Calling Barefoot experts

_GG_

_GG_

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So...my girls will be moving soonish and will be on lovely grazing, with very quiet lanes for hacking, nice smooth surface and I would really really like them to both be barefoot.

Molly is only 4 and has never had shoes, great feet, no problem.

Fly is a 16.2hh TB, had shoes on since she started her race training at 2. She has incredibly good feet. My farrier always says that every horse has hooves like Fly, his job would be ten times easier. However, on the odd occasion that she has lost a shoe (three times in two and half years) she was extremely foot sore. I have never thought of making the transition on her current yard as it would mean stabling her to give her comfort for the first few days as there is no way in or out of the paddocks that wouldn't make her really sore and the paddocks are so hard at the moment...well, lets just say, I know her inside and out and I know she will really struggle. Land at new place lovely really established quality grazing, feels like walking on moss, not on concrete and so I feel that it would be a great opportunity to make the transition.

Thing is, I know the stuff I know and barefoot isn't it. I have very limited knowledge and need to call of more experienced people to help me. I'll get close up pics of her feet tomorrow, but for now...here's a general picture.

Flyfeet_zpsca949d6d.jpg


Her off fore has always been a little more upright than her near fore. Farrier always checks her movement and says she is better left as she is.

Main things I am thinking are diet...what would you advise?

Transitioning. What can I di to make it easier on her?

What do I look for in a barefoot trimmer and if I already have a farrier I trust, will he be ok or would a specialist trimmer be better and how will I know who is good and who is just a bit of a charlatan?

All advice greatfully received. xxx
 
Smart looking horse!

Stick with your farrier if you like him, have you sussed out his thoughts on the matter? When you get the shoes off I would ask him not to trim her personally. I'd say what your feeding now, and folk can say if its ok or suggest changes. You can't give them cake tho :D:p
 
Ok, I forgot to add on the end of the OP that I have coffee cake, carrot cake, lemon drizzle cake, chocolate fudge cake, victoria sponge and assorted cupcakes on offer ;-)

As for Fly, both the girls are on grass, supplemented with a section of small bale hay each morning and evening. They hold weight really well but are on sparse grazing hence the hay. They get no hard feed currently as I have had to enforce a break after my fall.

Before that, it was just a handful of Mollichaff calmer as it really works well for Fly and Molly only ever got a smidge as a token thing. I have bloods done every 6 months to check for deficiencies as a general prevention thing as had issues with first pony, so I prefer to test and react than just feed going on a whim if that makes sense. Both came back in April with normal, no deficiencies and when Vet was out for Fly last month for her eye reaction, he remarked on how healthy her skin and coat were and asked what my management routine was. They are good girls, easy to do so I don't want to feed for the sake of it, but I will feed if it will help.

Also, the only time they have anything applied to hooves is that the farrier likes to oil when he's finished. That's it. They both have great, strong healthy hoof walls.
 
Sure some more experienced people will be along at some point but with regards to the trim -less is more. No rasping the walls to make them pretty or sculpting the frogs with a knife. You may need boots and pads for the one with tender feet until the hooves are better.
A lot of barefooters feed the progressive earth sups or forage plus.
I had a look at one of my ponies frogs tonight and I realised after 9 months of having these supplements she is starting to grow nice frogs.
It's important to stimulate the hoof either by leading or riding on the roads or by having turnout which has some rough terrain.
 
weebarney said:
Sure some more experienced people will be along at some point but with regards to the trim -less is more. No rasping the walls to make them pretty or sculpting the frogs with a knife. You may need boots and pads for the one with tender feet until the hooves are better.
A lot of barefooters feed the progressive earth sups or forage plus.
I had a look at one of my ponies frogs tonight and I realised after 9 months of having these supplements she is starting to grow nice frogs.
It's important to stimulate the hoof either by leading or riding on the roads or by having turnout which has some rough terrain.
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Firstly, Ffon Winnie, thanks...yes, she is gorgeous, a real stunner when she isn't half asleep, lol.

Weebarney, thank you. The new yard has a pea gravel driveway, no sharp stones and it's not deep, just right actually. The road is perfect and I can easily do in-hand work.

I have no problem admitting the gaps in my knowledge so all advice is appreciated x
 
Just realised how much I would miss the sound of shoes on tarmac at stupid o'clock in the morning when it's just me, Fly and the birds and the clippety clop. Still...will be worth it if better for Fly. I don't know why but I just have a gut feeling it is what I should do.
 
Just get the shoes off and see if fly is still feeling it after a week or so it's not going to cause long term damage if it doesn't work out. You know your horse better than anyone if she's not happy without them you can just ask your farrier back. Always worth trying.
 
What I try to bare in mind is what it would be like if I suddenly started walking round with no shoes on, yes it will hurt if I stand on a sharp stone but look at them runners in Africa they run marathons without shoes because they have spent years training in bare feet. What I'm trying to say is dont panic shoe at the first signs of ouchyness it's sometimes a long process and you will get their in the end!
 
No...It would have to be pretty bad for me to put them back on. The whole point is, I will be doing less with her this year and she will be going in foal next year anyway so thought now would be a good time. Even when she is due to be shod, her toes are never long. So would it be a case of simply removing shoes and doing nothing else, leaving the toe and the frog?

Anyone know any good barefoot timmers that cover Chippenham?
 
_GG_ said:
Just realised how much I would miss the sound of shoes on tarmac at stupid o'clock in the morning when it's just me, Fly and the birds and the clippety clop. Still...will be worth it if better for Fly. I don't know why but I just have a gut feeling it is what I should do.
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My BF girls clip clop almost as loudly as shod horses now. :). I'm a year into it with one (welsh C) and 10 months in with the other (American Paint Horse). You will get your clip clop back worry not.

She may not need trimmed by the way, if her work load matches her hoof growth, I wouldn't worry too much about boots and trimming yet, just see how it goes.
 
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Before you do anything, make sure diet is right. Sounds like you have. It sounds a if her hoof walls are good but the soles are thin. They will thicken up once they get some stimulation. Next is to get a farrier or trimmer who has many many working bf horses on their books and call for a consultation. They will be able to see the hoof and assess how well developed the structures are and how to manage your transition. Sometimes it's not as easy as whip the shoes off. Sometimes... It is!

When I took my boys shoes off, we had boots ready just in case, but I just turned him out for about a month to get him used to it on familiar ground and help the frog wake up. Diet had a complete overhaul. Then started walking in hand over Tarmac, the best surface to get the hooves stimulated as it is smooth. You have pea gravel too, excellent! Use that as often as poss. If you want to ride, pop the boots on and off you go. They stimulate the whole hoof while still protecting the sole which will still be sensitive.

I know an EP who covers Chippenham so pm me if you want details.
 
Since she has been in shoes for a few years, the back of the foot (lateral cartilages and frog) might need some time to "beef up". A picture that shows the frog and the back of the feet would be useful. If there is a deep central sulcus in the frog, treat for thrush. The heel bulb should feel firm to the touch (consistency of a muscle), but if it's not the case yet that should improve with time out of shoes (as the fibrocartilage gets stronger).

Your farrier seems a sensible type so you could go with him since you already know he works well. I would ask him not to remove sole and remove only flaps of frogs that are loose when trimming and overall just a roll of the wall should keep things in check particularly at the beginning. Taking heels down or pushing breakover back at toes can come in later if needed.

Boot if needed but you can wait until you need the boots to order as otherwise you might get wrong size as feet can change a lot at the beginning sometimes.

Last but not least, check how she lands. She should be landing heel first for correct biomechanics. If she goes toe first then it means she needs a more comfortable surface or be booted (perhaps with pads) and diet/thrush problems, etc looked at. If she is heel first, it generally means there are comfy and feet will improve just with time and movement (unless a very exaggerated heel first which is sometimes deemed not so good).
 
If your farrier is supportive, no reason not ask him if he would help you on your barefoot journey... however, be warned that unless he has many working barefoot horses under his care, it will be an experiment for him as it will for you. You wouldn't call a plumber to lay your brickwork would you?

I'm not suggesting that a trimmer is best, I'm suggesting that you do your research if you want to succeed barefoot. It's hard to do when things don't go to plan and many just end up with the shoes back on.
 
By no means an expert but have kept all our horses barefoot for some years and they do all the things that they did when they were shod. Diet is paramount and yours seem to be on a good basic diet. Ours sometimes need a magnesium supplement to keep them comfortable. Go on the Phoenix horse barefoot forum as the people on there really know what they are doing and are very helpful. The owner of the rehabilitation centre has written a very user friendly book which will give you a good basic understanding of the benefits of going barefoot. You need to be very vigilant about your horses' comfort zones but, if you just use your common sense and be prepared to be very patient, it has lots of advantages for your horse.
 
Agree with daughters groom... Get the book by Sarah braithewaite. Before you do anything... The owner going into this well informed is often a big help to the success of the transition.
 
Wow, thank you everyone. These are exactly the kind of helpful replies I was hoping for. Love this place :)

I'm feeling really positive about it :)
 
Thanks for doing this post, I'm taking my boys shoes off next week as he'll be on paddock rest following his box rest and I'm too pregnant (and he's too unreliable lol!) to keep riding. Hoping 3 months off with some walking in hand and I might just get myself a happy barefoot horse, at least until I start doing lots of roadwork when I might have to reconsider. He's currently on grass nuts, hay (on box rest still) with micronised linseed and valerian (which seems to not work!)
 
Stencilface said:
Thanks for doing this post, I'm taking my boys shoes off next week as he'll be on paddock rest following his box rest and I'm too pregnant (and he's too unreliable lol!) to keep riding. Hoping 3 months off with some walking in hand and I might just get myself a happy barefoot horse, at least until I start doing lots of roadwork when I might have to reconsider. He's currently on grass nuts, hay (on box rest still) with micronised linseed and valerian (which seems to not work!)
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How long have you been using the valerian and where do you get it from? I only ask because I used it for Fly when she went through a really nervy and highly strung period thanks to some new horses on the yard being noisy and annoying. You can feed up to 15g of it a day, but I would feed a mix of valerian and vervain. Seperately I noticed little difference, but together, massive difference, I fed 5g valerian and 5g vervain a day which was equivalent of about 2tbsp in morning feed and 2tbsp in evening feed. It also helps to make a tea out of it as it is much more easily consumed then in an effective way. I'd just boil the kettle, mix with the herbs and leave for 10 minutes then use it to wet down the feed.

Hope your boy continues to recover though :)
 
I've been buying the James Hart V-calm from horse health (which he doesn't seem to like much!) where did you buy yours from? He might enjoy a dry herb more than the liquid form, or I coudl make the tea and pour it over his feed. I thought it was working the first week I used it, but the last couple of weeks I've gone from only riding in the school, and after last night - deciding I probably won't be riding again after he threw 3 tantrums in the arena - little monkey (although my language at the time may have been slightly stronger!). Did it definitely make a difference though? I am feeding valerian as I thought as a banned substance it would be certain to be effective. I will continue feeding it as want him to be as calm as possible (not looking likely atm) when he starts his paddock rest. He's coped with box rest on his own without a buddy, and I'm hoping he'll be ok to paddock rest by himself too, otherwise I'll have to pen one of the others in next to him.
 
_GG_ said:
Ok, I forgot to add on the end of the OP that I have coffee cake, carrot cake, lemon drizzle cake, chocolate fudge cake, victoria sponge and assorted cupcakes on offer ;-)
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ermm on the basis of barefoot rehabbing Frank last year I am going to come round and 'advise' (well eat cake anyway ;) :p :D.

Not sure where you are in Wilts but I have a copy of feet first you'd be very welcome to have/borrow.

Don't worry about the clip clopping, they still make a fair noise but it's actually much nicer having a slightly more peaceful hack - I find it well noisy when I hack out with mum these days- although that is only partly the feet- Mum is noisy in herself :D.

If you do decide to head in a trimmer route I might be able to recommend ;).

Ditto prob don't trim when shoes come off and be aware that some can be fine to start and then get footier a few weeks in as walls wear down/blood flow to hoof increases. We have run a low grass/more hay system (partly on a track when grass growing too much) and Pony is in as much work as was previously really. We did have boots during transition which he wore from May-sept ish time last year as he was particularly footy (he did have very flat soles) but since then they are special occasions only.
 
I buy it as a dry herb from a local health food shop that has an area upstairs full of essential oils and herbal remedies. Ask for it in dried form to make a tea out of. I think I bought 300g bags of each. It is pure herb, so no fillers or other ingredients padding it out which I think some of the pre made equine mixes have. All horses will have different reactions to the same amount. Fly reacted well, but without drowsiness (which I would never want) to the amount I specified. One of the other liveries tried the same on her horse despite my telling her to do what I did and start small, working her way up. No...she went straight for the dose I had Fly on and her horse looked like he'd had a full dose of sedalin. Wore off quickly and not wobbly, but half asleep.

They work in slightly different ways but compliment each other which is why I think it worked so well as Fly, quite typical of ex racers, hold her tension through her traps and over her loins and her nerves come out in a way that she vibrates all over and sweats up. This combo is geared to a horse like her.

The great thing about the health food shop near me is the lady in there. She knows it all inside out and the applications in all animals so was a massive help to me.

Word of caution though is that these herbs are not a long term fix. They can cause liver damage if used long term so I would say not to use for more than three months and then, only use after that as a calmer a few days in advance of something that may be particularly stressful. From what I learned it would take a really long time for any ill effects, but better to be ultra cautious in my book. I was going to have Fly on it for three months, but stopped after two. I went away for a weekend and lady looking after them forgot to feed it but she was just the same when I got back so I thought I would stop and see what happened. Nothing, she remained calm as if she were still having it. Not needed to go back as she's not shown those nervy, tense signs since :)
 
ester said:
ermm on the basis of barefoot rehabbing Frank last year I am going to come round and 'advise' (well eat cake anyway ;) :p :D.

Not sure where you are in Wilts but I have a copy of feet first you'd be very welcome to have/borrow.

Don't worry about the clip clopping, they still make a fair noise but it's actually much nicer having a slightly more peaceful hack - I find it well noisy when I hack out with mum these days- although that is only partly the feet- Mum is noisy in herself :D.

If you do decide to head in a trimmer route I might be able to recommend ;).

Ditto prob don't trim when shoes come off and be aware that some can be fine to start and then get footier a few weeks in as walls wear down/blood flow to hoof increases. We have run a low grass/more hay system (partly on a track when grass growing too much) and Pony is in as much work as was previously really. We did have boots during transition which he wore from May-sept ish time last year as he was particularly footy (he did have very flat soles) but since then they are special occasions only.
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Well, I'm making a chocolate fudge cake again later today and need to do some more over the weekend so if you want to pop by, go for it. The girls are only a mile up the road so you could meet them too :) I'm around all weekend and a lend of your book would be fab. I'm in Melksham by the way. If you want to, just drop me a PM and I'll send you my address and number BUT...if I am going to have a lend of your book....I would be more than happy to bring cake to you and collect.....what is your favourite cake?
 
Stencilface said:
Thanks for doing this post, I'm taking my boys shoes off next week as he'll be on paddock rest following his box rest and I'm too pregnant (and he's too unreliable lol!) to keep riding. Hoping 3 months off with some walking in hand and I might just get myself a happy barefoot horse, at least until I start doing lots of roadwork when I might have to reconsider. He's currently on grass nuts, hay (on box rest still) with micronised linseed and valerian (which seems to not work!)
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If built up gradually, road work is fantastic for bare feet - the more the better :).

OP you sound like you have all your ducks in a row! Just be aware that having been shod at 2, the TB will basically have a 2yo's feet on an adult horse's body. The hooves may look very strong, but 'good hooves' to a farrier usually means hooves that keep shoes well... good barefoot hooves are something altogether different ;). It is likely the structures at the back of the foot will be very weak and underdeveloped (though I'd love to be proved wrong :D).

You may find that you need boots for her at first. If you have a well connected hoof already then check out easyboot gloves. A lot of people maybe wouldn't bother with boots, but imo they're good to have on hand, so that if she's sore, you can still work her and keep her comfy. It's work (i.e. stimulation) that will develop the hoof and improve the health and function. You can always sell the boots on again once you've got the transition phase out of the way.

Diet wise you sound pretty diligent! All I'd say is that having sufficient minerals to avoid a deficiency is not the same as having sufficient levels for optimum health, so with that in mind I'd perhaps consider using a supplement such as Pro Balance +. It is one of the good barefoot supplements, but it has lower levels of minerals than the others... from your description is sounds like you're not massively deficient in minerals where you are now, so Pro Balance would be a good starting point imo.

But also bear in mind that when you move, you may have a vastly different mineral profile in your new grazing. Imo it would be more accurate to spend the money on a forage analysis to get a clear picture of what mineral profiles you have, rather than blood testing the horses. The blood test may highlight a full blown deficiency, but a forage analysis will allow you to balance your mineral profile to ensure optimum health.

Good luck :)
 
Thanks, if I can find a local shop that sells it I'll give it a go. I don't want to feed it long term, just for the transition really so he doesn't damage himself once turned out (more importantly, damage his only insurable leg lol!) :)

Mine is calm as calm 95% of the time, but is a Luso xTB so when he reacts to things it tends to happen pretty rapidly, although I can't deny he looks pretty when he does :redface3: :)
 
TwoStroke said:
If built up gradually, road work is fantastic for bare feet - the more the better :).

OP you sound like you have all your ducks in a row! Just be aware that having been shod at 2, the TB will basically have a 2yo's feet on an adult horse's body. The hooves may look very strong, but 'good hooves' to a farrier usually means hooves that keep shoes well... good barefoot hooves are something altogether different ;). It is likely the structures at the back of the foot will be very weak and underdeveloped (though I'd love to be proved wrong :D).

You may find that you need boots for her at first. If you have a well connected hoof already then check out easyboot gloves. A lot of people maybe wouldn't bother with boots, but imo they're good to have on hand, so that if she's sore, you can still work her and keep her comfy. It's work (i.e. stimulation) that will develop the hoof and improve the health and function. You can always sell the boots on again once you've got the transition phase out of the way.

Diet wise you sound pretty diligent! All I'd say is that having sufficient minerals to avoid a deficiency is not the same as having sufficient levels for optimum health, so with that in mind I'd perhaps consider using a supplement such as Pro Balance +. It is one of the good barefoot supplements, but it has lower levels of minerals than the others... from your description is sounds like you're not massively deficient in minerals where you are now, so Pro Balance would be a good starting point imo.

But also bear in mind that when you move, you may have a vastly different mineral profile in your new grazing. Imo it would be more accurate to spend the money on a forage analysis to get a clear picture of what mineral profiles you have, rather than blood testing the horses. The blood test may highlight a full blown deficiency, but a forage analysis will allow you to balance your mineral profile to ensure optimum health.

Good luck :)
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Awesome post, thank you so much. Already had forage sample done of the ground, and three local hay suppliers and only one hay supplier has been ruled out, can't remember the reason, I just got a nutritionist to do it all for me. Thank you though and I think I will have boots on standby. I have a feeling she will transition well, just be sore for a week or two. No idea where I get that from, just a gut feeling.

Stencilface said:
Thanks, if I can find a local shop that sells it I'll give it a go. I don't want to feed it long term, just for the transition really so he doesn't damage himself once turned out (more importantly, damage his only insurable leg lol!) :)

Mine is calm as calm 95% of the time, but is a Luso xTB so when he reacts to things it tends to happen pretty rapidly, although I can't deny he looks pretty when he does :redface3: :)
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I took a pic of it earlier so will PM it to you so you can see what it looks like. I just mixed the two, but will give you an idea :)
 
When you read Feet First do two things.

1. Admire me on my horse on the front cover :D

2. Ignore the seaweed feeding unless you know your guys need both iodine and iron. Very few horses do and both are bad in excess.

I'm a tad worried about your move onto 'good' grass. What most people call good causes lots of horses to be footie unless access is restricted.

Contact Oberon for her diet advice sheet.

Good luck!
 
cptrayes said:
When you read Feet First do two things.

1. Admire me on my horse on the front cover :D

2. Ignore the seaweed feeding unless you know your guys need both iodine and iron. Very few horses do and both are bad in excess.

I'm a tad worried about your move onto 'good' grass. What most people call good causes lots of horses to be footie unless access is restricted.

Contact Oberon for her diet advice sheet.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I mean good grass in that it is poor quality but very dense, so much nicer under foot than the current rough concrete like paddock she is in. New land had hay cut off it a month ago and is not good quality in terms of loads of lush grass...there is hardly any, but the ground beneath it is softer than her current paddock. It's all ready to be grazed on and it's also a much bigger paddock, so I can manage it myself which will be a welcome change as I do like to do it my own particular way that I know works for Fly :-)

Thanks for the tip about Oberon and I shall give due admiration to you and your horse on the cover :)
 
Stencilface, this is my vervain/valerian mix. This is the amount in my hand that I would feed twice daily. I've had this for so long, I just keep it now as a one off calmer if I need it.

IMAG1829_zps1acdca16.jpg


These are pics of Flys offside fore and hind...light and just me in my deck shoes and holding a smart phone with a stupid touch screen to take pics meant I couldn't see the screen well enough to take pics of the other side.

Fore
IMAG1811_zpsd4594879.jpg

Hind
IMAG1817_zps4683d1d9.jpg


Her heels are firm, but the frog is quite soft.
 
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