Buying horses for the professional rider vs amateur?

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kit279

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I have my eye on a very nice yearling but the lady who bred him would not like him to go to a 'riding club' type buyer - which is fair enough, he is a very smart little horse and she thinks he will go far. But he is young, it's hard to tell how he will turn out in the end re. scope, attitude, soundness etc. If I buy him and he turns out to be much more talented than I am (highly probable), then I would send him to a pro rider to see what he can do.

But she raises a good point - often the amateur RC-type buyer has a bit more cash in hand than a professional. Should they not buy really nice youngsters? Would that be over-horsing themselves? I don't think horses particularly care what level they compete at but from the breeders perspective, is it very frustrating to breed top horses and then see them do BE90 for the rest of their lives? In which case, are the horses that professionals buy unsuitable for the RC-type rider?

Am just curious to see it from both points of view!
 
I think it depends why they are professionals horses rather than amateurs. If it is simply because they are super talented then I don't think it does matter. If it is because they have a sharp but competitive temperament, then they may be suited to a professional's style workload and facilities - much of the time.
 
We generally sell our horses as youngsters so it is hard to tell how they will turn out and have refused to sell to an amateur on one occasion as I believed that the horse was going to be very talented and he was also a little quirky.I didnt see the point in selling it to someone who would inevitably be over-horsed.He was sold as a weanling but knew from his temperament he was going to be a professionals horse.
This is him but he has calmed down slowly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrlLeJf2C2w
 
from a breeders POV-they need to get their name out there and they do this via their horses results, pro's are more likely to get the horses name (and thus breeder prefix) in the news.

if you thought a horse would win with an pro but possibly over face an amateur and end up bieng labelled difficult.....wouldnt you refuse to sell to the amateur too?!

can definately see both sides of this argument.
 
maybe I'm biased, but it seems to me a lot of the time, people say a horse should be for a "professionals" when what they really mean is that it's difficult!

It's fair enough and indeed quite responsible of a breeder to not want to sell a difficult horse to someone who can't handle it, but isn't there something of an assumption there that just because a horseman/ woman is not a "professional" they are not sufficiently competent. I know many riders who would not be regarded as professional in the sense of high level competition, but are still eminently competent.

On the other hand, I do take the point that breeders will want to get their names out there, and that is something they would generally achieve through a horse getting high up the competition ladder.
 
I bumped into my pony's breeder unexpectedly at a show - we had entered in the same class!

Whilst she said it was lovely to see my pony out and about she said the most important thing to her was that he had a good home and was well cared for and loved - I think that is probably the same for most breeders.

As for prefixes - I have seen that some SJ's who are sponsored by big companies change their horses name so that the company name is the prefix. I don't know if this is the case but prefixes don't seem to be so common outside the showing world - I have seen a lot of horses say in SJ or dressage, racing etc with one world names that do not have prefixes?

I can see why some breeders may prefer to sell youngsters to professionals - they might believe that a professional can give the horses the best start as starting youngsters is not easy especially if the horses is a highly spirited one.
 
I think you are spot on prince33sp4rkle.And as a breeder you have to 1)Give the horse every available chance and 2)keep a reputation for breeding quality horses.I am sure the girl that didn't get him was annoyed and upset but I am sure she wouldn't have thanked me either for selling a very spirited horse to her.I would hate for someone to lose confidence because I wanted to sell a horse and forget about the consequences.
 
But doesnt there have to be the arguement for a "quirky" horse needing one person? My horse came from a large yard, and from sone one who was unable to cope with her. We moved her to our yard with 3 horses very set routine and she has thrived. And not wanting to sound big headed as I have faults and I know of them, I seriously don't think that she would have coped mentally with going to a pro yard, and I am most definately her person and I know she gives me more than she ever would anyone else

Therefore it has to be very difficult as personally and I am not a breeder I would rather happy content horses at lower levels than unhappy horses been pushed through the levels
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrlLeJf2C2w

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Very, very nice horse Ballyshan! My son would just love another one like that as his is rising 16yo. You must be very proud to have bred that.

We have a rising 3yo to make a 128cms jumping pony - both parents JA and have won a total of c.20K - and she has "attitude" and won't go to an unexperienced home. I think you can tell which ones are "brighter" from an early age.
 
Tink101.I can understand what you are saying and I agree with you.I would rather see a happy horse we bred rather than an unhappy one and that is why it is better in my view to suss out potential customers.If horses are quirky then I would prefer if a professional had them in order to get the best out of them rather than an inexperienced person getting them and letting them get away with murder.It is hard to guage how amateur an amateur rider is and it has been said before that most good riders could get a tune out of them to a certain extent but may stumble along the way a lot more than a professional rider would.
Measels,we are very proud of him he represented Ireland at the World Championships in Lanaken Belgium in 2008 as a 5yr old and I think it was a great testamonial to his rider as he never competed as a 4yr old as he was still growing.
 
It depends on the professional or the amateur.
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I don't think it's just a case of a horse being "quirky" - that's become a catchall phrase for all sorts of things, from extremely athletic to down right evil.

I think what ballyshan and others are talking about are horses with extreme athletic ability and "competitive temperaments". I see the same thing when people interpret warmblood inspection results. Many riders interpret "good temperament" as "quiet and easy going", when what the people setting the bar mean is "eager and enthusiastic". Same with "ridable" - it doesn't mean "hacks down the A3" or "will do dressage for a novice", it means sensitive, forward going, easy to train and athletic. If you look at it that way, then you can see why a horse potentially bound for the top end might not do well in another sphere.

Some do, of course. I've seen very well bred horses that would happily potter about if that's the job description. There are horses jumping for kids and amateurs that certainly could jump Olympic tracks but they're getting their riders out of trouble and "taking a joke" and for most people, that's worth a lot more.

Also, the first type sometimes needs a bit more care to keep itself in one piece and does better with a more knowledgeable program. Of course, many amateurs are well skilled enough to offer that and many pros are not, but the principle is there in theory.

It really isn't about the horse being difficult, it's about the horse being fit for purpose. The Ballyshan Arkansas horse is really lovely and looks to have all the bells and whistles (which explains his success in the YH classes) but look at him jump!?? Especially the first fence and a few times when he has to work a bit (which isn't much or often at that height) - can you imagine what would happen if someone kicked when they didn't mean it or p****d the horse off or he just decided he was full of the joys of life? A less experienced rider would be airborne - for exactly the same reasons he makes that height look like a doddle.
 
I think it depends on an amateurs set up. MG is clearly a very talented horse. When I got him a number of people told me to snd him back as he was "too quirky" - i.e. had a good halt to canter (when getting on) and tended to piss off with me in lessons, however being a stubborn OldGit, I ignored this, but had phenomenal support from Caroline Moore. Had I been trying to do it on my own I doubt it would have gone as wl as it has.
 
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TarrSteps thanks for clarifying this.You have said in a few sentences what I have been trying to say in the last few posts and really not succeeding.
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You're welcome. And in return you can send me something along the lines of the Arkansas horse in a 3 or 4 year old, please.
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My horse is a 'professionals' horse to jump and because I'm a bug wuss when it comes to jumping these days (I have 2 young kids) I have a rider who jumps her at home and events her for me. However she has a fantastic attitude to flatwork and is generally well behaved and so I enjoy training her and competing at dressage. If she'd gone to a professional yard then I would have missed out on so much and she probably wouldn't have achieved much more in her career than she has anyway. I think she has the best of both worlds really.
 
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