a hefty bill. About 5 months ago another had to have a standing surgery for a tooth removal (second one to come out in 2 years). Again a simple surgery, but with horses these things are costly.

I would not say don't do it, but if you do make sure you are commiting to this with your eyes open, because unlike a share or a loan if the horse has an accident or illness that prevent it from being ridden again you will be responsible for it.

If you do decide to go ahead you will have moments when you spend eye wateringly large sums, countless days leaving the house in the wind and rain before the sun is up, and times when you really worry about the horse, but speaking personally they are worth everything for the amount of pleasure they give.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

My daughter’s semi-retired horse was on DIY in the southeast and we were paying a lot more than £280 a month in total. Basic livery was £220 a month for a stable, use of a fairly small outside arena, jumping paddock in the summer and plentiful turnout (rarer than you’d think). However we also had to pay for assistance (bringing in/turning out/rug changes) as we lived too far away to do twice-daily visits, hay, bedding, feed etc which nearly doubled the cost. On top of that there’s vet costs, insurance, farrier, saddler, dentist, physio, lessons, transport. And then there’s the initial set up costs - buying all the equipment you need for DIY plus tack, rugs etc

When I’m feeling brave, I put everything into a spreadsheet (and then feel sick...)

 

[Smogul]

Now goes the search for a new share. I've put the feelers out and am waiting for responses. I'm worried about having bad experiences with an owner again and would like a bit more control over the horse on my days.

Having had several sharers over the years, some great and some not so good, saying you wanted more control over the horse would be a total no-no for me. At the end of the day, the horse belongs to the owner who has ultimate responsibility for its welfare and any vets bills it might incur. If I say the horse should not do x or must do x, I needed to be sure the sharer would comply with this.

Can't comment on costs in your area or DIY as have always been on full livery.

 

[Amy101985]

Having had several sharers over the years, some great and some not so good, saying you wanted more control over the horse would be a total no-no for me. At the end of the day, the horse belongs to the owner who has ultimate responsibility for its welfare and any vets bills it might incur. If I say the horse should not do x or must do x, I needed to be sure the sharer would comply with this.

Can't comment on costs in your area or DIY as have always been on full livery.

That's not what I meant. I was referring to being a bit more independent on my days i.e. not being micromanaged.

 

[Amy101985]

My daughter’s semi-retired horse was on DIY in the southeast and we were paying a lot more than £280 a month in total. Basic livery was £220 a month for a stable, use of a fairly small outside arena, jumping paddock in the summer and plentiful turnout (rarer than you’d think). However we also had to pay for assistance (bringing in/turning out/rug changes) as we lived too far away to do twice-daily visits, hay, bedding, feed etc which nearly doubled the cost. On top of that there’s vet costs, insurance, farrier, saddler, dentist, physio, lessons, transport. And then there’s the initial set up costs - buying all the equipment you need for DIY plus tack, rugs etc

When I’m feeling brave, I put everything into a spreadsheet (and then feel sick...)

The £280 per month is just for the DIY livery so stable, use of three schools, horse walker and turn out. No bedding or hay included so I wonder if this is still just a more expensive yard? I've seent wo in my area with these prices. I also worry about having to pay for services on top of that if I can't do twice daily trips, so there is that to consider. This yard is a 15 minute drive from my house. Thank you for an informative reply!

 

[Amy101985]

In the South East - I would check those prices.

With regards to owning or full share of a horse, you need to consider if you have time and money.

Daily, you will need to muck out and turn out. Timings 30mins - 1 hour. Riding 30 mins to 1 hour (longer on non-working days), bringing in and poo picking fields (30 mins to 1 hour). So on a daily basis you are looking to dedicate 90 mins a day - excluding travel time.

Costs - the costs are roughly 2 times the cost of the yard to include hay, bedding, feed and insurance.

Initial outlay - tack, rugs, grooming kit, headcollar, haynets - budget for £2k

Regular Farrier cost from £25 for a trim upto £60 every 5/6 weeks.

Lessons (if you want them). Average around £20-£45 per half hour

Vet - depending on the horse and your insurance - but minimum budget £250 a year.

So for monthly costs you're also looking at another £280 per month for hay, bedding, feed and insurance which equals £560 per month without the farrier, back person or whatever else?! Yikes! A lot of people at my yard have very run of the mill jobs and more than one horse but obviously I don't know about their personal circumstances. For someone like me it's a huge financial commitment. Thank you for such an informative reply

 

[Amy101985]

Loaning is a good way to figure out if you can afford it- although the owner may continue to pay some costs like insurance.

I earn less than you, and live alone, but I am also in a much cheaper area of the country- I pay about £180 a month with some hay and bedding included. Check what you get for your £280, bedding and hay will easily be another £60+ a month.

On top of that, you need feed (which will vary according to your horse) and insurance. Mine is £80 a month for a young, healthy horse, but it does have quite a high yearly limit. You'll also need to cover standard vet costs like vaccination, teeth etc on top and call out fees etc. Plus worming, farrier, and so on.

Doing DIY and working full time can be tricky too, so you may need to budget to pay for some services at times.

Have you got money saved up to cover the initial purchase of the horse + vetting etc? At the moment, horse prices are quite high, so you will probably need at least £4-5000 to buy something reasonable and safe.

Loaning is a good middle step if you would like some more control, but at times it can also be stressful and heartbreaking.

Thank you for such a detailed response. I do have money to pay for the initial outlay, I've seen a few very safe and sensible horses for approx £5-6k as you have said and it has definitely gone up. I'm not sure how much a vetting costs. I'd probably also want to take someone experienced with me like my instructor so I'd have to pay her too. But it is the ongoing costs that worry me as that is the long term commitment and full loaning may be the solution but I have heard they are difficult to find and it is inevitably going to end at some point which could be stressful as you have said.

I do think £280 is a lot for DIY livery and that is no bedding or hay, just the stable and facilities. It's the yard my share was on and it does seem that it was only the indoor school that made it worth it. You don't have to pay for flood lights, hire jumps or anything like that and it does have a cross country course that is free to use but the hacking is rubbish so it's pretty much the only place you can ride which seems like a poor compromise to me unless you want to gallop.

 

[AandK]

I'm in the SE and pay £145 for DIY with a stable, and £100 for DIY grass livery. On top of that there is hay (£40 ish a month), feed (can vary wildly, I have TBs so pay a lot!), bedding (can depend on how messy your horse is, straw is cheaper than shavings) insurance (£60 a month), farrier (£26 for a trim/£58 shod in front/£86 shod all round). Other extras like lessons, and I try to put a bit away each month into a pot for the routine annual things like jabs, teeth, saddler.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Just because you see people keeping horses on a shoe string doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Don't get me wrong it works for some but not for me.

I know people that have had to sell a saddle pad just to pay for the next hay bill, or don't get regular saddle fitter out because they can't afford it. To me that is neither right for the horse or an enjoyable experience for the owner! But each to their own.

Costs also fluctuate wildly depending on the type of horse/pony you go for. I like native ponies that live on fresh air, can be barefoot, rugless etc. I buy a bag of oat straw chaff for £10 and it lasts me 6 months. Others with flashier types can spend multiple times that in just a month. My mare is barefoot and has a trim every 6 weeks which costs £25. 4 shoes round here (Surrey) costs £80.

I do very similar to AandK above. I set aside £500 a month (my livery is £175 in Surrey so cheaper than you are quoted but mine is very cheap for the area). Some months (summer) where I use less hay I spend less and other months where she has the saddler, physio, jabs, dentist etc. I spend more.

You'd also want a back up fund. Some vet practices don't accept payment from insurers and want it up front. My mare's tooth removal was £1,800. This was the same time I was doing up my house and shortly after my cat needed emergency treatment which was £1,600. You need to make sure you have a contingency fund/access to a credit card etc and do not spread yourself too thin.

These are all things you don't have to think about as a sharer! Can be a big overwhelming shock transferring to ownership so threads like this are a great way of getting all your facts together before taking the plunge!

 

[Amy101985]

Just because you see people keeping horses on a shoe string doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Don't get me wrong it works for some but not for me.

I know people that have had to sell a saddle pad just to pay for the next hay bill, or don't get regular saddle fitter out because they can't afford it. To me that is neither right for the horse or an enjoyable experience for the owner! But each to their own.

Costs also fluctuate wildly depending on the type of horse/pony you go for. I like native ponies that live on fresh air, can be barefoot, rugless etc. I buy a bag of oat straw chaff for £10 and it lasts me 6 months. Others with flashier types can spend multiple times that in just a month. My mare is barefoot and has a trim every 6 weeks which costs £25. 4 shoes round here (Surrey) costs £80.

I do very similar to AandK above. I set aside £500 a month (my livery is £175 in Surrey so cheaper than you are quoted but mine is very cheap for the area). Some months (summer) where I use less hay I spend less and other months where she has the saddler, physio, jabs, dentist etc. I spend more.

You'd also want a back up fund. Some vet practices don't accept payment from insurers and want it up front. My mare's tooth removal was £1,800. This was the same time I was doing up my house and shortly after my cat needed emergency treatment which was £1,600. You need to make sure you have a contingency fund/access to a credit card etc and do not spread yourself too thin.

These are all things you don't have to think about as a sharer! Can be a big overwhelming shock transferring to ownership so threads like this are a great way of getting all your facts together before taking the plunge!

This is fantastic advice! I had been thinking about horses more in terms of personality and safety but it is also important to consider the expenses related to certain breeds! I had been thinking about a cob or native as well, less rugs and hard feed to worry about. My share was shod on front with pads and that was £65 and was on shavings as he ate the straw and I've always been aware that shavings probably add another £40 to your monthly pay out, plus if you deep litter it just stinks and I don't really like it.

I've been trying to find DIY yards today and I think round my area (Essex, Epping and surrounding) they are mostly private yards which are hard to find prices for. For example i have seen full livery for approx £500 per month with feed, beddings etc and that seems cheaper than DIY with the extra costs of having to buy everything yourself. Plus I do work from home but it is full time, so I have to consider getting up at 6am to do the jobs and go again before/after dinner which is a huge commitment. Tbh it sounds like full livery would be a better deal all round but it's still expensive.

I do have money saved up for the initial outlay and I have well over £500 saved at the end of each month so I'd still have money left over for the unforeseen, but I wonder if I should wait until later life to buy due to the inevitable expenses of buying a house, kids etc in the next few years which could be the point that the whole shoe string problem occurs, which I wouldn't want.

Perhaps I will find a full loan by word of mouth, I think that is the ideal scenario for me as I can send them back if things don't work out and I don't have to be in excess of £8k before I even get started.

 

[IrishMilo]

Be prepared to spend your entire disposable income. If you'd be happy with that then go for it.

There's really no way to do horses on the cheap unless you have a barebones field and never pay out for saddle, teeth, vet, physio, insurance, lessons etc. Don't forget to add on the fuel cost of going twice a day, or the cost of paying for the horse to be sorted.

£260 a month, hay inc DIY.
£80 on top of that for bring in and turn out services every day.
£50 a month for shavings.
£25 for a trim
£10 for a bag of nuts.
£150 fuel.

And then because horse was an idiot in the field & had health problems, anything from £250 - £800 for a vet bill every couple of months (he wasn't insured).

Add to that dentist (£65), physio (£50) and any lessons/comps you might want to do, and I reckon you'd be happier with another share!

 

[swfy03]

I won't comment on the owning side of things, but in your original post you ask whether others have had a better experience of sharing - 100% yes! I feel for you as I've also had a bit of a turbulent sharing experience recently, but in the past I have had some really fantastic experiences with lovely horses and owners. I had one particularly share that lasted several years with a really fun pony and his owner would take me out and about to shows, clinics, xc schooling etc. I loved him to bits and developed a lovely friendship with his owner. I only ended the share when I had to move away. I do think shares are harder to find at the moment, but I just wanted to say if you don't feel it's the right time to own don't give up on the idea of another share, it just might take some time to find a horse (and owner) that's right for you.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

That sounds like a sensible option - when you do come to buy, don't rule out full livery. My daughter's horse is now on full livery and while it is a bit more expensive frankly it's worth it both from the perspective of being able to budget as I know exactly what's coming out each month but also not having to worry about who'll look after the horse if we can't get there for any reason, have I remembered to order hay just before a bank holiday etc

 

[splashgirl45]

if you are in epping area there are a few livery yards around there. i know there is woodredon and harolds park farm, there used to be some in the chingford area as well. and there are some in hertfordshire which isnt that far away... why not contact somewhere like epping forest riders association or a local riding club group to see if anyone knows of a livery yard or a horse for loan. the area you are in is pretty expensive for livery, i have friends in that area and know they pay alot for livery..owning a horse is why i still have a mortgage at the ripe old age of 74, my horses never went without, they always had the best of everything and it was me that didnt so you need to be aware that you will always be broke if you arent on a good salary. if you want to get on the housing ladder i would say do not buy a horse!!!!

 

[Wishfilly]

Thank you for such a detailed response. I do have money to pay for the initial outlay, I've seen a few very safe and sensible horses for approx £5-6k as you have said and it has definitely gone up. I'm not sure how much a vetting costs. I'd probably also want to take someone experienced with me like my instructor so I'd have to pay her too. But it is the ongoing costs that worry me as that is the long term commitment and full loaning may be the solution but I have heard they are difficult to find and it is inevitably going to end at some point which could be stressful as you have said.

I do think £280 is a lot for DIY livery and that is no bedding or hay, just the stable and facilities. It's the yard my share was on and it does seem that it was only the indoor school that made it worth it. You don't have to pay for flood lights, hire jumps or anything like that and it does have a cross country course that is free to use but the hacking is rubbish so it's pretty much the only place you can ride which seems like a poor compromise to me unless you want to gallop.

Budget about £300-400 for a 5 star vetting, and budget for at least one failed vetting- if that doesn't happen then you have some spare cash which is great, but nearly everyone I know who has bought a horse recently(ish) has had at least one fail the vet.

Like I say, I earn less than you and I make it work, but obviously it can be stressful, and I do at least have a job I know will be pretty secure long term. Although obviously owning is a long term commitment, provided you buy something nice, there is no reason you can't sell or loan the horse yourself in the future.

Why not look at other DIY options locally and see how they compare? Don't rule out chatting to people with small private yards- if they are weird about you ringing up and asking the price, then you know they aren't suitable anyway.

Equally for a first horse, full or part livery can be a good option, and £500 for full won't be that much more than DIY with bedding/hay on top BUT find out how much bedding etc is included in full, if it's e.g. only one bag of shavings a week, this may not be enough.

 

[Chianti]

Horses cost time and money. Every owner has to decide where on that sliding scale they want to be. If you do DIY to save money then you spend time and petrol travelling to the yard twice a day. In winter it can feel like you live at the yard. You sound like you are at a stage in life where you may need your salary for other things. I think if I were you I'd look for another share. Apart from Facebook you could try local livery yards to see if anyone needs a share. Would the owner of your current share give you a reference?

 

[Amy101985]

J

Horses cost time and money. Every owner has to decide where on that sliding scale they want to be. If you do DIY to save money then you spend time and petrol travelling to the yard twice a day. In winter it can feel like you live at the yard. You sound like you are at a stage in life where you may need your salary for other things. I think if I were you I'd look for another share. Apart from Facebook you could try local livery yards to see if anyone needs a share. Would the owner of your current share give you a reference?

I'd hope she would, I didn't fall out with her when my share ended! Luckily someone from the same yard has allowed me to borrow her horse once a week for my lessons with my current trainer but she's not suitable for a full share as naughty hacking. So that gives something to ride until I find another share and it's good to ride different horses! I agree with you that sharing is flexible in terms of time and money so probably is the best option, it's just finding one that's right that takes time

 

[chaps89]

The other thing to think about with having your own is that if they break you still have pretty much all the expense (possibly more if there's vet fees, fancy shoes, physios, box rest etc), all of the work (if you're on DIY) and none of the riding bit. Don't get me wrong, it's not all about riding but that's where a share has it's benefits!
I'm south east, but Surrey, and whilst I'd say £280 is on the more expensive side for livery, more prices are moving that way. There can often be smaller/less fancy yards available for less if you can find them but not always.
The other thing to consider for a first horse is having a good supportive yard with knowledgeable yard owner/manager.
It's also worth remembering that when it comes to budgeting for bedding/hay, if you have to keep in a lot for any reason (bad weather, box rest etc) you'll use more of it.
Basically there's always unexpected costs with horses! It is doable but it does mean other sacrifices (buying a house, holidays, nights out, new clothes etc)
But equally there is nothing to beat your own horse really.