Buying a headshaker .. from a dealer.... unwittitingly!

[cluedo]

It seems I have brought a headshaker from a dealer. Horse was vetted in the evening because dealer wanted it rushed through and it was the only time the vet could do it, so headshaking not seen. First week horse a bit unsettled, then turned away for two weeks whilst rider on holiday. Immediately headshook when came back into work. Dealer told that horse headshaking and wanted to return horse under one month warranty. He said no chance!!

Anyone been in a similar situation and did they manage to recoup monies or return horse?

Vet said to me that he was sorry and he shouldn't have vetted in the evening and he wouldn't do it again!

PM if you'd prefer. Advice very gratefully received.

 

[mtj]

phone trading standards - horse has to be fit for purpose

 

[martlin]

Does it headshake only in work?

Sorry, not much help with the dealer issue... you could have a case though against the vet?
All I can say is that I would have taken it back, especially if given the warranty.

 

[Kayfm]

i purchased a lovely older roan mare for my daughter. She was fab when we tried her, just what we were looking for. The woman delivered her (very nice family). i made the mistake of not running her up before excepting her. we put her in the stable and went to lunge her later in the afternoon. She was lame. has been lame ever since (march 7th) the previous owners want nothing to do with it and said she cannot take her back. i have had her x rays - all looks good. vet said soft tissue damage. No improvement as of today. I have no funds to take up legal proceedings.

 

[lauraandjack]

Remember that a vetting will only pick up things that are present at the time.

If the horse doesn't display head shaking during the vetting, how is the vet supposed to know it does it?

We're not psychic you know! (although admittedly it would be a helpful skill!)

 

[flyingfeet]

Headshaking should show in the evening, as the full days pollen would have been around

My first question is - are you sure its a headshaker? By that i mean headshaking due to an allergic reaction to pollen and irritants.

A quick way to test is if your horse headshakes in a headcollar on the lunge.

Then you are into difficulties, as with all allergen based problems, they can not show in certain areas.

However many people mistake the horse throwing its head around in reaction to rider / bridle / bit. This is not headshaking, this can be sorted out and would not be anything you could take back under 'warranty' per se.

 

[martlin]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember that a vetting will only pick up things that are present at the time.

If the horse doesn't display head shaking during the vetting, how is the vet supposed to know it does it?

We're not psychic you know! (although admittedly it would be a helpful skill!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I know, it just strikes me as odd that the vet admitted he/she shouldn't have vetted in the evening and apologised

Anyway, it's a rather strange headshaker that does it only in work and not in the evenings

maybe just don't ride in office hours?

More seriously though, I would as a first port of call check the teeth.

 

[Kenzo]

A change in enviroment will set off a headshaker, even something as simple as a woodchip school.
When you viewed the horse and tried it before the vetting, was there no signs then? different fields and bushes will also bring it on, it may be that where the horse was kept and worked that the above didnt effect it, also if the dealer has only had the horse in for a short time which is usually the case, a change in the weather will of changed the pollens so they might not off been aware in which case the vet and the dealer would of been none the wiser.

 

[cluedo]

Everything checked and triple checked ... its a headshaker. He tics in field, stable, and headshakes on lunge in headcollar, hacking, schooling, jumping. Vet has confirmed classic headshaker. Treated its back but no its def doing it at all times now.

Horse sold for a fair amount of money as potential top class eventer - which he is if he didn't headshake!

 

[Bowen4Horses]

[ QUOTE ]
A change in enviroment will set off a headshaker, even something as simple as a woodchip school.
When you viewed the horse and tried it before the vetting, was there no signs then? different fields and bushes will also bring it on, it may be that where the horse was kept and worked that the above didnt effect it, also if the dealer has only had the horse in for a short time which is usually the case, a change in the weather will of changed the pollens so they might not off been aware in which case the vet and the dealer would of been none the wiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto this... i bought a horse once that headshook with previous owners... but not with me (as she had been turned out next to that yellow rape stuff previously, whereas we don't have any of it near us).

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

[ QUOTE ]
Headshaking should show in the evening, as the full days pollen would have been around

My first question is - are you sure its a headshaker? By that i mean headshaking due to an allergic reaction to pollen and irritants.


[/ QUOTE ]

Headshaking can be caused by a number of factors - not just pollen. My old boy used to do it in bright sunlight - which would not show up headshaking in the evening.
Try buying a riding mask with nosenet - it cleared up my old boys headshaking to nearly nothing. It will reduce the effect of the 3 most common causes of headshaking - pollen, flies and sunlight.

 

[Kenzo]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything checked and triple checked ... its a headshaker. He tics in field, stable, and headshakes on lunge in headcollar, hacking, schooling, jumping. Vet has confirmed classic headshaker. Treated its back but no its def doing it at all times now.

Horse sold for a fair amount of money as potential top class eventer - which he is if he didn't headshake!

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm not great news that, do you know how long they owned the horse before putting it up for sale or can you find out about the horses previous owners to see if the horse has a history of headshaking? unless you can prove that the horse was suffering from the condition while the dealer had the horse there is not much you can do really.

Thing is headshaking moves in mysterious ways, it rears it' ugly head only at certain times of the year and sometimes only certain years, so its a hard thing to pin on them if you know what I mean (even if they where aware of it) apparently comes and goes in 7 year cycles like hay fever, maybe that is why the horse has never been evented to far because of this.

Was the horses blood tested when the vetting was done?
I know you say top class eventer but has the horse competed at all up until now?

 

[Loubiepoo]

Really sorry to hear your misfortune. I'm glad you've had the horse checked out and got a confirmed diagnosis cause so many people incorrectly think they have a 'headshaker' when really its a tack, tooth or back problem. The problem you have (as I did) is that when you try the horse it may not necessarily headshake, nor may it shake when its being vetted, whether it be day or night time. Often a change in enviroment, stress or other unknown factor can trigger headshaking. It is also a condition that can mysteriously develop at any point during a horses life for no particular reason. The problem you will have is getting the dealer to admit he knew the horse was a headshaker because they simply could say it never showed any symptoms when it was with them. I'm sorry the outlook doesn't look great for you, but take heart in the fact that with some careful management and investigations by your vet the symptoms can be reduced and the problem managed somewhat.

 

[hoggedmane]

I have just taken a dealer to court and won because they didn't honour their written warranty . I have pmd you

 

[pipper]

just to add my twopennyworth - my pony only headshakes on hacks at certain times of year - he is just stopping it now - it lasts about a month - when all the blossom is out on the trees. This is just a long shot but maybe in a couple of weeks it may ease off - fingers crossed for you.

 

[Kenzo]

[ QUOTE ]
just to add my twopennyworth - my pony only headshakes on hacks at certain times of year - he is just stopping it now - it lasts about a month - when all the blossom is out on the trees. This is just a long shot but maybe in a couple of weeks it may ease off - fingers crossed for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that is true, so there is hope and ways to manage it also so all is not totally lost but I obviously it must be very gutting if you have paid a substantial amount of money for a potential eventer, in which case it would not really be fit for the purpose.

I'd do some serious digging around and contact an equine solicitor should you not want to mange the headshaking, if they have sold the horse knowing full well of the problem then they should be brought to justice and you should have your money back, meanwhile I'd put closure on this post and see what info you can find out before they cotton on to it.

Good luck.

 

[punk]

I have a friend who bought a youngster (4) from a dealer last Autumn.

It has started to headshake (May) and friend rang dealer who immediately offered to take it back - 8 months after selling it!!!!!!!!!!!

However, it was bought by a very good rider who will have brought it on in leaps and bounds since Oct!!!!!!

Maybe he is not stupid!

 

[orkanmylove]

I have a horse who events to BE novice at the moment has points and headshakes wears a nosenet and it works wonders his is down to pollen so very like a human hayfever suffer,dont right him off there are ways round it and like people have said it can be made worst place to place.

 

[cluedo]

Thanks for all the replies. I have tried nosenets, masks, nostrilvet, global herbs shakefree, chiro, manipulation under sedation, the list goes on and on.

Vet is going to scope guttural pouch Friday but thinks he will turn out to be an idiopathic headshaker with no known cause as he has not responded to masks, nets etc.

I brought horse last June and dealer refused to take it back despite reporting it within time period. I then had him treated by vet and by the time the treatment finished he was fine. He competed in Ireland prior to me buying him and won 6 out of 9 showjumping competitions with a pro rider. Since December he has won every class he has entered and we had the stamp on the envelope to register him BE this year. Then Bank Holiday weekend he started headshaking and its terrible. Vet says no pain in neck, or back that can be found.

So, I think we can prove he is a headshaker for certain.

Guy I brought him from is a professional showjump rider over here and horse wasn't cheap!

 

[ecrozier]

May have misunderstood, but I think if you have had him a year you will very much struggle to get dealer to take him back now....as you have had him that long part of the time without any issues then I think you would struggle to prove that the dealer knew - or even that he did headshake back then? Especially as you have had such good results with him so far?
What treatment worked before? Might it be that it is a pollen that appears at the particular times of year?

 

[cluedo]

We have all the emails and videos of him headshaking and a vets opinion three weeks after purchase and dealer came to see him and admitted he was doing it. He just refused to do anything about it. Between August and December he was not ridden, then December it stopped so we carried on hoping he wasn't a headshaker, and all his results are December till now (when headshaking abates) and come headshaking time he does it again.

We got his results from ireland and he was winning everything and suddenly stopped in July! Somehow don't think it was a coincidence.

Dealer only had him a couple of weeks and don't think he did much with him.

 

[scally]

[ QUOTE ]
He competed in Ireland prior to me buying him and won 6 out of 9 showjumping competitions with a pro rider. Since December he has won every class he has entered
Guy I brought him from is a professional showjump rider over here and horse wasn't cheap!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this has ended your case against the dealer, he was proven when you bought him, you have since proved he does the job you bought him for and the dealer will quote this in court. You have also had him a year if he was that bad, you should have sent him back immediately and rejected him as unfit for purpose, you competing him has proved him fit for purpose, judges in court see the facts in front of them, not seasons when we wish to compete or not. I think you have left this far to long to now reject the horse.

 

[Tnavas]

A dealer is a commercial entity so should be covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act!

Goods (horse) should be suitable for the purpose for which they have been bought (eventing). Head shaker is not suitable as an event horse.

I think you need to seek legal advice - you may find a letter from a solicitor will have a suitable effect.