Can bute be addictive?

seoirse

seoirse

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I think my horse might be addicted to bute! He’s been on it for 7 weeks with laminitis, but is now sound and has shoes back on, he’s on one bute a day and we just can’t seem to get him off it, every time we take him off it he is dreadfully lame. I don’t see how 1 sachet a day can be the difference between sound and VERY lame. He’s about 500kgs so not insubstantial, so 1 sachet isn’t a huge dose either. He is box walking dreadfully so we are going to try and start turning him out a bit to keep him quieter. I am going to try and reduce it to ¾ sachet a day for a few days, then half, etc. But the last 2 times I’ve done that he’s got very sore within 48 hours of totally coming off it, and then is sound again within 48 hours of being back on it. I read something about bute inhibiting the bodies natural response to inflammation so when you take them off it they can’t manage the inflammation themselves even though ordinarily they would be able to.

Anyone else have any experience of anything like this? How did you get them off it??! The vet is a bit mystified and says to just keep trying to wean him off it slowly and we will get there eventually, he doesn’t seem to think there is any evidence to suggest it can be addictive, but I just don’t see how one sachet of bute is enough to make him totally sound, when he is so lame without it. I’d expect one sachet to just take the edge off that level of lameness. Confused!
:confused:
 
seoirse said:
I think my horse might be addicted to bute! He’s been on it for 7 weeks with laminitis, but is now sound and has shoes back on, he’s on one bute a day and we just can’t seem to get him off it, every time we take him off it he is dreadfully lame. I don’t see how 1 sachet a day can be the difference between sound and VERY lame. He’s about 500kgs so not insubstantial, so 1 sachet isn’t a huge dose either. He is box walking dreadfully so we are going to try and start turning him out a bit to keep him quieter. I am going to try and reduce it to ¾ sachet a day for a few days, then half, etc. But the last 2 times I’ve done that he’s got very sore within 48 hours of totally coming off it, and then is sound again within 48 hours of being back on it. I read something about bute inhibiting the bodies natural response to inflammation so when you take them off it they can’t manage the inflammation themselves even though ordinarily they would be able to.

Anyone else have any experience of anything like this? How did you get them off it??! The vet is a bit mystified and says to just keep trying to wean him off it slowly and we will get there eventually, he doesn’t seem to think there is any evidence to suggest it can be addictive, but I just don’t see how one sachet of bute is enough to make him totally sound, when he is so lame without it. I’d expect one sachet to just take the edge off that level of lameness. Confused!
:confused:
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Quote from http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/health/bute-149.shtml

"The beauty of NSAIDs such as bute is that they are non-addictive and have no mind-altering effect. There are no withdrawal problems - you can stop giving bute and provided the horse is over the initial source of discomfort, it will get on with life as normal.

Bute does not give your horse any kind of buzz. If the animal seems more laid back or perky on the drug, it more likely because its outlook on life has been improved through a reduction in pain.

It's little wonder, therefore, that vets reach for bute to ease the painful symptoms of lameness or musculo-skeletal problems.

It's important to remember that bute - indeed, any NSAID - will not fix anything. It will reduce inflammation and therefore pain, and make the horse more comfortable while its injury or problem heals. Often, the reduction in inflammation will help the healing."

As you can see the first paragraph explains that if the horse is not over the initial problem then withdrawing bute will make the situation the same as it was before.
 
applecart14 said:
As you can see the first paragraph explains that if the horse is not over the initial problem then withdrawing bute will make the situation the same as it was before.
Click to expand...



Thank you, this is what I had always thought, I am just struggling to understand how he can be SO lame without bute, but one packet a day is enough to make him sound. Normally I would expect a horse that lame to need a fairly large dose to make it comfortable and even then I wouldnt expect it to appear sound.

I have no idea where we go from here. Maybe keep him on it for a bit longer and let it do its thing and then try again in a week to wean him off it. The vet is satisfied that the damage is minimal, the trim and shoes are correct, the x-rays were good, he's recovered from the initial attack and his management is suiting him as he's not had another attack since the first 7 weeks ago, so he should now be on the right track. He is box walking badly now though so I think we need to consider penning him off in a bit outside so he's got very little access to grazing but will be with his mates and not shut in on his own so he will be quieter.

I don't know what else to do, the box walking can't go on, I think that might be why he is so sore as he is moving about much more than he ought to be at this stage.

:confused:
 
Seven weeks is no time at all in laminitis recovery.
It can take months...six months is not that unusual according to my vets.

My own horse came down with laminitis on Christmas Eve and he's just coming sound now (although his recovery has been hampered by his arthritis).

He's stil on 1g Bute every other day, although this is likely due to his arthritis rather than laminitis at this point.

Your horse obviously needs the Bute, I can't see what your vet is so surprised about :confused:
 
GingerCat said:
Seven weeks is no time at all in laminitis recovery.
It can take months...six months is not that unusual according to my vets.

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I agree totally, and if you'd have said at the beginning he'd be looking this good after 7 weeks I'd never have believed it, I thought it was going to be months before he looked sound and had shoes back on etc. He has improved masses and very quickly in the last 2 weeks too.

The vet has been keen throughout to get him off the bute but 3 times we have tried and 3 times he has gotten really sore and I've put him straight back on it. I think I am going to see how low I can get the dosage down, and then keep him on the minimum level that keeps him comfortable. No point pouring in more than he needs, but he obviously does need it. Then re-assess in a couple of weeks and see if he can tolerate coming off it then. I guess I just have to keep an eye on it and not just feed it to him automatically as there will eventually come a time when he doesnt need it all being well!

The vet has been great. I have to admit having had reservations about some of his recommendations (the shoes for one! I thought it was too soon) but we've come a long way in 7 weeks so he has been right about everything else.

He's meant to be calling me today for an update so I will raise all this!

Thanks for your input.
 
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Thank you, its heartbreaking isn't it! When he was really bad I wanted to sleep in the stable with him. Even though I was doing everything I could I hated leaving him. My poor OH was totally neglected! :p

Now horse is feeling so much better though the box walking is a nightmare, I think thats partly whats keeping his feet inflammed cos he just paces round all day once he's eaten his hay. I'm going to make him a little pen next to the others tonight and start putting him in it for 10 mins morning and evening and try to build up to a whole day if he can tolerate it. I think he will be much happier out as he usually lives out 24/7 anyway as he has always been a dreadful door kicker. He's swapped that for box walking as it obviously hurts too much to boot the door, or at least it did, and its put him off!

Thanks again for your advice.
 
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Would it be possible to put him outside on woodchip and concrete so you can control his feed ..... little and often. also have lots of piles of soaked hay laid out so he has to walk about a bit but can stand on woodchip to eat. It sounds as though he needs a pal, can this be arranged, say a big pen and a tiny sheltie, even a goat or a sheep which he can communicate with.
He still needs a deep bed but with box walking, he would wear a rut, Could tie him up while you are there and let him settle with a haynet
 
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Well he's now going out in a tiny pen for 15 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening. I have been increasing the evening session by 5 mins a day and he seems to be tolerating it and its not making him any worse. The pen is next to other horses so he's much happier in there, and there is a teensy bit of grass for him to nibble on but I don't think its enough to cause any problems.

Unfortunately I can't turn him out on our surfaced areas as he has jumped out of them in the past because he can't see any other horses from either of our arenas.

He's still on 1.5 bute a day and seems to be staying the same on this amount. The vet is keen to build the turn out up to a whole day, gradually obviously. He thinks that once he's out all day the last little bit of inflammation will then have a chance to clear up cos he wont be marching about on it all day.

I've got him on some devils claw as well as I am hoping it might help a bit! Dont suppose it can do any harm.

Not really sure what else I can do with the resources I have available. I just have to hope this works and if it doesnt then I'll have to have a rethink.

He seems very happy with life and is loving going out in his little pen, he walks really well on the softer ground in the field too, he looks almost like there isn't anything wrong with him now, its only on the concrete he is a bit slow.

Poor ned.
 
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