Calmers - what's the point?

[Parkranger]

Sorry thought i'd repost with a more interesting title:

OK, alot of people post on here about calmers but I wondered what people's feelings were on them?

I had a horrible time with Ty in the winter and although I was tempted, I never put him on anything as I knew that being ridden everyday and paying close attention to his diet was the only way to get him through - touch wood he is now.

So why do you feed calmers? Are you against them?

I don't want to start an arguement but a healthy debate would be interesting as I've never used them so maybe a little uneducated on them.

x

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

In my opinion I think people blame too much of the horses behaviour on what they're feeding him or wether or not they are using a calmer.

We went through this with my Hann x TB, he was bred for jumping....he was extremely sparky, fast, spooky etc etc. I tried changing feeds, using 'Magic' calmer etc....none really worked.

What really works, & not alot of people are prepared to spend the time & effort they just keep on jumping, but we stopped all jumping....got a quality flatwork/dressage trainer & worked & worked on schooling him properly. We worked on the walk & the trot, we didn'rt even canter for quite a while. It took several months but we were patient. Doing this worked, he is now alot calmer, he is in self carriage, he is balanced, he has a steady rythmical canter, he hasn't forgotten how to jump & he can do a quality Prelim Dressage Test aswell.

In short, alot of the problems riders experience is nothing to do with the feeding, it may be part of it, but the schooling basics need to be instilled in every horse. Without them you are wasting your time.

 

[alicep]

i have a very scatty mare who when stressed loses weight. i havnt tried using a calmer yet as she is not scatty all the time and i feel that maybe it would change her personality?! i try focus more on what triggers it off and how i can change/avoid it. i would only consider feeding a herbal calmer as im not so keen on synthetic man made drugs.

 

[ann-jen]

I've just started my mare on Nupafeed about 10 days ago on the advice of my instructor. Lets just say I am usually very skeptical about such things, but figured its unlikely to do her any harm but if it does work then it would be great. I posted on this site and on the whole heard great feedback on it so decided to give it a try.
The problem I have is Jenny generally a very lazy horse except when jumping where she gets very anxious due to memories of a back problem she had in the past. I know the main way to get round this is with patient reschooling and it has been paying off in a big way but when she does get het up she seems to go past the point of no return and there seems no way to calm her again.
In principle I liked the sound of Nupafeed because it sounded like it wouldn't make her more lazy but would "stop" the adrenaline rise that still occassionally happens when jumping.
So far I haven't had any silly sessions with Jenny but wonder if she just hasn't felt under pressure enough to become anxious??? We have jumped and she's been fine. Oddly I competed dressage at the weekend and normally I have to spend the warm up firing her up before the test but I didn't need to this time and she did 2 brilliant tests. She feels a lot freer in her paces and looser some how and that has definitely been since starting the Nupafeed - so maybe there is something in it after all? I always do carrot and back stretches after I've ridden and she seems to be finding these easier too. I know its not really a calming thing but I think these things are connected. She's a lot less tense through her quarters since being on it.
I'm having a jumping lesson this afternoon so it will be very interesting to see how she goes on it as that will be the first real test since she's been on the Nupafeed. I will let you know how we get on.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Although my lad is so much better he still has his moments....he still occasionally gets anxious...sometimes at shows he can be a litle sparky.......after all horses are 'Fright & Flight' animals, but quality schooling & patience is definately the way forward with most horses

 

[Scarlett]

I use 'Magic' in spring and when the second big growth of grass comes through, I do believe what people say about there being a shortness of magnesium which effects the horse and gives them 'spring grass madness', a few weeks ago without it they were both spooking at everything and bouncing on the spot which isn't like either of them as they are both very laid back. A half scoop of Magic in feeds during this time just helps keep them from being spooky and means we can keep on with their schooling without me worrying.

They don't get anything the rest of the year, and in winter are turned out all day and are worked 6 days a week throughout the year. I wouldn't use something all the time.

 

[the watcher]

I started our most challenging mare on NAF Magic last May, she had been very difficult to deal with up until this point. There were another of other issues, up until then we didn't have a school and conditions were less than ideal.

It was hard to say with certainty whether it was the calmer or the the more regular work that made a real change to her attitude, but we kept going with the calmer anyway. Earlier this year I ran out and being a bit blase didn't worry too much, nothing else changed. Within a week she had turned into a fire breathing monster, and within a week of restarting magnesium she had calmed down again.

I think this mare responds badly to a magnesium deficiency, or can't properly use that which is available in grass and feed and feeding a magnesium based calmer does make a real difference to her.

If you horse was deficient in some other vitamin or mineral you wouldn't think twice about feeding extra to provide what is needed, i don't how magnesium would be any different

 

[_OC_]

TBH I think what helps one might not another......we have two TB types on our yard, my friend put her TB cross Arab on Nomad and the result was good......also a full TB who does lots of side saddle and large Riding horse classes to high level has also been put on it as he is a stress head and the results showed good so that he would settle in his schooling and box......if there is a way not to give then I think owners should try and find other solutions(more turnout, less feed etc )......as sometimes can be a quick fix answer to a problem that could have been handled different.....like us taking a pill for a headache!

 

[ann-jen]

Don't get me wrong - I completely agree with you. When I first got Jenny I competed BSJA with her and although she was sharp then never had any real problems. There is a very long story regarding her back which I won't go into but it has taken YEARS of schooling to get her to the point where i could even consider taking her to a jumping show again. After getting to the bottom of her back problem - which took some investigation - I also stopped jumping altogether for about a year and really concentrated on flatwork - I found a great dressage instructor and saddler - and worked hard on her topline and schooling. We used to get 40's prelim dressage and now get 60's novice and are going to affiliate this year so its really paying off.
BUT she/we seem to still a have a bit of a block where the jumping is concerned and she still associates jumping with the pain her back gave her and its taking a lot more work to sort that out than the flatwork. It is only because her flatwork is SO much better that I now feel we can even try to tackle the jumping. I used to have a very negative instructor for jumping who basically said Jenny would never change and always be mental to jump and she would be better off going to one of the hunting hardnuts up the road to beat it out of her!!!! .......so I now have a new instructor -BSJA accredited - and Jen has made more progress in the last couple of months than in the whole time I've had her (5y)- including when I was competing her before any of her "issues" arose!
I think we are nearly ready for a little unaffiliated show! But she still has odd time where she throws a wobbly and although 9 times out of 10 I can get her back and start again within the session there is still the odd time when she just gets more and more uptight. When she gets like this there is no point continuing the session as you could be there all day and she'd not calm down. I've had maybe 2 sessions where she's been uptight but not beyond the point of no return and 1 session where she threw the towel in since I started lessons with my new instructor - compared to basically every session being like this with the old instructor. So I do agree its the schooling thats the key. All I'm hoping with the Nupafeed is that it keeps her anxiety levels down so that a rubbish session is less likely to occur. Time will tell whether it will work or not.

 

[vicijp]

I occasionally feed a calmer as a 'muscle' supplement.
In a horse that has a small muscle/stiffness problem it helps the area relax, enabling them to work themselves through it.

 

[airedale]

Don't feed them routinely at all - totally agree diet and routine and plenty of fibre in diet is basic thing

However one (needless to say chestnut !) mare that is a mini racehorse just gets hyper when out of her "routine" - e.g. going to a PC rally or a show

So for those I use the Eq. America syringe magnesium stuff. It has worked but it's definitely something I keep for "on the day" and not for routine.

She's got ability but just needs the edge taking off so she doesn't have a panic attack and start running backwards and sweating like an idiot (also - not a 'young horse' thing - she's 15 and has always been this way out of routine situations - but the mag calmer works for her)
(also BTW nothing to do with in/out of season)

 

[Tempi]

i used them once on Archie. didnt do the blindest bit of difference. I really dont see the point in them to be honest.

 

[lucemoose]

Am on/off nupafeed. Was wary to start with as I didnt want to be jumping a horse that was 'not there' and of taking away his natural erm..love of life lol. My mum bought it for me as she said my horse was dangerous to jump, not through any fault of his own other than excitement. Theres a few videos of me on youtube which show he just wants to get the job done anyway poss! Indoor SJ is the worst, so I have taken him off the daily dose as its the outdoor season now, and seeing how he goes. Its been fine so far really, but I know there are more factors to take into account. I have to drug him up for stressage, or he goes pop! and will see if I need to start dosing for SJ. I dont give him any for XC, hes quite relaxed once he is on the course, I just have to stay away from utter plebs in the warm up.
Like ann-jen, Ive started having proper lessons with a BSJA trainer, and its showing me that my horse is capable, but his brain needs work!
For me the point of the calmer is to put my mums mind at rest when we go out, and its also very upsetting when you are sitting on a horse who is turning himself inside out , I wnat to help him.

 

[ann-jen]

Thats interesting because I've definitely found a difference in Jen since she started the Nupafeed. Is it a magnesium based calmer that you use? Jen always used to have a firm area the size of my hand in her left quarter - didn't seem to cause her any problems - but never went away with physio/massage etc but within a couple of days on the magnesium I noticed it had gone - might just be a coincidence?

 

[Agent XXX999]

Depends on whether you have a horse with a problem or a horse who is underworked and bored for instance.

Have had horses in full work (competition fitness and out competing) who get very het up no matter how calmly and consistently you ride them, and calmers have worked for them. Sometimes, especially with horses that compete and have that 'sharp' mind, life all gets a bit much and you do need help! Would not put a horse on a calmer if they were a bit fresh though.

Have also used them on hormonal mares....

Its horses for courses really!

 

[Agent XXX999]

Have found magnesium to be very good with anxious horses, maybe the lump was like humans get tight shoulders when they are anxious?

 

[ann-jen]

Thats what I was wondering. Its been there for a long time - definitely since she had all the trouble with her back. (2+ yrs ago) It might even have been there before but I didn't notice it. Seems odd that it seems to have gone pretty much overnight unless it is to do with the supplement. She is definitely a lot looser in her paces too. As far as whether its "calmed" her at all - I still don't know - might not know until I take her to a show.

 

[ISHmad]

I tried the NAF Magic calmer with my boy once. Made him worse! He now has Mag Ox as a calmer and also to help with his bare feet. Lots of pasture in the UK is lacking in magnesium, and as this is needed in numerous muscle functions of the horse it never hurts to supplement it. Or you can have your pasture and hay analysed to see if it is lacking or not.

 

[polyphonic]

i have used them and found them jus another expensive product. tried magic etc and didnt make a slight bit of difference so i am trying the so-kalm paste this sunday for the dressage, i believe its legal so will give that a go

 

[Agent XXX999]

ISH_mad, not wishing to start a huge debate....but why, if barefoot is so great and 'natural' - do you have to aid it with a suppliment?

I know nothing about barefoot - having natives and youngsters with no shoes is about as natural as I get.....so it is an innocent question!

Sorry, off topic ish but I have to ask!

 

[the watcher]

I guess barefoot is natural until the moment you stick a saddle on the horse's back and trundle off down the tarmac - nothing more unnatural than that! Once they start working I can see that some horses might need support in their feed.

 

[polyphonic]

alot of people say it can be due to nerrvous system etc and need a balancer for that but i found with mylad its all in his mentailty, if its not a physical thing i dont believe a calmer like magic will cool their way of thinking

 

[PLAYBOY]

i believe calmers are mind over matter i think some horses are just this way and trying to knock the spark out of them just does not work it may work in stages but im sure it comes in bigger explosions results in falling off, bolting ect... my horse is very sparky and i beleave keeping him this way and not trying to knock it out of him will take him to the top not just british novice and disco im taking e.g 1.30`s i watched a 1.40 grand prix at the weekend and couldnt see one horse that could stand still for its rosette didnt give up a fight around the ring or buck or was strong ! keep the spark just use it to your advantage!

 

[ISHmad]

[ QUOTE ]
ISH_mad, not wishing to start a huge debate....but why, if barefoot is so great and 'natural' - do you have to aid it with a suppliment?

I know nothing about barefoot - having natives and youngsters with no shoes is about as natural as I get.....so it is an innocent question!

Sorry, off topic ish but I have to ask!

[/ QUOTE ]

It is nothing to do with being "natural" but because for my horse he wasn't doing well in shoes. Was constantly ripping front shoes off, slipping on roads, unbalanced downhills etc. Had his hind shoes taken off first in 2005 and his front shoes of in 2006. He has never moved better.

The magnesium supplement is for the whole horse - because it works on their central nervous system, muscles etc and because our grazing is lacking in it I am giving my horse what he needs! The fact that it is also good for his bare feet is an added bonus and one I am grateful for.

I am not anti-shoeing, but did not go down the barefoot route without doing lots of research first either.

 

[Agent XXX999]

Playboy I completly agree with keeping the spark - bt some horses cant cope with it and need help to foucs.....we had a horse at the yard who was sharp at home and jumping 1.30's he looked like an international horse, but as soon as you took him off the yard it all got too much for him and he became very anxious and too sharp!

Magnesium really helped him to chill a bit but he was still sharp enough. He is jumping 1.20's now and getting alot better though apparently still has the odd tantrum when out. It is like he cant control himself!

 

[PLAYBOY]

[ QUOTE ]
Playboy I completly agree with keeping the spark - bt some horses cant cope with it and need help to foucs.....we had a horse at the yard who was sharp at home and jumping 1.30's he looked like an international horse, but as soon as you took him off the yard it all got too much for him and he became very anxious and too sharp!

Magnesium really helped him to chill a bit but he was still sharp enough. He is jumping 1.20's now and getting alot better though apparently still has the odd tantrum when out. It is like he cant control himself!

[/ QUOTE ]
here here xx im not against calmers at all!! just people trying to make there horses something there not!!!!!!!

 

[polyphonic]

i too agree with playboy and FF. I think some horses are just naturally "up them selves", and maybe you can control it to an extent. I see it a shame sometimes that people feel the need to complety calm there horse down, instead of buying a horse like that, buy one that is more suitable for the rider.

quote: I guess barefoot is natural until the moment you stick a saddle on the horse's back and trundle off down the tarmac - nothing more unnatural than that!

how you do make me laugh!!

 

[ISHmad]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess barefoot is natural until the moment you stick a saddle on the horse's back and trundle off down the tarmac - nothing more unnatural than that!

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more! As per my post my horse isn't barefoot to be natural but because it is right for him.

Don't understand this barefoot - v - shoeing negativity TBH. At the end of the day it is what is right for the horse, and if that is shod or unshod so be it!

 

[lucemoose]

FeuFolet, thats exactly how i would describe my horse , hes consistently worked, competed , MOTed etc..and this is the horse he has become! shaaarp as!

 

[vicijp]

I use NAF Magic.
I find it definetly helps with muscle stiffness. Especially those which are cold backed coming into work, or those that are having physio treatment for something. It just helps keep everything nice and loose, and they work through it.