Can a horse fake lameness??

[Dogbetty141]

My horse who is very spooky also tends to go lame on one of his front legs. He can be fine some days and the will go lame other days. Not dog lame as he still walks on it.

Heres the thing when I ride him with long reins he never goes lame but as soon as I pick the contact up he is there swinging his head a lot higher than normal and almost pretending to be lame as he would be lame with long reins if he really was lame.

Is this something to do with my horse prefering to be rode with a proper contact because once I am schooling him and he is working well and in a nice outline he does not go lame once?

Please help me as no body on our yard has any ideas and he has done this for the 2yrs I have had him. The vet has seen his leg but because there is no lameness when I not riding him or when I am working him they think that he is just a lazy horse who is trying to get out of work.

 

[AmyMay]

Sounds like he could be bridle lame.

 

[Nari]

I don't know in this case but the pony I had when I was a kid had a spell when he often used to go lame on hacks, usually when we were a fair distance from home. If I got off & led he'd look sound but when I got back on he'd be lame again. I used to lead him home a lot & as he was my first pony & I thought the world of him I was getting worried. One day the AI on the yard saw me leading him home, nearly in tears, & asked what the problem was. I explained then ran him up in hand - sure enough he was sound. She made me get on & trot him up (although he was lame in walk) & he was very lame. Asked me to trot him again & then asked if she could get on to have a feel. She got on &, much to my horror, belted him when he trotted off lame! The old sod immediately went sound (he also got very cross & bucked) & she rode him for the next 10min without a lame step. What I hadn't noticed but she had was that he couldn't decide which leg to be lame on - the first time I'd trotted him up he'd been hopping on one, the next time he'd picked the other!! I felt a total fool but thereafter if he went lame usually putting the reins into one hand made him sound again. Interestingly years later I lent him to a friend to hack while I went on holiday & he pulled just the same stunt on her.

 

[Dogbetty141]

That sounds a lot like my horse when others are riding him he does it a lot more and he may spook at something and forget that he is lame and then it sort of like he thinks "im supposed to be lame"

A lot of people have dismissed this comment saying that horses arnt that clever and there must be a medical reason.
Bridle lame was one of the suggestions but as he fights a bit at first before he goes in an outline and would prefer to round with his head stuck out I think maybe this is not what is up with him. I may have the wrong idea I dont know but what else can I do to help him with either this problem or cheekyness??

 

[Tierra]

Like the above poster, I dont know your pony so wouldnt like to make too many judgements. That being said, my horse has also had the odd claim to a bit of acting.

When he does it, he drops dog lame.. I mean really "oh my god my horse has broken something" lame. The first time he did it with me, Id only just got him and was absolutly devastated. My OH went to find my trainer (who'd we'd bought horsey from) and after she had a quick look at him, she started laughing. She hopped on, trotted him round for a few seconds, slapped him and off he went, sound as anything and proceeded to do some lovely piaffe and passage when asked.

I did actually get the vet out later in the afternoon to have a look and he found nothing wrong with him (the horse had also had a 5* vetting with xrays and passed).

He has done it the odd time since... usually when its raining, windy and I choose to drag him out of his warm bed.

Anyway, I do think some horses can and will fake lameness (my chiropractor has a similar story to the poster above of her old horse who used to get so far from home then start with a minor limp... which changed to almost a leg dragging lameness... which also developed into a cough... but the minute she turned around to head for home, the horse was fine!). But its good to check out all the other possibilities before you jump to these conclusions.

 

[spaniel]

Im really sorry to disagree but this is verging on bunny hugging.

Horses are remarkably dim for their size and Id be much more inclined to think your horses lameness is either pain or mechanically induced rather than him thinking 'oooh Ive had enough now I will limp for a bit and get off work'. The same goes for horses who cough....if he is coughing its because theres a problem.

 

[Stasha22]

I have to agree with you, horses do not pretend to be lame for the fun of it!

 

[Dogbetty141]

Can I ask then if you think that my horse is definatley not putting the lameness on then when I got the vet out they would have found something? I do agree that maybe there is something wrong with him but what else can I do ive had his back checked the dentist the vet what else?

p.s he has not coughed once????

 

[Stasha22]

Its quite possible that the vet would not have found anything straight away, it depends how much investigative work has been done.

My horse had a 'mystery' lameness that took about 4 months to diagnose, involving various x-rays, nerve blocks, ultra sounds and MRI scans along with about £3500 off my insurers.

I was told that this lameness was all in her head and that there was nothing wrong with her when there clearly was and she has now been diagnosed.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Horses are remarkably dim for their size

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with you Spaniel. They also do not think using human emotions.....

.

 

[MrsMagoo]

Stasha - what did they diagnose in the end? Got the same prob with my girly!! They were gonna end test just saying its was in her head but now have put it down to a sacriolic injury...

 

[dixie]

Yes Stasha, tell us the problem. My horse has been lame for a month now and am just starting down the nerve block, x rays route. You could save me a lot of vet fees - my excess is £500 !!

 

[emma69]

I would be inclined to think 'real' not fake - it could be a number of things, for example (and I am not saying this is it) if he had mild arthritis, chances are he would be lame when you first took up a contact, but once he has warmed up, it would be loser, and therefore not visably lame. I would have the vet out to watch you ride (from cold) to see what he can see.

 

[Dogbetty141]

I agree with you all im not so sure it is fake now. Should I get the vet out straight away as it is only the odd days generally after he has not been out in the field all day which does suggest that maybe he has arthritis doesnt it. God im a bad horse owner thinking he would fake something like that.

He has has a previous knee ingury there which was about 10yrs ago he is 15 now. It has only just started bothering him in the past yr properly id say.

 

[eohippus]

I agree, horses do not fake lameness there is normally something going on. It oculd be that you are riding more to one side or your balance is causing this. It may be that the previous trainer is a firmer rider and holds the horse up and in balance? Try and get another good trainer out and see if that makes any difference.
hope this helps
Dawn

 

[Tia]

You're not a bad horse owner - you are just attaching human thought-processes to something which isn't human.

 

[Happy Horse]

Lord help us if ever horses get that intelligent!

 

[emma69]

And I thought a horse was bad when he managed to remove his own shoes at will

 

[dwi]

I'm going to disagree and say that some horses do pretend to be lame.

I would get the vet out and back people to check that there are no medical problems first but if they find nothing then it is a possibility.

Horses learn a vareity of tricks to get us to work in the way that they prefer. My friend's mare is difficult to catch if you are wearing riding gear because then she knows it means work, my mare used to buck on canter transitions because as soon as she bucked her last owner panicked and put her back in her stable. She is doing it less and less now because it doesn't get her what she wants.

My old instructor told me that one of the riding school ponies would go very lame as she was taken into the school for a lesson but then could be seen cantering round the field happily ten minutes later after she was turned out from sympathy. The pony concerned had learnt that looking lame meant that she spent the day in the field rather than having children bumping round on her.

I am in no way advocating ignoring lameness or at worst beating them through it. I would always get anyway problem thoroughly investigated but I do think that for some horses it can be a form of nappiness to get out of doing work.

 

[spaniel]

OK lets look at your post another way dwi....

Your mare bucks going into canter - possible discomfort which would explain why her previous owner fell off.

Riding school pony had some sort of mechanical problem which, if he had been made to work in the school, may have 'worn off' with exercise. OR badly fitting tack or back pain (very likely).

 

[Tia]

Bad behaviour can certainly be learned - however generally there is an explanation for bad behviour.....which once again takes us to the horse actually having something wrong with it.

Personally I think people give horses too much credit - they really aren't particularly clever animals.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

If the legs and back have been thoroughly checked, what is there left to look at? Quite a lot really.....poll, neck, withers...any tightness or mis-alignment will produce uneveness, which can be interperated as lameness.

 

[MagicMelon]

This is a hard one as its very hard to prove that the horse is faking it, but then if the vet can find absolutely no reason for it then what other reason could there be!

I know a horse who supposedly 'faked lameness' as he seemed to learn it got him out of work. The owners began riding him through it and he soon stopped being lame. So maybe, if you keep working him, he'll come right.

 

[monstermunch]

Its an issue I guess has to be given a lot of careful consideration. I definately disagree about horses not being very clever. I personally believe that we don't give them enough credit as they are very clever animals. However a lot of behaviour issues is your horse trying to tell you something as it is their only way of communicating with you. In my experience the majority of behaviour problems are due to some amount of discomfort coming from somewhere, and when that problem is addressed the behaviour also dissapears. However I have also experienced a few cases of learnt behaviour. Never a fake lameness as of yet but a few going backwards to get them out of work, the odd buck knowing they will be put back in their stable etc.
Never assume that a lameness is fake. There are many cases where mystery lameness can be so intermittent and become so frustrating that others can instill in your minds the theory that it is a fake lameness. I am not ruling out the possibility of fake lameness as I think that it is more than possible. However most lamness issues are indeed because there is a pain or mechanical problem somewhere with the horse. Best to exhaust all other avenues first and get your horse checked thoroughly before believing it is a fake lameness!

 

[Sal_E]

Totally disagree with dwi!!! In the 2 examples dwi has given there's perfectly sensible reasons for the problem (see Spaniel's examples...).

There are so many problem areas that it's often very hard to diagnose - in fact an old horse of mine had a problem where by he was progressively more lame in trot on one rein, depending on the level of contact & ONLY if you were on the correct diagonal - if you sat twice & rose on the wrong diagonal, he was sound. He had every test under the sun (at several place with several people) plus numerous alternative treatments, 'alternative' tack, excess work, rest, drugs, professional rider etc. The problem was never solved or diagnosed - videos were even sent to experts around the country, no-one had a clue! So, please don't think that because your local vet didn't see a lameness on the trot up, that the horse is obviously faking it!

 

[claire1976]

Horses are remarkably dim for their size and Id be much more inclined to think your horses lameness is either pain or mechanically induced rather than him thinking 'oooh Ive had enough now I will limp for a bit and get off work'. The same goes for horses who cough....if he is coughing its because theres a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, lets get one thing straight, horses are not dim, they have survived for 50 million years so thats impossible

. I do however, agree that for a horse to 'act' at being lame might be a bit far fetched. My mare can look and feel lame when she isn't and this is a balance issue with me or when her farrier hasn't placed her shoe properly because of her toeing in on one side.
Lameness always needs checking out and it is possible for a horse to feel lame but not be noticed when walking in hand. The vet would carry out flexion tests and they are the best judge of whether this lameness is anything serious or just an issue of the horse needing more schooling to loosen up and muscle up on one side.

 

[spaniel]

Sorry I was being a little simplistic for the purpose of conciseness. Compared to human thought processes horses are limited, do not have the same emotions or emotional responses and rely mostly on instinct rather than rational thought processes for their survival.

And for such a large animal they do have a very small brain.

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
Heres the thing when I ride him with long reins he never goes lame but as soon as I pick the contact up he is there swinging his head a lot higher than normal and almost pretending to be lame as he would be lame with long reins if he really was lame.


[/ QUOTE ]

As someone has pointed out sounds like what is commonly know as bridle lameness!

This is actaully very common and the horse is not really faking it. Normally relates to stiffness in the neck, back or anywhere. Could simply be you are a little tight in your hands of with the contact when you start out, or an unlevelness in the way you ride. A good indication that the problem is not in the legs(although by no means conclusive) is that a loose rein removes any obvious symtoms.

 

[Stasha22]

MrMagoo/Dixie

My mares problem was in her foot, hence why the MRI eventually shed light on the problem.

Her lameness was a bit hit and miss, some days she would be very lame and the next day she would be absolutley fine with no obvious heat, swelling etc. Becuase the x-rays and ultra sounds showed nothing the vets were a bit stumped. Nerve blocks were also a bit hit and miss as sometimes she would block to the foot and other days she wouldn't etc. Flexions were also the same, sometimes made her worse other days she would be fine! Very very inconsistent to to say the least!

At the end of about 3 months of going back and forth to the vets they told me to carry on riding her as they didn't really know what to do next. I happened to have a different vet out and spoke to her about what had been going on and she suggested the MRI.

MRI showed she had damage to the DDFT, collateral ligament and changes to the Navicular Bursa. All of these injuries could only have been found with the MRI.

Don't know about your horses problems, but if it could be in the feet I would definately recommend and MRI.

Good luck and I hope you both get to the bottom of things - I know how disheartening and frustrating it is!

 

[Dogbetty141]

Can i just say first of all thankyou for all the help.

I have spoken to my riding instructor who also schools him for through the week and she has said that when she rides him he is fine all the way through. She has agreed with people who suggested that he is bridle lame and once he is in an outline he works well and not lame once. Its a hard one really. I have had the vet out had his tack and back checked and everything seems to be ok they say i may suggest an MRI? is this a scan? not heard of that before?

It is fustrating and can i just say I have no idea where the coughing has come from he has never coughed??

thanksx