Can horses learn vices from other horses?

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WelshRareBit

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Murphy is a gem in the stable - apart from his over-the-door grumpyness, which Im told is almost cured.

We keep our horses in an american barn all facing each other. One horse across the way has serious issues with being in - she rears up to get over her door and now has started to weave/pace.

I was wondering this morning if horses will pick up on her behaviour - as even I find it distressing seeing her do it - and the constant sound of her hooves round and round and back and fore gets on my nerves let alone my horses but the main thing is that the others wont pick it up from her?

Anyway I dont know much about this subject, so this might be a stupid question but can horses learn vices such as these?
 
Some people say no, some people say yes.

Amy was never seen to weave until she was stabled with a horse that did.

Further, I did not consider a horse that windsucked (when looking in the summer) as we were concerned of the affect it would have on the babies.
 
I dont believe that horses copy each others vices, but of course a horse acting like that may upset other horses and cause them to behave differently, ie get stressed out themselves.
 
i think young horses are much more likely to immitate others behaviour than older ones. I think vices such as cribbing / weaving etc ae more likely to be copied than rearing and pacing in stable - would have said they wud more likely just stress th others out more than anything
 
Yes, have seen it before, but most recently had new mare and pluto in have seen snapper run her teeth up the wall a couple of times, next time pluto was in he was doing it! he had never done it b4!!
 
No, the research suggests the reason why more horses on one yard weave in comparison to another yard is that the management style is more stressful in one yard.
If horses did copy stereotypies....then there would be scope for them to copy dressage/SJ moves too....imagine how easy training would be?!
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So how does that equate to one yard where the management is more or less the same? Or does it come down then to individuals management of their horses?
 
I'll be interested in this one. When we moved Sid to the new yard he had no stable "tricks" at all. The horse opposite him chucks his head collar and other assorted items around and now Sidney does the same thing. Without a doubt copied from the other horse. Not a vice and not a major problem but certainly a learnt behaviour (and Sid is 11)
 
I think so yes. Although shes sounds very anxouis and although horses will pick up her mood I don't they will copy her behavoiur. My colt is very similar when I put shut him in the box (I've never seen something so little jump out so effortlessly!) My other doesn't really care and certianly doesn't copy.

In the barn one little horse who gets board puts her head out the door and around to the the hock with her headcollar and throws her headcollar (anything on the peg) around. Having keept two different horses in there within a fortnight they both pick this up and every moring all the horses in the barn headcollars will be found in there stable/water bucket/floor...
 
As part of my HND in Equine Science we did a section on behaviour and we saw quite a few research papers that catergorically stated that horses do not copy vices from other horses. You are more likely to get horses exhibiting the same types of behavious (vices) in one yard though as if they are all exposed to the same living conditions and therefore stress (eg restricted turn out, work load and type of work, diet or hay ration) then other horses are more likely to follow a common behaviour pattern and develop the same of other vices.

I bred from a mare a couple of years ago who is quite a severe weaver (developed before I bought her) and yet the foal doesn't show any sign of weaving at all despite having plenty of chance to copy. My ex-racer is a chronic crib biter (developed in his racing days) and has youngsters stabled either side of him. As my horses get adlib haylage, none of my other horses have shown any indication that they might also develop this habit. Vices are generally a reaction to stress, the best way of preventing them is to ensure your horse has plenty of exerecise, plenty of hay and horse toys to occupy him and is happy and healthy.
 
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So how does that equate to one yard where the management is more or less the same? Or does it come down then to individuals management of their horses?

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Well, for my sins (which are many) I've read quite a bit of research on this...and there are many theories as to what causes each stable 'vice' or stereotypy as they are known in posh sciency circles
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Weaving is a 'locomotory stereotypy' and is caused by stimulation, rather than boredom, as used to be thought. Horses weave when their desire to move is frustrated...so when they see their mates going out to the field, when they hear their feeds being made, when they feel threatened by a neighbour and want to get away etc. It isn't to do with copying other horses which it observes weaving.
There is also some evidence of a genetic component.
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I don't think so. PF windsucks like mad but none of the other horses on the yard has picked it up, even though most of them have minimal exercise and no turnout and must be bored out of their minds. Her baby (now 4) doesn't windsuck either.
Conversely, another horse has started to weave fairly recently (hardly any exercise and no turnout) but he didn't pick it up from anyone else as none of the other horses does it. I have to say that whether horses do or don't copy each other, I'm pleased he's not near PF!
 
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So I can hope then that my chilled horse will stay as such even in the face of such mare-ish madness?!

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You can hope, but if his/her parents had stereotypies, you're feeding him rocket fuel and he can see the feeds from his stable, you're giving him stingy hay rations, and you keep him in when all his fieldies are led past him to go out....and you stress him out by constantly beating him whilst riding.... then your hopes may be dashed.
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I don't think so. PF windsucks like mad but none of the other horses on the yard has picked it up, even though most of them have minimal exercise and no turnout and must be bored out of their minds. Her baby (now 4) doesn't windsuck either.
Conversely, another horse has started to weave fairly recently (hardly any exercise and no turnout) but he didn't pick it up from anyone else as none of the other horses does it. I have to say that whether horses do or don't copy each other, I'm pleased he's not near PF!

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Windsucking isn't caused by boredom....there's been shed loads of research on this...and some really interesting stuff at Bristol.
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I think they can.

There is a horse 2 stables down from Baron who paws the ground all the time.

If I tie Baron up outside that stable and walk off, Baron copies. He never does it anywhere else besides when tied up outside that horses stable, and he does not do it if the horse is not in its stable.
 
I believe they do, we have a young gelding at the stables and he always chaces the old mares off the water buckets and is generally mean to them, and my mare has never had isues with them but recently she has started to do the same as him, and is really bitchy towards them you can see her watch him and then do the same!
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I believe they do, we have a young gelding at the stables and he always chaces the old mares off the water buckets and is generally mean to them, and my mare has never had isues with them but recently she has started to do the same as him, and is really bitchy towards them you can see her watch him and then do the same!
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And you are entitled to this opinion.
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My horse weaves and is stable opposite a youngster. At the moment he weaves a lot because he has been on box rest fopr nearly 3 months. Youngster is also stabled a lot but hasnt 'copied' weaving, or started any other 'behaviours'.
Over the years my horse has been stabled opposite/near all sorts - highly strung TB's, yougsters, stroppy mares - none have 'copied'.
Obviously this is a very small sample, so is not scientifically valid, but there is plenty of research out there showing that vices are not learnt or copied... Like was stated above, if horse can copy vices, they would copy other behaviours, e.g. rearing, dressage movements etc etc.
Of course if your horse is a stressy type, is kept in a lot with little exercise, little forage and stabled where they can see others going out, there is a higher chance they may develop a stereotypic behaviour, but one of their own, not one 'copied' - by chance it may be the same as another horse, remember there is a limit to what a horse can do if it is frustrated in a stable (chew things - cribbing, run around - box walking, prance on the spot - weaving.. not much else you can do in a stable?!)
My horse has always weaved since we got him as a 3 year old and he was first put into a stable - no other horses on the yard did, so who did he 'learn' it off?
 
I dont believe cribbing or windsucking is anything horses pick up. Im not sure on weaving however.

A yard i was on years ago had a new livery arrive with a horse that weaved - always had. We didnt have any stables where it could be put away from the other horses so it was in with the rest, which meant it was stabled between two others and directly opposite a third.

The one directly opposite started to show rather distinct signs of weaving where he never had before. In the end (rightly or wrongly) the livery was asked to leave and the behaviour subsided.

TBH thats the only experience ive ever had of it and its far from conclusive, but just watching weavers makes me feel dizzy! :P
 
Yes, they do copy.

Pony NEVER weaved in her life till a weaver was stabled within sight of her, now she tries it when she sees a bucket or if shes waiting to go out and she can see you. She does it for attention.
 
If horses copied each other then id tie my colt to the schooling arena fence and let him watch me ride so when he grows up he knows how to jump, work in an outline etc lol!
 
I have had a weaver and a windsucker on the yard, and no other horses copied them - even the youngsters. However, interestingly enough, when the weaver spent two weeks at the Royal Dick Vet Clinic she was not seen to weave at all.
 
Oh, I thought it was at least a contributory factor. Diet and stress being others. I'll look it up
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Anyhow, I would've thought most of the horses at our yard are prime candidates for stable vices, especially with PF setting such a sterling example
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and yet nope.
 
yep! friends pony digs holes up in field and then waits for it to rain and the hole fills up with water. then he rolls!!

he has spent the last 3 months babysitting 2 year olds in the field, and has now taught all the 2 year olds his trick!!
 
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