Buying advice - wind noise and splint?

[ALFF]

Hello all

I'm looking at an Irish gelding just turned 7 years old, lovely temperament, competed up to 1.25m. He's about 16.2-16.3hh and is for sale with a reputable dealer.

I've been for first viewing yesterday and he rides very sound, if anything leaning a bit on the forehand but I am happy to perfect his carriage. I watched him jump and he is calm and correct. But he does a little wind noise in canter and has a hard (looks old) small splint on right front leg. He's got a 10k price tag but the seller thinks 8k is likely to be accepted.

Now. Is this worth vetting with x-rays or best to walk away? Also, would insurance reject him for the bits above?

I'm thorn as the issues may be only cosmetic but also may not be. Presently he seems a happy, sane and sound horse but I am no vet...

Any thoughts would be so appreciated, I am not new to riding but I am new to buying I really like this horse!

Thank you
Ana

 

[Polos Mum]

I would arrange for a second viewing and maybe take someone with you to video the noise and share it with your vet to get an initial (cheaper!) view.

I would also jump him yourself (professional dealers can ride amazingly well to make a horse look lovely for them that might not be so easy for you!).

Insurance won't reject him - but will exclude those things.
Do you intend to keep him or sell him on eventually - if ultimately for resale then probably a no. Will you be doing hard / fast work that the wind could become an issue (hunting / eventing) if not then less of an issue potentially.

Is he local enough to have him vetted by someone you trust? If so, and you like him as much on second viewing, I'd ask the vet to look at wind and splint first and stop the vetting if they aren't happy with those things.

IMHO in the current (mad) market - £8k for what you have described above is pretty cheap - so I would have eyes wide open.

I had a lovely horse who had a tie back operation for his wind and it never caused a problem at all.
I also bought one with clean legs who threw a splint running around within his mates in the field on hard ground - so neither would be deal breakers for me.

 

[IrishMilo]

I wouldn't be worried about the splint but the wind issue would put me off. I've had a few with COPD and one who had a tie back from racing and they all caused serious issues.

 

[eggs]

It doesn't sound like the splint would be an issue.

I bought a big horse (17.1 hh) for my novice husband who made a noise. I had him vetted and asked the vet specifically for their thoughts on the noise and whether to go down the Hobday route. Her advice was that unless my husband was planning on jumping him around Badminton that it shouldn't be an issue !

If you like the horse and have jumped him yourself then I would get a vetting.

 

[Leandy]

What is his history? Does he have a verifiable record of "competing up to 1.25m" which shows that he has made consistent progress over the last couple of years? If there are gaps in the record, ask why. Is he consistently jumping clear in competition? If not are the faults due to poles down (forgiveable so long as not excessive) or refusals (cause for concern). Why did you not jump him yourself? If the horse is actually doing now what you want it to successfully and otherwise what you are looking for, then I would not be immediately concerned about wind noise or a small, cold splint. The latter is very unlikely a problem at all, and very common. Wind noise is not so common and would need to be assessed by your vet but if I liked the horse and it was what I wanted and well priced would not put me off proceeding to vetting although depending what you find out, it might mean you should walk away. You many need to pay for more than the usual investigations to look at the wind noise (or try to persuade the seller to do so). I also think this horse sounds cheap so go in with your eyes open, but it could be due to the wind issue alone. I would always see it at least once more and you would be advised to take someone more experienced in assessing horses for purchase and for their potential (if you have ambitions to progress from where the horse is now). See, or at the very least ask about, it doing everything you want it to do - what is it like to handle, in the stable, to load, to shoe, to hack, at competitions etc. Do you have videos of it doing all or any of those things? Why did you not jump it yourself? An insurance company will make exclusions depending on the findings from the vetting. They will certainly exclude anything related to the wind and so any surgical procedure it may need for that would not be covered.

 

[GreyDot]

Definitey get him vetted (and as above - have a jump of him yourself at a second viewing). I am amazed at his price for a just turned 7 year old gelding who can jump.

 

[ycbm]

Cold hard splint no worries. I would plan to need a tieback at some point in a horse of that size already making a noise, but if the price was right and I really liked the horse, that wouldn't worry me overly.
.

 

[ALFF]

You are all absolute stars, thank you

I've rang a local equine hospital to get a quote for a wind op / tieback just to give me an idea of what might come my way in terms of expense if needed in the future, and that will help me decide.

I didn't jump him because I'm a bit rusty (done mainly dressage but now wanting to get back to jumping) but will do on the second viewing if he seems as sane as on the first viewing.

I will also be hacking him and being a bit more thorough this time around. I watched him get untacked, washed, groomed, he's chilled. The yard staff weren't careful around him, moved things around him, he didn't bat an eyelid.

He stands for the block and isn't looky, seems willing to work (tried one before that spooked just cause they changed the jumps around in the arena!). He also found the jumps with the rider very easy, wasn't struggling or sweating much - but I will be very alert in the second viewing.

Also a note that he had a waterford on which is a pretty harsh bit but I feel I could educate him a bit on the contact - so long as he's sane and works with me.

Thanks
Ana

 

[Ratface]

Can you get any previous history on this horse?
I'd be inclined to go right back, if possible, to his birth and find out as much as possible about where he came from, who's owned him and what they did with him. Can you get any information on his dam and/or sire?
His splint wouldn't particularly worry me, if he is currently sound. I would be more concerned about his wind.
Please ensure that the examining veterinarian takes blood samples and records the results on her/his report.

 

[catembi]

I have bought two recently with splints. Both 5 stage vetted with different vets. Each time the splint was noted but pronounced cold, hard and of no consequence. I also bought one which threw a splint as a 4 yo which was a pain at the time as I wanted to crack on, but eventually it went cold, hard and was of no further trouble.

 

[onemoretime]

Can you get any previous history on this horse?
I'd be inclined to go right back, if possible, to his birth and find out as much as possible about where he came from, who's owned him and what they did with him. Can you get any information on his dam and/or sire?
His splint wouldn't particularly worry me, if he is currently sound. I would be more concerned about his wind.
Please ensure that the examining veterinarian takes blood samples and records the results on her/his report.

Agree with this. Are you able to look at the passport and if possible photo the previous owners and perhaps contact them. The blood should be stored for 6 months and can be run at any time within the 6 months at your cost.

 

[ALFF]

Agree with this. Are you able to look at the passport and if possible photo the previous owners and perhaps contact them. The blood should be stored for 6 months and can be run at any time within the 6 months at your cost.

I saw the passport on first viewing - the seller is happy for me to contact the owner but asked if I could do the second viewing first to confirm I am interested. I also noticed in the passport what vet the horse has and will be asking the owner to speak to them prior to any vetting. Hopefully they won't mind

From what I am hearing it sounds like there is no point to X-rays but possible there is a point to a wind test as a vetting add on. Tomorrow also getting a quote for this

 

[blitznbobs]

My grand prix horse (dressage) made a noise — never held him back he was sound til he was 26 — quite simply the best horse i have ever owned. Unless i was jumoing badminton or racing i doubt it would put
Me off

 

[Bellaboo18]

The thing that jumps out at me is he's 8k and has competed up to 1.25, so what's the catch? Even with his wind and splint I'd say he'd be worth more than that(?) A cold, hard splint wouldn't bother me. His wind, I'd have to hear and get an opinion on.

 

[TheMule]

A 7yr old competing in 1.25 classes is not a 10k horse unless for a very good reason! It's certainly not a 10k horse if it's sane, sound and suitable for someone nervous to get on and jump

 

[ALFF]

The reason for sale was that it belongs to a 13 yo girl who was coming off ponies and it was too much horse for her (frankly agree, who got her that horse I do not know). The seller said he's never had any major issues and is a very sounds horse. I picked and checked his feet and he seems to have good ones too. If anything a bit of a long back?

But I am getting that it sounds quite good to be true so I better be cautious. Trying to think with my head because he was so lovely I could have brought him home straight away!

 

[MagicMelon]

A 7yr old competing in 1.25 classes is not a 10k horse unless for a very good reason! It's certainly not a 10k horse if it's sane, sound and suitable for someone nervous to get on and jump

The first thing that popped in my head as I read that too! There's something wrong here, especially if they'd take £8k. Current market too which is crazy prices? £8k for a 7yo jumping 1.25 classes?? And he's just a bit much for a 13yo girl... even if that were the case, that wouldnt make him cheap, loads of people would understand that reason. Somethings very wrong, Id walk away.

 

[Bellaboo18]

The reason for sale was that it belongs to a 13 yo girl who was coming off ponies and it was too much horse for her (frankly agree, who got her that horse I do not know). The seller said he's never had any major issues and is a very sounds horse. I picked and checked his feet and he seems to have good ones too. If anything a bit of a long back?

But I am getting that it sounds quite good to be true so I better be cautious. Trying to think with my head because he was so lovely I could have brought him home straight away!

Have you looked up his competition record?

 

[irishdraft]

I also think that 8k sounds extremely cheap in the current horse market . The splint doesn't sound like a problem but the wind might be .

 

[Lucky Snowball]

The wind and splint I'd definitely take a chance on. Discuss with the vet.
At 8k the horse could be sold on as a light hack without losing too much money.

 

[Melody Grey]

The splint wouldn’t worry me, the wind might depending on how severe/ what the vet thought.

Seems too cheap though. I’m making a lot of assumptions here, but if it’s only 7, the current owner can’t have had it that long, so must have paid good money for it- presumably more than its being offered for. If the problem is that it’s been bought inappropriately for a teenager, I can’t see why the vendor would be prepared to take a hit on it?

makes me wonder if there’s more doing on. Definitely eyes wide open I think OP if you choose to proceed.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

It depends on how wealthy the seller is and how much they just want to move on. I have known sellers charge much less than they could for a horse that their child hasn't gelled with and they just don't want the hassle of keeping the horse any more so it was up for sale at a similar price at a similar age and with a similar (verified) history. The horse took a few months to settle in its new home (and is definitely not a novice ride) but is now doing fabulously with new rider. Frankly the seller was so wealthy they could have given the horse away and not noticed ...

 

[Polos Mum]

I think the OP said it was from a well regarded dealer - they are not typically in business long if they sell good horses for vastly less than they are worth ......................

 

[SusieT]

Why is he with a dealer? Why is he quiet? You need to try him away from the premises e.g. hire an arena to see what he will really be like.
If you're too nervous to jump why are you buying a 1.25 schoolmaster (in my experience dealers selling horses that have jumped 1.25m to nervous or novice riders often in three months you see the rider completely overhorsed. He may not be but this is a story that I hear so often - bought a good jumper from a dealer, quiet when I tried him, when I got him home was a raging lunatic as actually sportier than I could manage and/or lame and or/ not sound in wind and /or drugged - so just giving you the bleak experienced picture. He may be an actual superstar.

 

[ihatework]

A 7yr old competing in 1.25 classes is not a 10k horse unless for a very good reason! It's certainly not a 10k horse if it's sane, sound and suitable for someone nervous to get on and jump

This in spades.
Do some good digging.

 

[ALFF]

An update for yall.

I have managed to locate this horses record on the Irish Sport Horse register, as well as his competition record in Ireland where he was until October last year. He did jump that height and all that seems true. I did also find that he had a brief period of grass rest in early 2021 but reappeared in photos around May 2021 looking healthy and well, jumping and working on flat. No problem there.

I have also asked to run a wind test / dynamic endoscopy on the horse prior to vetting and paying the deposit, and both the seller and the owner are allowing this without objection.
I have selected a vet that is certain to be different from the seller's.

Now. The name listed for the horse's owner is more of a surprise. I located this guy on facebook (detective me) and asked about the horse. He told me the horse was sold last October in sales and doesn't know how he ended in England or anything, sounds like a big sale type thing.

I am now puzzled as to why the horse's passport has this man as the legal owner if the horse has been sold last October. Any reasons I am missing for this to be outdated?

All other details of the horse are matching the ISH register. Just the owner is off. There is also no competition record for this horse in Ireland from October last year onwards, and also couldn't find one on BSJA. This doesn't sound too off the story that he was too much for a teen girl who probably couldn't compete then.

 

[HashRouge]

An update for yall.

I have managed to locate this horses record on the Irish Sport Horse register, as well as his competition record in Ireland where he was until October last year. He did jump that height and all that seems true. I did also find that he had a brief period of grass rest in early 2021 but reappeared in photos around May 2021 looking healthy and well, jumping and working on flat. No problem there.

I have also asked to run a wind test / dynamic endoscopy on the horse prior to vetting and paying the deposit, and both the seller and the owner are allowing this without objection.
I have selected a vet that is certain to be different from the seller's.

Now. The name listed for the horse's owner is more of a surprise. I located this guy on facebook (detective me) and asked about the horse. He told me the horse was sold last October in sales and doesn't know how he ended in England or anything, sounds like a big sale type thing.

I am now puzzled as to why the horse's passport has this man as the legal owner if the horse has been sold last October. Any reasons I am missing for this to be outdated?

All other details of the horse are matching the ISH register. Just the owner is off. There is also no competition record for this horse in Ireland from October last year onwards, and also couldn't find one on BSJA. This doesn't sound too off the story that he was too much for a teen girl who probably couldn't compete then.

I don't think I'd be too suspicious about the passport. I would just assume the news owners never got round to doing it. We bought my mare before passports were a thing, but she had an Arab Horse Society certificate and I'm sure it was well over a year before we got it updated with new owner details.

 

[nutjob]

If the horse came from Ireland recently it's a positive that the original passport is still available and that you can contact a previous owner. I wouldn't be worried that the current owner hasn't updated it.

On the other hand I was looking last year and a sound horse with the description you give would have been very much more expensive. A large number of them which had been shipped from Ireland had hind limb lameness, sometimes it was bilateral and could only be seen by bunny hopping in the canter. This should be picked up in the vetting but I do think the price is suspiciously low. If you can get someone to video you when you are riding him then you can look very carefully at all the paces at your own leisure which can be helpful. Good luck.

 

[ALFF]

Why is he with a dealer? Why is he quiet? You need to try him away from the premises e.g. hire an arena to see what he will really be like.
If you're too nervous to jump why are you buying a 1.25 schoolmaster (in my experience dealers selling horses that have jumped 1.25m to nervous or novice riders often in three months you see the rider completely overhorsed. He may not be but this is a story that I hear so often - bought a good jumper from a dealer, quiet when I tried him, when I got him home was a raging lunatic as actually sportier than I could manage and/or lame and or/ not sound in wind and /or drugged - so just giving you the bleak experienced picture. He may be an actual superstar.

I don't know why he is with a dealer but I'm guessing it may be for them not to be arsed with viewings and the sale process. I don't think this seller is profiting from the sale, the profit comes from sales livery probably. I have ridden for over 15 years, helped re train a sane ex race horse, done two years of elementary and medium dressage. Many falls, many many horses, just never got much ownership experience. Further back I did low level jumping which I want to go back to - hence why I want him to jump and perfecting the flatwork I'm ok with. The seller had just changed the jumps in the arena which actually spooked the first horse I tried, but didn't spook this one. I can't garantee I won't be overhorsed but I can only make a judgement on my skills and what the horse shows me.

Also if he's on sales livery I don't see how used to being there he could be- but it's good to keep my eyes open and I've certainly become more thorough with the advice received

 

[Melody Grey]

Can you find out more about the period of grass rest in 2021....just wondering if something has been medicated during this time? Could be due to weather/ lack of rider/ any amount of other things though!