Calmers. . .potted history, please.

TarrSteps

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The prevalence and preponderance of calmers here was a new one on me when I relocated so I don't know much about them. But the other thread on 'managing' performance horses - and the side discussion of ethics - got me thinking. Leaving aside pharmaceuticals and valerian, which is age old, what is the history of 'legal' calmer use? What did people here do before?
 

TarrSteps

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And before I get told off, I'm particularly interested in their use for training and competition. I've had a few conversations with professionals about their experiences but am curious about the wider view.
 

DabDab

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To be honest I have never used any, but not because I would never use them - if I was competing a horse that I felt would benefit from a calmer I would certainly look into it to help the horse out. The big thing for me that I suspect has stopped me using them before is I don't know at what point one would say that 'this horse needs/could benefit from a calmer for training or competition'.

I will lunge a horse before I get on it though if it is an excitable sort, so I suppose that's what I do instead.
 

Rebels

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I use one on an extremely sharp 6yr old. No amount of lunging, hard work, diet change helped him. It just meant he could run faster for longer. Running (i don't mean bolting) is his coping mechanism. He will run at top speed round whatever we are working in in a panic. I have worked super hard on this and it had stopped or was a few strides max . The last few days he has restarted it. The only change is i stopped his magnesium calmer to see if it made a difference. Even loose in the field he more jumpy and nervous. He is a much happier animal on a calmer.
Ps he has been assessed by his breeder, osteopath, vet, numerous instructors etc. The verdict is that he has inherited and magnified a trait of his fathers which must be trained out. Luckily he is very talented and will be worth the work.
 

DabDab

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I use one on an extremely sharp 6yr old. No amount of lunging, hard work, diet change helped him. It just meant he could run faster for longer. Running (i don't mean bolting) is his coping mechanism. He will run at top speed round whatever we are working in in a panic. I have worked super hard on this and it had stopped or was a few strides max . The last few days he has restarted it. The only change is i stopped his magnesium calmer to see if it made a difference. Even loose in the field he more jumpy and nervous. He is a much happier animal on a calmer.
Ps he has been assessed by his breeder, osteopath, vet, numerous instructors etc. The verdict is that he has inherited and magnified a trait of his fathers which must be trained out. Luckily he is very talented and will be worth the work.

So at what point did you decide to use a calmer with him? As in - how long did you wait before saying 'I've given him everything that anyone could give him, and he simply needs some extra help'. ? And what difference did it make for him (if you don't mind me asking :))
 

TarrSteps

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Many more horses wearing ear plugs in North America, true! When I suggest it here people often look at me like I'm the devil. :D
 

DabDab

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I think calmers are more acceptable than earplugs because calmers are often seen as righting a natural imbalance, whereas earplugs are seen as masking a problem that you can't cope with.
 

TarrSteps

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By the way, I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just genuinely curious. It seems so standard here to go to a calmer very early on with a horse that's under performing - I'm just curious about the origin of the practice. Is the 'belief' in the powers of magnesium to do with the forage here? Is it very common for horses to be deficient?
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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The old one that was pretty popular eons ago was to withhold water overnight, then let the horse drink its fill & then run it out.
Made for a steady horse instead of something scatty - didnt stop the real nutters, but certainly slowed some down.... not at all nice for the horse tho!

Mandies were used by 1 (then) notorious dealer in the south as I recall (was at school then, but remember the local grapevine going bonkers at the time!), till she was caught out big time by a purchaser.

ACP has been very popular for taking the edge off in the past, particularly in the mid 80's - 1 parent even shoved it in their PC eventer so younger daughter could keep control. Was found out before pony was mounted tho as child was so worried.
Very difficult to get it right tho....but thats chemical & you were not asking about that.... (tho have hair raising stories about a few uses of chemicals/drugs)

Personally? Never used anything on the large variety I had in, just simple working patterns & the right handling. Never seemed to have animals then that needed 'calming', maybe I was lucky :)
 
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loobylu

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By the way, I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just genuinely curious. It seems so standard here to go to a calmer very early on with a horse that's under performing - I'm just curious about the origin of the practice. Is the 'belief' in the powers of magnesium to do with the forage here? Is it very common for horses to be deficient?

It's a very easy thing to try isn't it? Just buy a tub/ syringe and feed to horse. Requires v little extra time or patience, but a bit of extra cash. Also seems to be a nice thing for the horse as opposed to tiring him out/ persuading him to put up with having his ears stuffed etc.
 

ester

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I think it's very common for grazing/forage to be considered deficient in Mg in bits of the UK. I know ours is pretty rubbish so we supplement but not for any calming property.
 

CaleruxShearer

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I'm going to try some with mine on Saturday, he's a really lovely horse but is a real worrier and stress head. He isn't sharp in that I'll get on and worry he may go up or bronc, he isn't like that at all but he gets so so tense and sharp and when he does this he has a bit of a tendancy to run. This is something he's always done, I know his full history and its just how he is. Usually I can work through this with time and patience but at the moment he is fitter than he has ever been and he's VERY bright, it's just like he's constantly on edge, jumps at everything etc. Unfortunately he's the sort of horse that if I lunge him on saturday before my test it will most likely wind him up more, for this reason I am going to try a calmer, just to help him relax. Knowing him I think once he's had one run he will be fine.
I've been reading up about calmers this week though and the research that Malcom Green from Equifeast has done is very interesting.
 

Rebels

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For my horse it gives him a split second more of processing time. Instead of object, run we have object, think and run. This is a horse I've had since 3, done all of the work myself. I know he has no reason for some of his reactions. The one time I came off when he span and ran he had to have 2 months out and be completely restarted! On the calmer he is a tricky sharp horse but one who can be taken out, xc schooled, hacked etc. He is still frustrating, sharp and a worrier but can be worked through his nerves. I also have him on a general vitamin and mineral supplement which he stayed on whilst I tried him off the calmer. I had hoped that this would cover him but the difference showed within a few days.
The day I decided to put him on it was the day I got off in despair saying the horse was too wired to ride.
Part of him is breeding i think, welsh cross kwpn. He has the fast welsh reaction (mum) but with the slow to mature of the warmblood. Dad is by Jazz, also sharp and I have since found out, evades by running forwards.
In the past would this horse have even been bred? Was there such a demand for young riders dressage horses? Would half the crosses around have been bred?
 

Lyle

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I've never used one when competing due to the ethical issue for me. TBH, I've been surprised reading this forum at the number of people 'openly' stating their use of calmers when preparing for competition. I've been under the impression that, (at least, in Aus perhaps) the use of any specific performance enhancing substance was banned.

I think it needs to be taken into consideration too, that the majority of commercial 'calmers' are simply Vit/Min supplements (Mg and B vitamins) with amino acids such as Tryptophan (often found at high levels in oats :eek: ). The consensus here is that if a calmer 'works' on your horse, then you need to review the vit/min supplement side of your feed regime :p

So now I feel like I'm chasing my tail! Even though the active ingredients in most calmers can be supplied to the horse by a quality feed regime, to me it's the act of purposely giving a horse a 'quick fix' to 'enhance your performance' purely for competition that ethically doesn't sit right :p To me, a good feeding regime is similar to a good training regime; they are all done on a daily basis, and are not a 'short cut' to better performance on the day.

*dons flame proof suit*
 

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I started supplementing magnesium when I got kicked in the field for no apparent reason a few years ago...presumably, magnesium only helps if there is an actual deficiency, but I'm told by forage analysis people that such a deficiency is common around here. Pony is now on a good mineral supplement, and hasn't kicked me since then...excepting 2 weeks ago, when I'd run out of the supplement a short bit before. Apparently, putting his hi-viz on was cause for alarm, and he then spent an hour going around a hack tense as a spring, threatening to kick dogs and pedestrians, and all sorts of uncharacteristic behaviour. He's always spooky, but that's a bit extreme! The mineral supplement is back, and (relative) calm has been restored.
 

TarrSteps

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Lyle, FEI rules are quite clear - it is against the rules to give any substance to a horse prior to or during competition with the express purpose of altering behaviour or performance. I believe there is even a qualifier that this applies whether the substance can be tested for or not. Realistically, of course, if a substance cannot be tested for and/or is not on the banned or controlled list then there is no practical control to people using it. But yes, the ethical/legal position is quite clear.
 

DabDab

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I think they already are marketed as a mineral supplement - add these minerals=calming effect. I believe that that is exactly why they have been so successful - because it allows people to get over the stigma in their own minds of anything that appears to 'dope' a horse in any way
 

spookypony

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DabDab, it strikes me that there's a certain amount of fuzzy thinking going on in their minds, in that case. Surely if the horse has a dietary deficiency significant enough that giving it a calmer will affect its state of mind, then the owner should be altering the diet to supplement the missing substance, rather than use it just befor a competition?
 

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Many years ago, an old suffolk horseman told me that he used to give a lump of bicarb of soda to any working stallions that were hard to handle. he said that one lay down in a ditch!! I've never had the need to try this, but there was a case of a racehorse given this several years ago.
 

cundlegreen

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Forgot to add, re magnesium deficiency, we are on water meadows here, and one of mine tested deficient in mag and potassium, so I always supplement now. I always get a urine sample tested before supplementing anything.
 

DabDab

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Good point SP - I was only really thinking about those who use a calmer all the time, as a dietary supplement. So I guess there are a whole different set of people who use them just prior to competing - using products like the magic syringes predominately I suppose.
 

BeckyD

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Calmers were certainly around when I was a teenager (say 1994/5) because I bought a horse from someone who said that the only way the horse was rideable was on a calmer (I think it was a Dodson and Horrell herbal job). Being 15, I didn't have spare funds for the calmer, so got on with riding the horse and have to say it never crossed my mind after that, that anything was needed - horse was perfect as she was.

My ex-racer was also fine as a 4yo, but my then-instructor recommened Nupafeed - which unfortunately led to a very adverse reaction and sent him as high as a kite and ridiculously over-reactive. Took about a month for him to come down from that particular high. That was back in 2008. I then suffered a lot of injury issues with the horse and the vets prescribed ACP to try to keep him calm in his stable whilst on box rest. Vet also recommended Zylkene for the in-hand walking period but I can't say it made any difference and was hideously expensive.

I started competing that horse eventually and found him very over-exciteable at outings and tried a few different herbal calmers, settling on pure liquid valerian (a mega dose) in the end. This worked amazingly well - horse was now calm in his field turned out, happy in his stable, happy and calm and shows but still on his toes and with lots of sparkle. It was perfect. It wasn't competition legal but I only did about 3 or 4 low-level unaff shows.

Have to say other than valerian I am very dubious about calmers. Not sure they work at all. Current horse was very nervy in the field/stable/to handle and I tried lots of calmers - none worked, not even Valerian, and the only thing that calmed him was a change of yard - now he's a dope on a rope.

I don't have any ethical issues against people using calmers if the horse is anxious - I'd far rather see a happy healthy horse than one that is stressed. I also suspect if it calms the rider to think it is working, then it's good for the horse :rolleyes:

I do fear that we are gradually moving towards the point where riders aren't able to cope with a fit and lively horse (as they should be in my mind) and that therefore many horses are going to calmed to the point of horizontal.

<prepares to be shot down>
 

JGC

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I've had my mare for five years now - the first two years I didn't give her anything and she was always pretty spooky, but just worked through it, trying to build a relationship, get her out and about more etc., which all worked to some extent, but she would still have days when she'd be really nappy and spooky out hacking. Then there would be certain times of year that she'd be really vile in the school (this is a generally a really willing mare - almost too much, who will work through pain if you ask her (obviously, I'm super careful with her)), refusing even to trot a 20m - you've guessed it, when she was in season. So put her on Oestress, then moved her to agnus castus, which really helped, but she kept the spookiness.

So I thought I'd give the magnesium a go - I was told that it would be expelled if she didn't need as long as I stuck to the dosage (company said that you can overdose on it, plus it's not great for their kidneys (or do I mean liver? :eek:) to have to expel too much extra), so I thought it was worth a go. She gets a lot less stressed on it, so while she will still look and snort at stuff, it's not such a big deal and she won't wind herself up like she used to. I went on a skiing holiday in February, got back on her, walked up the road, turned around and came back and asked them why they hadn't told me that they'd run out of her supplement while I was away - it was that big a difference!

Over here, I have been prescribed a course of magnesium before when I was particularly stressed and getting muscle cramps, so I know what a difference it made to me. While I could change the mare's diet, she actually has just a handful of hard feed, being a typical good doer, and there's not a lot I can do about the forage.

I don't see it as performance-enhancing though, quite the opposite - it's returning them to the state they would naturally be in if all the vit and min needs were being supplied. I wouldn't just leave them deficient in iron or vit E, so I wouldn't leave them deficient in magnesium.
 
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