Buying horses - who's horse is really that safe??

[Firewell]

I was thinking this the other day.

How many of us (myself included!!) when looking to buy/loan a horse say we want a perfectly safe horse in every way. E.g Must not buck, rear, bolt, nap. Must be good to shoe, box, clip, catch. Horse must be safe and suited for a novice if neccessary.

I am no Novice, I consider myself a compatent amature, im not the bravest however so I steer away from adverts that say 'not novice ride' thinking that the horse must be quirky in some way.

How many of us actually end up with a horse that really is 100% in all situations??

I wanted a horse that fufills the above criteria. However iv'e ended up with a rising 5 yr old TB, who you couldn't consider him a novice ride as he is a young blood horse and he will have his moments. I can cope with these moments though, they arent dangerous.. just babyness. He may have the odd nap or the occassional small buck in canter.. he's spooked every now and again and tried to run off but iv'e stopped him. Nothing more than you would expect really.

My friends horse is an 18yr old. She really is as perfect as you would expect any schoolmistress to be but she still spooked the other day and nearly had my friend off. My old 26yr old gentleman could still stick in a buck!

I guess my point is that when going to view potential horses we say we want 'perfection' but does perfection ever really exist in horses? I think every horse is a large, living creature with its own mind so has the potential to be dangerous. Even the oldest, cobbiest angel in the world must still react to things.. they arent machines after all.

I just wonder wether 'must not buck' means 1. 'of course I dont expect it to go through its whole life with out having at least 1 or 2 bunny hops, but I dont want a serial bucker whos aim is to make me fall off' or does it mean 2. 'horse must not buck, must never even lift its hind legs. ever.'

Thoughts? Also if you are of the 2nd school of thought, should you be having a horse?

 

[Daisychain]

Your absolutely right, its whether a horse trusts you to gain trust with you so it becomes the perfect horse! There is no guarantees.

By the way i do know a perfect bomproof 9yo 16hh black mare dutch warmblood x for sale. She does lovely dressage, jumps, hunts for any kind of rider! Perfect riding club etc. If you want another one!

 

[jendie]

I think we have to remeember that horses are animals and their natural instincts will sometimes take over.

I have,however, ridden one horse that I consider to be 100 per cent safe. She is old Shire and an absolute saint. I've ridden her past gas cannons that have suddenly gone off and she barely flinches.Low flying military jets are no problem to her. She was once tripped up by another horse faffing about and she fell to her knees. I expected to fall off and perhaps be squished but the next thing I knew she was back on her feet walking calmly along. I swear her main concern had been to keep me in the saddle. A very special horse.

 

[Firewell]

She sounds lovely! Hopefully my hard work will pay off with the horse I have though and he will mature into as good as I could expect a horse to be (fingers crossed!!).

I do think trust comes in to it an awful awful lot. My old mare was quirky to say the least but to me she was 100% because I knew her inside out! It took us a couple of years to get there though!

That raises another question though... Do you think that people dont often give a new horse enought time? I think it takes a good 18 months to really bond properly with a horse. To the point where you have unbreakable trust.

 

[Firewell]

I apologise for my spelling. I type really quickly and sometimes my brain cannot keep up with my fingers!

 

[PurplePickle]

I think most of us expect any horse to do something once in a while, I had a bombproof IDx once he was perfect but did buck when excited well once hahah

Personally when looking at an add, I dont want a horse that has some ingrained issue like napping, or bucking you out of the saddle, I dont think thats too much to ask personally although it seems more horses have issues these days

Not novice ride used to mean second or third horse now it can mean complete nut job


I agree with firewell to an extent that once you know a horse and its quirks and how to deal with them it becomes the right horse for you, unless of course those problems are major.

 

[pottamus]

Well I was looking for the bombproof plod when I started back in riding after a 15 year break...I have no problem with a bit of nappiness but did not want something that was too difficult and no bucking, rearing or bolting at all.
I ended up with my Welsh D as a 5 year old and extremely green with very strong opinions on things! He was no saint and we went through hell and back to get him to where he is now...he was extremely nappy, naughty, had been used to getting away with murder, would buck if you tried to enforce good behaviour and if that did not work, he would rodeo.
However...I would not swap him and he has taught me a lot...his wilful huge personality saw me through the bad times...even when people told me to get rid.
I do not think the perfect horse can exist as they have their own minds and instincts to contend with...and we have to accept that to a certain degree and work with it.

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

I agree, I am not a novice but sometimes saying "not a novice ride" makes me go hmmm why not?!

A slightly strong horse, or one that goes a bit keenly into a fence etc I can cope with. A bronking rearing snorting bronco............ no!

I accept that horses buck sometimes, and they spook occasionally! I have to be honest I rode a welsh D who was a god send on the roads! WE had lorries, cars, bikes with flaags and bells etc everything go past us and he was 100% with all of it........ but if there was a puddle on the floor his eyes would pop out of his head and he would avoid walking through it at all costs! (big wuss!) but we had a bird fly out of a hedge once, hit him square in the side of the head I SH*T myself and he just shook it off and carried on walking like Hmm stupid bird! lol

I would call about a "non novice" horse but would ask what about it they class as non novice.

I would not at any point though accept a horse that has reared/rears or has a regular habit of napping. Only because a mare I rode this last year did both very frequently and put the fear of god in me by doing it! Her sister kept me sane and confident but I would start shaking when i had to tack her up (to napper) which obv didnt help, and it got to the point where I just cudn't ride her! She is now 100% after being sent to a professional's yard to be retrained and brought on and is now BE'ing and is for sale.

I think some people do really want a 100% safe bombproof horse.......... and i feel there are some around but even they have their quirks. (like don't like puddles but will walk through a stream! ) as you say its just spending the time to get to know your horse and finding out what works for you both.

 

[Firewell]

I agree with all your thoughts. I dont want a nut job. I know the difference between a horse thats just testing me and trying it on a bit and a horse that has big problems and just wants to dump me. I wont ride the latter type of horse, its not worth it!
However I do know that no horse is perfect and they all have their little ways that are sent to try us!!

I do think they become 'perfect' as you overcome things together and build trust. This can take months or it can take years. Id love to buy this straight off but then where would the journey be? How would we learn? If we wanted that, would we not be happy just driving our cars around?

I do think different horses present different challenges and that we try and choose one suitable for our experience ect. My current horse is literally thousands of times easier than my old horse but I dont trust him half as much. Not yet! My old horse was difficult in different ways, current horse may be a good horse but he still presents challenges that I didn't have to deal with with my old mare as he reacts to things in a different way.

Its all interesting! I cant wait untill I have the same bond with current horse that I did with my mare. We are getting there!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Well we have had 5 'bombproof' horses over the years. All have been driving horses at some point in their careers. Every one of them has done something unexpected occasionally. Our first horse was brilliant in traffic, would walk past a dustbin waggon churning away the rubbish without even noticing it BUT getting him past a horsebox with the ramp down was a heroic feat, lol (we think he was frightened he might never get back to his nice easy life if he went up one of those again!). Another was fabulous on the road but get her on grass and it was another story completely...........
I think it depends what the novice wants to do. Whenever I am looking for a horse for a genuine novice I prefer to look at ride-and-drive as they are less likely to spook/nap on the road. In fact we've just bought a pony for my friend's children to learn on, she's had 2 years off work, being a broodmare but she is proving to be everything we want to teach the boys to ride on.

 

[JustMe22]

To be fair..I've never expected to get a bombproof horse, because I'd rather take talented than safe, but talented AND safe is very expensive So I've stuck riding to ex-racers since I was about 12...and a fair few of them have their days.

I think you do get some properly bombproof perfect horses. I don't know...I've met a few that aren't phased by anything, have never bucked in their lives, never bolted etc. Never been lucky enough to have on mind you
On that note though, I think most horses will have a buck or two occasionally, or will have 'testing' days. Nothing major, but maybe a kick out or something. If you can't handle that..be prepared to look long and hard for a horse If I said I didn't want a bucker, I'd be thinking something that bucks to get you off or throws huge ones regularly. But maybe thats just me.

 

[Serenity087]

I do not like bombproof horses.

My horses have included:

A psychotic dartmoor pony
A spooky and neurotic welsh cob (who was mentally, very very tiring at times!)
A nervous show cob with a history of abuse (prone to the most random behaviours and a lot of bolting!)
A gypsy cob no one had broken properly
An irish cob with just the right amount of spook in her to keep me on my toes!
Another gypsy cob no one had broken
An unbroken clydesdale
...and her BOGOF son
A Highland X Shire with attitude
...and her PBA son...

There's a theme. We don't buy bombproof horses. I bought my first pony because he was being kicked out the riding school for being dangerous. My second horse was considered crazy by the charity who gave her to me. The third horse bolted for 10 minutes every time we tried him.

But you know what? I'd never regret buying any of them. It's a hard slog, it's emotionally crippling, it's exhausting when you've tried every concievable method of working with them and nothing seems to happen. But it's oh so rewarding when it all comes together!

I ended selling a 12.1hh dartmoor pony who jumped 3ft. A show cob who could ODE. A very popular riding school pony. A much loved baby clydesdale. We also had two of our girls pass over with us, but they both died very different, very happy horses.

By ignoring the not novice rides, I suspect you have all lost your horse of a lifetime. There is no such thing as a 100% bombproof horse. Just a horse that trusts you implicically.
Mine trust me, and I trust them. On paper they're a bunch of psychos, but in reality, they're my babies.

And I'd never advertise any of them without the "not for novice" tag. Because a novice wouldn't understand how to earn their trust, not because they don't know how to ride!!!

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

Justme - I agree I would class a "bucker" as one that maliciously tries to get you off, or does it specifically to regularly evade doing a particular task/working hard....

a horse that every so often puts in a little buck out of excitement, coz u tap them with a schooling whip or something like that I wouldn't class as a bucker id class it as a horse......

 

[EmmaJaneWilliams]

I agree with Harper_Gal, after my initial riding school years at 11 I went to work with a local dealer and granted that when you are younger you are fearless, but everything that came through our gates would be classed as 'not a novice ride'. However I believe that generally horses are very good natured animals and problems accur after human intervention or some kind of discomfort. Both my horses I brought for auction both with their fair share of problems but working through them builds an amazing bond. I suppose it depends how much you are willing to put in work wise. I have friends who have 'easy' horses which is great but I do prefer more of a challenge.When we achieve something I believe it means more to me.

I wonder what would happen to all the 'not novice ride' horse if we all wanted a near perfect horse.

As a second thought I believe that the term 'not novice ride' is now used so the previous owner can not be held liable accountable should the horse misbehave.

I think it comes down to horses for courses...

 

[cbmcts]

When I was looking for a confidence giver/bombproof horse after losing my confidence completely with another I made a list of must haves, would like and not bothered about about 6 months before I started seriously looking. I did have to seriously compromise on some of the "would likes" due to a tiny budget

While I'm not a novice, tbh at the time there were plenty of novices out there riding better than I was because I was so scared but where I could compromise was on the handling issues - I've never been phased by anything a horse has done while I'm on the ground but in the saddle was a very different matter.

I ended up buying a 16 yo ride and drive Haflinger who, while he is VERY opinionated is as safe a horse as there is IMHO. He is rock solid in traffic, mannerly as long as it's insisted upon but is still a forward going pleasant ride. In harss however, he is still safe but very sharp and inclined to tank off....mainly because I am a novice driver and he can take the pee so I can imagine that with a true novice rider he could be a bit of sod and hecan buck if he doesn't get his own way. But he is perfect for me.

But I probably have been on of the people looking for the perfect (on paper) horse which had all the virtues mentioned in the OP but the perfect horse luckily differs for everyone.

 

[tangoharvey]

My mare is only 6, but she doesnt look at anything on the roads, double deckers, lorries, lawnmowers, flapping plastic, you name it - she would make a good police horse as she will stand exactly where you tell her to and not move (she would fail in the looks department for the police though I fear)....(dont tell her I said that ;-0) All that said horses are animals and nothing can ever be guaranteed.....

 

[Mithras]

You do get some very trustworthy, safe, gallant horses from time to time but you need to give them time to get used to you. My black mare being a case in point. She does BSJA, eventing, county level showing and hunting and I even take her in the Handy Horse occasionally for a laugh in her full showing gear! She definately tries to stop you falling off and over 3 years I fell off her 6 times, each time landing on my feet. 3 of those were at the same 4 day show last summer when she had hurt her back and I wasn't listening, and she developed a technique of stopping before a jump, dropping her shoulder and depositing me neatly on my feet in front of the jump in a standing position, holding onto the reins. However, she is long backed and I like to let her have a good buck when warming up for a class. She now only bucks on a signal - a tiny touch of the whip on a certain part of her quarters. Otherwise she knows not to buck. She lets you lean against her hindlegs when in the horsebox too, if you're tired and need a rest! I sold this saint for the price of a small horsebox to a hunting home last year and yes, she was expensive, but since she has hunted a full season without anyone falling off her, jumping every single jump and not even stumbling, they are very pleased with their buy.

That said, she is 12 now and it took us a good 3 years to get to the stage of being totally reliable, as she went through her minor nappy phases too. By the way, this saintly horse was the one I was riding when I was given the classic comment by a dog walker of "You shouldn't be riding here, horses are dangerous animals"!!

 

[Sparkles]

Hairycob He is actually just a saint. Completely off the aids, but not sharp at all or does anything untold if you ask wrong/get tense/etc. Gets on with all horses and can be ridden and handled by all pretty much. Never bucked reared kicked bolted etc.
First 4 weeks had to be bareback as no saddle, which included galloping and jumping and all aspects of general riding to which he was also a complete gent and no different to with a saddle. Not spooky or looky at anything at all, hacks out alone and in company. Will live in/out with[out] others. Schools fabulously and promising jump considering how he is lol, not done alotas he's not really built for it but has done watertrays and brush/fillers/logs etc on our first ever jumping session!
He is just a general dude and I love him!

BUT. That said. He is a big wide hairy cob....so not to everyone's taste. Hell, hairy's weren't to my taste either [Hunter/TB person myself, as my horse is TB too!] but have soooo been converted now!

I personally think, if someone wants a nice solid all rounder that doesn't ever do anything untowards or ever spark up, can school say minimum of medium level, yet still jump clear 1.20+'s etc, hack out like a saint, XC to a decent level, etc...they are very few and far between. Not saying impossible...but very very rare and never really let go of/sold till they're needed to retire! You hold on to the good ones.
To go to the higher levels end of competing whether it be SJ or showing etc, I think personally anyway, you need something with that extra 'spark' to really stand out and do it to that extra level. Otherwise it's just another brown horse going round really

 

[JustMe22]

I agree...and lots of people don't like me saying it, but I always think the best horses are the ones with some attitude.

Mine can be pretty chilled if he so desires..but when he goes for it he's got a buck, a rear, a fly leap and can spin 180 as he's doing it..he'll spin around, then rear, then get all 4 feet in the air at once and twist, then land and buck like a bronc..I call it his racehorse syndrome, I dunno. A
nd on a good day..he'll jump anything from any stride. On a bad day he can come into a x-pole on a perfect stride and he stops dead/rears/runs out, and it can be reeeaallly hard to anticipate.
We had a few months last year where he would rear and buck in the stable, bolt away being led by anyone, jump out of lunge rings, kick anything that moved near his legs and udner saddle was getting downright nasty, trying to throw me over walls and get me off any way he wanted...and I think that was his testing period...now we've moved yards and he's learned that I won't let him get away with it, he's turned into quite a sweet and generally cooperative horse who I compete affiliated in DR and SJ and showing..

But generally..he's good He doesn't spook at much, and when he is difficult its because he's stubborn an just..well, he has a difficult streak. Lately though, as in the last 6-7 months he's been near perfect..we've had one horrible day jumping, and the odd stop and rear or run out, and I think two incidents of the rear/spin/bronc sequence doing dressage but thats it.

Still..I would never ever sell him to somebody nervous or novice even a few years on, because if he senses you can't handle it/don't want to handle it he just takes the mickey and I suspect could turn into quite the problem horse. And thats really why I'd say 'not a novice ride' on my ad, because I know he has a difficult streak, and yes..sometimes he gets nasty, and I know in the wrong hands he could be a complete nightmare and could seriously hurt someone, even though in reality he's not necessarily a bad horse, nor a nasty one (he's actually very friendly), he's just a bit tricky.