Can a horse 'put it on'?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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I'll try to be brief.

Three years ago a WB mare at my yard started to show a reluctance to go forwards. She had always been a nappy horse, but this was different. Previously, when being nappy she was extremely strong and hard to keep together, now she was bunched up and holding herself in a false outline. She started by resenting the leg going on, especially left side. Tail swishing, swinging quarters round, and basically feeling like she would 'explode' at any time. When stood still she would turn and look at her left side. She felt like she was in pain to me. Anyway, she ended up going to three equine hospitals, AHT, Rossdales and the RVC at Hatfield. Each time she went fine for their staff riding her (though she did look to be holding herself), but when her owner or myself got on in the same arena, her nappy behaviour returned and she was unridable. After £8k of tests, all three colleges concluded that her problems were behavioural. Just as she was about to be discharged from the AHT we requested that she was scoped for ulcers. She was found to have gastric ulcers in the glandular part of her stomach.

After 6 weeks of treatment with gastroguard, she returned to allowing her owner and myself to ride her. She competed in dressage and show jumping the following year and did very well, before being put in foal (has fab breeding as is by the show jumper, Orlando).

Fast forward to this year. Foal was weaned. She looks amazing but her old problems being ridden have returned. Naturally, we treated her for ulcers again and we were bringing her back into work. She was coming on well. Then her symptoms returned, and despite being on the full dose of gastroguard for 80 days, she is getting worse. We cannot even ride her more than a couple of circuits in walk before she starts. She's fine to groom, tack up, mount and to walk for a minute or two but then she starts to bunch up, turn and look at her left side etc. We have her booked in for another scope in a week's time, but if she scopes clear, then we are at a loss as to what to do next. :confused: Vet is equally stumped.

During her investigations, she had a bone scan, xrays of back and hocks, ultra sounds etc. The only thing that was found was the tiniest bit of shadow on her hock joints, but vet said it was insignificant and was not causing a problem, though they medicated the joints in any case.

I think that the vet is thinking that she is having us on, though he said there is a lot that we don't know about yet, and just because they can't find anything, doesn't mean there is no pain. He scanned her ovaries last week and they were fine.

So, back to the title question. Can a horse 'put it on'? Her behaviour is so subtle. But if you push her hard, she WILL rear.
 
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amymay said:
To that degree?? No, I don't believe they do or can.
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That's what I was thinking. If it was something like bucking or rearing, then I think that horses CAN learn to frighten a rider from continuing to ride them, but I think even then, nine times out of ten there is a pain issue. But she is so 'gentle' with it if you know what I mean. The way she looks at her side, like they do with colic, I am sure that amount of subtlety can't be behavioural. It's like she tries to tell us, but if you really push her and don't listen, she will give a few more warnings and then will rear and spin.
 
No definately not. The horse is telling you there is something wrong. I thought that glandular ulcers could a) not easily be seen via scoping and b) do not respond to GastroGard ?

My WB had low grade ulcers and one was in the pyloric region which the vet said was harder to treat and difficult to spot.

It sounds to me like the horse if it is found to be ulcers needs to be on some longterm gut supplement to assist with gut health. You may also find that the horse could benefit from the chlorella and green clay regime I have posted on here about before to restore the hind gut fauna following treatment with GG. Especially after a prolonged treatment on GG which kills this important fauna off.
I would be getting an iridology report done to find out what was going on.

Sorry just realised I am talking rubbish - glandular ulcers are of course in teh main part of the stomach not the hindgut - silly me!! This is an interesting website about ulcers and gut health.

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm
 
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YasandCrystal said:
No definately not. The horse is telling you there is something wrong. I thought that glandular ulcers could a) not easily be seen via scoping and b) do not respond to GastroGard ?

My WB had low grade ulcers and one was in the pyloric region which the vet said was harder to treat and difficult to spot.

It sounds to me like the horse if it is found to be ulcers needs to be on some longterm gut supplement to assist with gut health. You may also find that the horse could benefit from the chlorella and green clay regime I have posted on here about before to restore the hind gut fauna following treatment with GG. Especially after a prolonged treatment on GG which kills this important fauna off.
I would be getting an iridology report done to find out what was going on.
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They were quite hard to see, yes, but some were visible. They obviously did respond the first time to treatment, though she had to have much longer than usual on the gastroguard. The first 6 weeks improved her, but if I remember right, she had to have an additional 3 months on it. This time however, she started to respond, but then got worse again. Her owner would probably be interested to try the iridology. I will look into the green clay and chlorella too.
 
Hindgut fauna? I suspect they'd definitely want to go! Hindgut flora may need support however.

How is she now if you take her to other places and different people ride her?
 
jemima*askin said:
Hindgut fauna? I suspect they'd definitely want to go! Hindgut flora may need support however.

How is she now if you take her to other places and different people ride her?
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She hasn't been anywhere else since the foal was weaned. Mainly because we have been treating her and trying to get her going again. The next step I think, if she scopes clear is to take her to the vets and have her injected with local anaesthetic into her back and see if there's an improvement when ridden.

ETA: She is worse than before. I am starting to see signs of discomfort now when she is lunged, particularly with the saddle on. She is fine being lunged without tack. The saddle has been checked very recently, but we have also tried her with two other lightweight saddles that fit her well, and she is just the same. Nowhere near as bad as when ridden, but to a sharp eye, you can see her starting to bunch up and not push forward from behind, always after a few minutes, and not to start with. She didn't do this before.
 
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Fair enough, just thought it would be interesting to compare what happened at the RVC with a different rider and arenas to this time. Even if only a couple of circuits in walk.
 
jemima*askin said:
Fair enough, just thought it would be interesting to compare what happened at the RVC with a different rider and arenas to this time. Even if only a couple of circuits in walk.
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I expect that she would be the same, and rally to the occasion and let them ride her. But perhaps it is worse now and she won't. She's a very 'chatty' mare. I've never known one with such a range of vocal expressions. I think that she is pointing to where it hurts to try and tell us, but with strangers, she does not feel so confident they will understand. I've never known a horse do this before. Usually if in pain, they will show the symptoms to anyone who rides them.
 
There's also the adrenaline effect to think about in that situation also. If only they could talk:(
 
Could it be 'mare problems'? Cystitis or something similar?

I have to say I would go with your gut on this one - if she's acting like she's in pain she probably is. Have you done a bute test?
 
Does the saddle definitely fit properly? Having just been told my youngster has an off-the-scale wide back so hence his back was very sore (his way of 'telling me' was not at all subtle though!) maybe there is an issue there? Has anyone sat on her bareback and if so, is she the sa
 
...same then? To be honest, as a last resort I'd be very tempted to get an animal communicator in. Mainly as it intrigues me, won't do any harm and you never know, it could give you some more info! :-)
 
No, horses aren't capable of being that conniving. They just react. It may be though that this horse just can't deal with work/life emotionally. IMO, there are many flakey, pathetic horses, as there are people, that cry off in turmoil over getting off their backsides and trying to get on with a job. Maybe they've got a bit of a headache or backache, etc. Its not fake though, they just genuinely lack work ethic, feel unable to do anything, and fall to pieces as if everything is too much pressure. I really think that its just some horses' personality.
 
Just two general comments :)

First - re being ridden by others. With riders she is used to, she will be relaxed - they are familiar and not a threat to her. With riders who are strangers, she will be immediately on higher alert and so will release more adrenalin. Adrenalin will "mask" pain - it doesn't make it go away, it just makes it seems less important than whatever the animal believes is the more immediate threat. Vets should know this, but to be honest, the amount of behavioural information they learn is very limited.

Second - can a horse "put it on"? No. They can't, "a priori", form a plan for dealing with a specific situation. However they do learn, by trial and error, what works and what doesn't. She may well have learned, when the first set of problems was happening, that stopping and looking at her side was a way of getting your attention. That doesn't mean she's trying to get out of work - if so, she would be like this for everything she didn't want to do. So it's probably just a low key "I have a problem here and I'd like to bring it to your attention". We don't allow them many ways of communicating with us, so when they do, IMO it's worth listening, as you clearly are :)
 
Pigeon said:
Could it be 'mare problems'? Cystitis or something similar?

I have to say I would go with your gut on this one - if she's acting like she's in pain she probably is. Have you done a bute test?
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amymay said:
A Bute trial is a really, really good idea.
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We did a bute test when the problem first started a few years ago. There was no difference. The vet said not to do one this time in the light of the fact that she has suffered from gastric ulcers. I asked about 'mare problems'. The vet said not. Everything 'back there' felt in very good order. She HAS been in season a lot though. The vet said she had three follicles that had recently erupted, so back to back seasons. She always has this in the spring and early summer. She's very 'mareish' too.

ladyt25 said:
Does the saddle definitely fit properly? Having just been told my youngster has an off-the-scale wide back so hence his back was very sore (his way of 'telling me' was not at all subtle though!) maybe there is an issue there? Has anyone sat on her bareback and if so, is she the sa
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ladyt25 said:
...same then? To be honest, as a last resort I'd be very tempted to get an animal communicator in. Mainly as it intrigues me, won't do any harm and you never know, it could give you some more info! :-)
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We haven't tried bare back, no. That may be something to try.

We are having an AC come to the yard next month. Her owner is keen to have her seen by her. Will be interesting, though I am very sceptical. The lady who is coming did a distance reading on a horse we had to have put to sleep here. She had a broken femur, though we didn't know that at the time. She said her leg was sore at the top, but that her main pain was around her withers. We thought she was wrong until we had the physio who said she was extremely sore across her withers. She also described the vet to a tee, and also me! Spooky.
Flame_ said:
No, horses aren't capable of being that conniving. They just react. It may be though that this horse just can't deal with work/life emotionally. IMO, there are many flakey, pathetic horses, as there are people, that cry off in turmoil over getting off their backsides and trying to get on with a job. Maybe they've got a bit of a headache or backache, etc. Its not fake though, they just genuinely lack work ethic, feel unable to do anything, and fall to pieces as if everything is too much pressure. I really think that its just some horses' personality.
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I don't think she's ever relished her work, except for jumping, but even then, despite having scope to burn, she is not the bravest of jumpers. Sometimes when schooling her, more times than not, in fact, she has felt as though she continuously has the hand brake on. She shoots forwards to the lightest of leg aids, but does not maintain the impulsion, instead immediately slowing again. She looks incredible, but is not an enjoyable ride. I don't think she enjoys being ridden, even without her current problems.

Brightbay said:
Just two general comments :)

First - re being ridden by others. With riders she is used to, she will be relaxed - they are familiar and not a threat to her. With riders who are strangers, she will be immediately on higher alert and so will release more adrenalin. Adrenalin will "mask" pain - it doesn't make it go away, it just makes it seems less important than whatever the animal believes is the more immediate threat. Vets should know this, but to be honest, the amount of behavioural information they learn is very limited.

Second - can a horse "put it on"? No. They can't, "a priori", form a plan for dealing with a specific situation. However they do learn, by trial and error, what works and what doesn't. She may well have learned, when the first set of problems was happening, that stopping and looking at her side was a way of getting your attention. That doesn't mean she's trying to get out of work - if so, she would be like this for everything she didn't want to do. So it's probably just a low key "I have a problem here and I'd like to bring it to your attention". We don't allow them many ways of communicating with us, so when they do, IMO it's worth listening, as you clearly are :)
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Thank you. I think your analysis is very insightful.

Gryfiss said:
Just curious what is she being fed ?
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Pure Easy and micronized linseed once daily, and out on the grass 24/7
 
Friend had a horse with undiagnosed pain but seemed fine when ridden and lunged at the hospital. Vet suggested videoing when at home, both lunged with and without tack and ridden.
The tapes pinpointed the problem when seen by an expert.

I generally don't believe horses 'put it on' but the story of a family pony put up for sale amused me.
Never one to be sick or sorry until some buyers came to view and the pony came out of the stable as lame as a duck. The pony's owners were horrified so rested him and he was fine.
This scenario repeated itself three more times until the owners made the connection and withdrew the sales ad. Pony never showed up lame again.
 
horserider said:
Friend had a horse with undiagnosed pain but seemed fine when ridden and lunged at the hospital. Vet suggested videoing when at home, both lunged with and without tack and ridden.
The tapes pinpointed the problem when seen by an expert.

I generally don't believe horses 'put it on' but the story of a family pony put up for sale amused me.
Never one to be sick or sorry until some buyers came to view and the pony came out of the stable as lame as a duck. The pony's owners were horrified so rested him and he was fine.
This scenario repeated itself three more times until the owners made the connection and withdrew the sales ad. Pony never showed up lame again.
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That's a funny story about the pony, bless him.

I went to ride the mare at each of the equine hospitals. I rode her first and so they were able to clearly observe what she did, and each requested she stay with them for a few days for diagnostics. Each time, her owner would receive a phone call saying the mare was willing and cooperative! Sure enough, when going to collect her, we would observe her being ridden without problem by the hospital staff. However, though she was cooperative and well behaved, I could see that she was holding herself and not working 'through'. I tried to explain this to the vets, but they didn't seem to see what I was seeing. Maybe because I have seen how she CAN work, and they do not have that to compare to, I don't know.
 
I have always been told that horses 'can't' think like that. They only react to pain, confusion or fear. However I have known horses over the years who seem more like humans than animals with their funny ways and it genuinely was just their personality.

Have you tried getting a very, very, very good pro to school her for a couple of weeks to see if this could push her through it and find out once and for all whether it's a 'trying it on' thing or genuine pain from somewhere?

It could be the saddle? Echo trying her bareback for a while.
 
I haven't read all the thread, so apologies if you've given further info which I've missed.
I have had a mare who definitely did 'put it on'. As we were putting her back into the field one day, a stone flipped up and smacked her on the knee, she instantly was lame for a few strides. I rubbed her knee, gave a treat and she appeared fine again. I walked alongside her, at the other side of the fence to the other field gate a few strides before the next gate she went lame again, picked up her leg and waved the foot at me. It was the opposite leg!
But I don't think that your mare is putting it on Wagtail. Have you tried thermal imaging? I've never used it but have read some good reports on here and I think in your position, I would try it. As you say, if only they could talk.
ETA, just read that she is being 'fed'. I would take her off everything except grass, no matter how harmless you think that the ingredients are. The same mare had behavioural problems, with a lot of physical symptoms, and a cough. We stopped all feed and within 3 days she was like a different horse with no cough (which Ventipulmin hadn't touched).
 
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I read this post earlier and then decided to think about it all day. Before I open my mouth lots of times I've been told I have good advice. I don't think that myself really. Just that I have seen much and dealt with literally thousands of horses. So I have lots to pull from.

Do I think she's trying it on. Well not in human terms. Is resentment always a sign of pain? No. We've come a long way with horses since my day. Vet work has improved drastically to the point we can almost find something as a cause. Great. Much better for horses. Are all these causes reasons horses can't work and be productive? Not all. Lots of horses out there competing and or in daily work that have failed vettings. Some even in upper levels. There are some horses out there that have passed vettings with flying colors and can't seem to stay sound long enough to get a program going.

And then there's us. None of us want to be "those" people that "make" a horse work when there must be a reason for resentment. I raise my hand in the group of over analysing just about everything. Otherwise I'm one of those people. And when it's my own horses I'm pulling everything out of the toolbox. Sometimes I think when will my madness stop? Why am I always thinking Zebra's when I hear hoofbeats? I have a mare somewhat like this. The money I have spent vetwise is silly. But I know two things. One, I have failed her many times. I have treated her with kid gloves when I do not do this with other horses. An ear flick and I'm running down the KS, DSLD, ulcer route. Two, the arena I have at my rental is not a surface she particulary cares for. It is a tad too deep. Not injury deep. Madam just prefers a harder surface. Working in fields, other arenas, and the roads gives me a different mare. This year when starting her back I have said no more time off unless it's an actual serious problem. Even if it's just hacking, a quick lunge, a walk through fields. Don't care. Most of the resentment is because of my giving her time off because I am hurting her in my mind. I can sit here and over analyze this til I go crazy but her not being in work doesn't help. Getting her back going this year has been trying. She's an anticipator and also hates to get things wrong. And to be perfectly honest when I actually started telling her what to do by strong riding, she got better and less resentful. If this were any other horse beyond "mommy's little baby" I would have been a much better rider to her in the first place. I have always more or less treated her with the I don't want to pee her off mentality. I really think she wants and expects more of me as a rider and I did not give her that. So I have been doing my level best to be that rider. The resentful attitude is disappearing. I'm not beating her, I'm not kicking the crap out of her, I'm being definite. Sometimes horses need this in addition to our what is wrong radar.

Mare is coming back from having a foal. A foal last year. So she's had an easy life up until the training started again. Could be all the pain things. Could be trying to get over the barrier of having a work ethic again. Are you doing any stretching with her before saddle goes on? After saddle goes on? When she's done. Have to say I'm spending an extra 15 mins doing these simple things now. I think it helps. My mare stays on a stomach buffer. She was treated with GG as a baby. Longer boring story of how she tried to top herself many times before ridden work even started. So yeah I bring all that to the table when trying to asses her. Now you know why I treat her so differently. Oh and yes had an animal communocator to her as well. The woman came to read another horse. I had no intention of having any of mine read. After trying to read the intended horse we had a cup of tea. Funny thing is I think nailed the intended horse to a tee. She got nothing from him. At any rate she stopped mid sentence and walked briskly down the barn and stopped in front of my mare. She said who is this? She has the most amazing presence. Can I read her? I explained I had no money for a reading(sorry I was skeptical at best). She said she didn't charge for her gift from God. Yeah ok work away. So the first thing she said was it was her neck not head and it will not cause her any problems. Long story. I can fill in. She wanted to know about the dead sister that was a presence. No one knew about this by the way. And a few other things that were erie. Last thing she said is that Abba wished I wouldn't worry about her so much. So there you go.

Terri
 
They can't connive to fool us, but they can learn a certain behaviour leads to a certain response from us. Like PaS's horse did.

I knew a 14.2 jumping pony who would bolt with every new rider who rode her. The only way to stop her was to drop the reins and kick her on. Once you'd done that, she never did it again. She obviously was highly intelligent and had many other party tricks (squeezing you against the wall when you did the girth, or standing on your foot) so it was easy to see her above average intelligence in her other behaviour.

Your mare sounds a different kettle of fish.
 
Perfect_Pirouette said:
I have always been told that horses 'can't' think like that. They only react to pain, confusion or fear. However I have known horses over the years who seem more like humans than animals with their funny ways and it genuinely was just their personality.

Have you tried getting a very, very, very good pro to school her for a couple of weeks to see if this could push her through it and find out once and for all whether it's a 'trying it on' thing or genuine pain from somewhere?

It could be the saddle? Echo trying her bareback for a while.
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That is certainly a good idea. If we draw a blank medically, it may be the way to go. However, I would still worry that there was a real pain issue and we would be forcing her to endure something that could cause her distress.

FfionWinnie said:
They can't connive to fool us, but they can learn a certain behaviour leads to a certain response from us. Like PaS's horse did.

I knew a 14.2 jumping pony who would bolt with every new rider who rode her. The only way to stop her was to drop the reins and kick her on. Once you'd done that, she never did it again. She obviously was highly intelligent and had many other party tricks (squeezing you against the wall when you did the girth, or standing on your foot) so it was easy to see her above average intelligence in her other behaviour.

Your mare sounds a different kettle of fish.
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When she is recovering from the ulcers you DO have to push her harder so that she knows it no longer hurts. Each time she has come back into work since the diagnosis, we have done this (or rather I have because her owner is not a confident rider). But I can tell the difference between her being unwilling because she THINKS it will hurt and when it really does hurt. As I say, if you push her, she will seriously rear. I am not prepared to risk my neck when I have a yard to run single handedly.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I read this post earlier and then decided to think about it all day. Before I open my mouth lots of times I've been told I have good advice. I don't think that myself really. Just that I have seen much and dealt with literally thousands of horses. So I have lots to pull from.

Do I think she's trying it on. Well not in human terms. Is resentment always a sign of pain? No. We've come a long way with horses since my day. Vet work has improved drastically to the point we can almost find something as a cause. Great. Much better for horses. Are all these causes reasons horses can't work and be productive? Not all. Lots of horses out there competing and or in daily work that have failed vettings. Some even in upper levels. There are some horses out there that have passed vettings with flying colors and can't seem to stay sound long enough to get a program going.

And then there's us. None of us want to be "those" people that "make" a horse work when there must be a reason for resentment. I raise my hand in the group of over analysing just about everything. Otherwise I'm one of those people. And when it's my own horses I'm pulling everything out of the toolbox. Sometimes I think when will my madness stop? Why am I always thinking Zebra's when I hear hoofbeats? I have a mare somewhat like this. The money I have spent vetwise is silly. But I know two things. One, I have failed her many times. I have treated her with kid gloves when I do not do this with other horses. An ear flick and I'm running down the KS, DSLD, ulcer route. Two, the arena I have at my rental is not a surface she particulary cares for. It is a tad too deep. Not injury deep. Madam just prefers a harder surface. Working in fields, other arenas, and the roads gives me a different mare. This year when starting her back I have said no more time off unless it's an actual serious problem. Even if it's just hacking, a quick lunge, a walk through fields. Don't care. Most of the resentment is because of my giving her time off because I am hurting her in my mind. I can sit here and over analyze this til I go crazy but her not being in work doesn't help. Getting her back going this year has been trying. She's an anticipator and also hates to get things wrong. And to be perfectly honest when I actually started telling her what to do by strong riding, she got better and less resentful. If this were any other horse beyond "mommy's little baby" I would have been a much better rider to her in the first place. I have always more or less treated her with the I don't want to pee her off mentality. I really think she wants and expects more of me as a rider and I did not give her that. So I have been doing my level best to be that rider. The resentful attitude is disappearing. I'm not beating her, I'm not kicking the crap out of her, I'm being definite. Sometimes horses need this in addition to our what is wrong radar.

Mare is coming back from having a foal. A foal last year. So she's had an easy life up until the training started again. Could be all the pain things. Could be trying to get over the barrier of having a work ethic again. Are you doing any stretching with her before saddle goes on? After saddle goes on? When she's done. Have to say I'm spending an extra 15 mins doing these simple things now. I think it helps. My mare stays on a stomach buffer. She was treated with GG as a baby. Longer boring story of how she tried to top herself many times before ridden work even started. So yeah I bring all that to the table when trying to asses her. Now you know why I treat her so differently. Oh and yes had an animal communocator to her as well. The woman came to read another horse. I had no intention of having any of mine read. After trying to read the intended horse we had a cup of tea. Funny thing is I think nailed the intended horse to a tee. She got nothing from him. At any rate she stopped mid sentence and walked briskly down the barn and stopped in front of my mare. She said who is this? She has the most amazing presence. Can I read her? I explained I had no money for a reading(sorry I was skeptical at best). She said she didn't charge for her gift from God. Yeah ok work away. So the first thing she said was it was her neck not head and it will not cause her any problems. Long story. I can fill in. She wanted to know about the dead sister that was a presence. No one knew about this by the way. And a few other things that were erie. Last thing she said is that Abba wished I wouldn't worry about her so much. So there you go.

Terri
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Thank you so much for taking the time to think about my problem and provide such a though provoking answer. I will be very interested when the AC comes to the yard, especially where this horse is concerned. Your girl sounds like quite a character and it is obvious how much you think of her. I agree that the mare I am referring to has had an easy life lately. I think she would be in her element being a brood mare. It may have to be her 'career' if we can't get to the bottom of her problem, so long as it isn't something likely to be passed on, of course!
 
I don't believe horses feign the behaviour you are describing but I do believe that if not not happy in there work they can behave in all sorts of ways .
I think that most of the sort of thing you are experiencing is caused by pain but that physiological stress of caused by a whole range of things can cause all sorts of horsey weirdness.
Glandular ulcers are linked to peculiar behavioural issues , the thing with ulcers is are they the chicken or the egg are they the cause of the behaviour or secondary and something esle causes the behaviour.
In such a situation I might consider giving the horse another job for a while.
No schooling and go hacking do pleasure rides perhaps here I would try it hunting .
I do think some horses can become bored with training and competition type lifestyle.
So reading this back I realise I am being contradictory I am no but perhaps yes as an answer to your question perhaps because my head says no they are simple animals who are designed to mask injurys to aviod predation but my heart says a horse who does not like it's situation for some reason will may do many strange things as a result.
 
If she is coming back after a long break how much hacking is she doing to build her up, if she is just going in a school it may be more in her head if she is anticipating being picked up and expecting to work, it could be why she behaved better away previously, partly new rider, partly new environment.

I don't think they can put it on as such but they can certainly try to avoid something they expect to cause discomfort, tension can be enough to create pain, so in a roundabout way by being anxious they can become uncomfortable, therefore I suppose they can put it on to get out of doing something but not in the way we can.

I would change the approach, get her out hacking, on long reins if not ridden to start with, let her really think forward and relax, forgetting about schooling for a few months, presumably there are no concerns about insurance now so no time limits to worry about, give her the summer hacking about and see if that helps.
 
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