Calling the barefoot gurus : Help long toe/ low heel barefoot?

[BlairandAzria]

I'm worried about my barefoot horse, I moved yards about 6 months ago and in that time his front hooves have become long in the toe and low heels.

He has been barefoot the entire time I have owned him (2 ish yrs) as his previous owner couldn't afford shoes. He has always had rock crunching, good pony like feet, they never crack or crumble and I don't have problems with footiness. Infact I posted pictures of them on here a while ago and lots of people comments how good his feet looked.

He is feed a handful of plain chaff, equimins meta balance, egg cup of micronised linseed and electrolytes. He also gets a scoop of hi-fibre nuts in his ball at night. He's out during the day and in over night with ad-lib hay.

The grazing at this new yard is fertilized and for the normally pretty poor doer for the first time ever he is looking a bit porky. He's tbx (or standardbred were not sure)

I am concerned that his fronts are toe long and his heels are dropping. He stands with his front legs under him, he always has done to a certain extent but I've really noticed it this last month, that his legs a a marked angle under his body rather than straight forelegs.

I also posted recently about him throwing dirty stops when jumping. So I am wondering if all these things are connected?

I am wondering if someone who knows more about the barefoot process can talk me through long toe/low heels and how to go about getting them better. Does this have anything to do with the good grass, or is this a mechanical issue ? I am musing that it could be a hind leg (hock?) problem , causing him to take weight onto his toes and off his hinds? which could also be causing the refusing when jumping? And causeing the front leg stance.

If anyone has any information or can point me into any where to look for more information I'd be very grateful. Obviously my next step is getting a vet to investigate, but he is not lame, and I would like to be armed with a bit more knowledge before I go asking for expensive diagnostics.

Many thanks x

 

[amandap]

First, I cannot claim to be any guru lol or an expert either so here's my thinking.

I think the problems may well be dietary and especially the change of grass. My tb's hooves collapse and tend to run forward with too much grass and unsoaked hay.
Excess sugars in some grasses (or other unknown changes) fit with the weight gain, running forward hooves and excess sugars can also upset the gut.
Mild inflammation in the hoof lamina and gut can cause discomfort and may possibly be a factor in the changes in performance as well as hoof shape and stance.

Here's one article about LGL and shows a horse standing with the front hooves back under as well as offering some ideas.
http://www.unshod.co.uk/articles.php

 

[BlairandAzria]

Many thanks for your reply amandap that site is interesting reading. Can I ask what your solution would be for this? I can't take him off the grass, he gets stressing box walking and head tossing if kept in.

 

[TwoStroke]

I agree with amandap, given the timing I'd strongly suspect the grass. Is it possible to restrict his grazing with electric tape or a muzzle?

Otherwise I can recommend more work - the more the better. Extra magnesium may also help, as may adding yeast (e.g. yea sacc). Some people have also had success with adding sodium bicarb.

 

[BlairandAzria]

Yeah for various reasons he's been out of work these past couple of months. Plan is to bring him back into full work.

How much mag should I feed? Is there a different feed balancer that would be better for him - maybe one of the progressive earth ones?

 

[TwoStroke]

I aim to supply about 15g of magnesium daily (so for MgO, that would be 30g of the pure stuff, as it's 1:1 Mg:O). I can't remember off hand how much the Equimins supplies, but I'm sure its less than this, so I'd feed enough to bring it up to that level.

I think the ProEarth balancers are quite similar to META balance if I remember correctly. The Forage Plus balancers have higher mineral levels, and may be worth a try.

Being out of work may also be a major contributing factor, so hopefully you'll see an improvement once he's back in work. My TB is a nightmare when he's off, but as soon as he starts working again I get much tighter hoof growth.

 

[cptrayes]

Good advice you are getting. Work if possible and definitely yeast I would particularly ..recommend.

 

[spookypony]

What does your trimmer/farrier say?

 

[amandap]

Many thanks for your reply amandap that site is interesting reading. Can I ask what your solution would be for this? I can't take him off the grass, he gets stressing box walking and head tossing if kept in.

Two things I would try and do definitely is restrict grazing and feed some gut support such as yea sac as suggested.
I know it's hard at livery but speak to YO and see if there's anything you can do such as another field, area such as school or tape off a rough area and perhaps if there's another horse that needs to lose weight or has grass/hoof problems share with them so he's not alone.
A track system is great as it increases movement but I realize this may be out in the fields. I have yards for grass free time and tbh I do think liveries should have areas for grass sensitive horses but hey ho one day. lol

Consider one of the forage plus balancers and feeding salt as well. Increase to one tablespoon a day.
Gradually bringing back into work will help I'm sure. Road work will help self trim too.

Re trimming, many address the toe I believe but I have found diet control to be the biggest factor and it's easy to do too much toe work and put more strain on the back of the hoof imho.

 

[BlairandAzria]

Thanks for the replies

I will have a think about what I can do regarding grazing. He will be brought into work again and hopefully this will help.

So feed wise : the equimins meta balance, electrolytes (should I still add salt to this?) micronised linseed, so I should add yea sacc (how much? There is yea sacc in the meta balance i think) and mag ox up to 30g a day (including the amount already in the MB) ?

I know he lacks road work, but I'm hoping that ill be able to get out hacking a bit more soon now I'm hopefully I've got a livery to come with me- the hacking is pretty dire here.

Also has anyone used the Alltech Lifeforce supplement? I've heard good things about it for both gut and feet?

Many thanks

 

[BlairandAzria]

Sorry spoooky pony missed your post before- my farrier was the one that suggested the hind limb lameness possibility. He's taken his toes back as much as he can and left his frogs intact.

I've noticed that the white line has spread recently too.But the farrier is pleased with the general condition of his feet in that they are hard and strong. Just worried about the heels and toes

 

[amandap]

So feed wise : the equimins meta balance, electrolytes (should I still add salt to this?) micronised linseed, so I should add yea sacc (how much? There is yea sacc in the meta balance i think) and mag ox up to 30g a day (including the amount already in the MB) ?

I would drop the electrolytes and just feed salt myself. Salt is the most likely to be deficient. There may be enough yea sac and magnesium in MB. When you are ready to re order either ask their advice or Sarah at Forage Plus.