Buying a TB from the sales?

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Shiraz

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I've been asked through a friend of a friend how you go about buying a TB/ex racer through the sales. I don't have a scoobe but figured some of you will! From what I can gather the girl looking has never been to a sale before, is a confident rider and looking for a project. She doesn't have a lot of capital as just finishing uni and wants a TB so is seriously considering going to the sales.

1) What sales are there, where are they, what time of year are they and what type of horses do you get at the sales (are some mostly youngsters/some older etc)?
2) Can you get vettings done or do they come with some sort of soundness guarantee? Are vices declared?
3) Can you see them moving, trotted up etc?
4) What should you look out for?
5) What things should you make sure to ask?
6) Do you get a chance to speak to owner/trainer or do you have to seek them out? Will there usually be grooms that know the horses there?
7) What are the average sort of prices?
8) Can you buy out side the ring/before the horse goes through the ring? Do you register and get a number when you are there?
9) If you bid on a horse or buy outside the ring what happens, do you pay in cash to owner/trainer or is it done through the market? Do you get a receipt and is there any guarantee if the sound viceless horse you buy gets home and cribs/weaves/box walks etc and goes on 3 legs?

I think that's everything she asked but if I've missed out something obvious or you have any helpful words of wisdom please share! Thank you
grin.gif
 
i don't know much, not having had the nerve to do it yet, but this is the little bit i do know, in case no-one else answers!
you have to have your money ready up front (banker's draft, or cash i guess) and register it with the auctioneers i think, so they know you are a bona fide bidder.
you can see them moving, trotted up etc i think.
at the breeze-up sales you can see them gallop, i've been told.
i think there's usually a groom with them... might need to slip him/her £10 or so to get a full report perhaps?
i'd look for very clean legs (have a good feel), a good walk, symmetry, a good frame, really nice temperament obv.
anything with very fancy breeding will prob have a stiff pricetag!
you can get catalogues beforehand so you can look up its racing history etc.
prices from very low to sky's the limit. (a friend got a lovely ex-racer, 16.2 bay geld, for free, because the owner and trainer were so relieved he was going to a good home.)
another friend used to go and buy one or two on first day of sales, take them home, stick a saddle straight on, see if they were basically workable-with or lunatics... if the latter, take them straight back the next day and put them back in the sale.
 
I'll put my oar in as well as work in the racing industry, haven't actually bought from a sale myself though so some of it may not be totally spot on:

1) Many and various is the only answer to this. Most well known are Tattersalls in Nkt, Doncaster Blookdstock Sales, Ascot Sales (where the cheaper end of the market is). All have different sales during the year for youndstock, breeding stock, horses in training etc. The HIT sales are where you will find the bargains as they are ususally full of animals where the owner is looking to cut their losses!
2) There will always be vets on site and vettings can be arranged at the sale. Box walking/cribbing/weving have to be declared, if hasn't been declared and can be proved to have any of the above after the sale the animal can be returned for full refund. No soundness guarantees!
3) You can ask for the horse to be shown to you and they will walk it up and down and stand it up for you. Sounds bizarre but you are unlikely to have them trotted up, especially at Tatts. You are assumed to purchase on the basis of the walk and conformation.
4) Any sign of previous problems, puffiness of tendons most obvious, signs of kaolin on legs, that sort of thing. Be aware that most trainers/owners will make sure any signs have gone before sending to the sales though. Checking the racing record via Racing Post website will give you a pretty good insight as well, especially long spells between runs etc that will indicate problems.
5) Be aware that a sig no of horses will be sent to an agent to sell and the grooms may have only met the horse for the first time when they get to the sale so info may be limited from the grooms. Worth asking how it is to do in the box though and it is worth asking if they are aware of any previous problems, not everyone is a crook.
6) See 5, horses are sold by the trainer quite often too so perfectly possible to speak to them and the groom will obviously know the horse well in this case. To be honest, the trainer is likely to know considerably more than the owner!
7) All sales have a minimum price, depends on the quality of the sale what it is, usually around the 500 - 800 gns mark. Prices will entirely depend on the type of sale you are at.
8&9) Unlikely you will be able to buy out of the ring before the sale but horses that go through the ring unsold are fair game. You will need to register with the auctioneers before hand (this is the bit I am not totally au fait with) and they may need bank references/money lodged. If buying out of the ring the transaction still needs to go through the auctioneers and they have a special form for it. You will be given a docket in the ring if you are the final bidder and you take that to the sales office and sign off the transaction. You will have a certain no of days to settle the account. Depending on which sale you go to you may have to pay the auctioneers commission on top so check the small print int he catalogue beforehand. Most sales have their terms on their website and the catlogues are on line.

Sorry that is huge, main suggestion would be to go to a sale at least once before actually purchasing. I do repeat though that there is no guarantee that you will get a sound horse, vetting may be a very good idea.
 
1} Ascot, doncaster,tattersalls. anything from foals to mares in foal also older horses .. sales are most of the year round.
2} vices like cribbing should be declared in the catalogue.can be vet checked, but that is usally for scoping young horses.
3} some older horses are shown under saddle, just walk and trot, most of the time you muyst find the horse and ask to see it. yearlings are "breezed" up the gallops.
4} depends what you want the horse to do.
5] see above
6} owner, trainers not usually about and some grooms are
just employed for the sales so won't necessarily know the
horse.
7} the catalogue will state the minimum bid, most sell in guinnes soz for spelling
8] sometimes if they don't sell in the ring
9} you take pot luck

hope this helps
 
I've bought a few from the sales and generally had some very nice sorts but you do need a good eye and be able to make a quick judgement as there are a lot of horses to look at in a short space of time.

Just to add to the above, I dont think all can be vetted, depends on whetehr they are being sold as seen or subject to vet exam. Doncaster and Ascot and Tattersalls all print their terms and conditions in the front of their catalogues
 
I have been to Ascot Sales selling Horses In Training for the trainer I used to work for a couple of times so I know a little about that.

Horses can be declared in the catalogue as sound or sold as seen. Sold as seen carries no warranties for vices etc. If a horse is sold as sound then it cannot have any vices and cannot be lame. There is a vet at the sales who can for a set fee do a short vetting of the horse after you have outbid everyone else. If the horse fails it is then set back through the ring. You then have 24 hours after purchasing the horse to take it home and have a full vetting on it and look out for any vices. After the 24 hours is up it is tought luck. (The vetting options and 24 hour part are only for horses sold as sound)

The horses I sold I was allowed to show off in the stable and lead at walk and trot to show to pertential customers. I was also allowed to talk about the horses. (The ones I took were genuinely good to do and ride so no prob!)

Some horses are entered into the catalogue with a reserve. This is the price that you will be looking to pay as a minimum although if there is a bid near it the auctioneer can allow the seller to drop if he wants. Other horses that have no reserve are sold to the highest bidder. 2 of the ones I took sold for £300 approx. One of the was a real sweety only 3 but cribbed and wasn't very fast.

I can suggest googling Bloodstock sales as most of the sales have their own websites and you can find out a lot more information from them.

Good luck with your friends shopping! I am looking forward to the day when I can afford my own again as I will be straight off to the sales :-)
 
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