Can i have some advice on loaning out my horse please?

[skychick]

You may have seen some of my posts about me and the dramas that i have had with Paddy in the 4 and a bit months that i have owned him.
After many tears, sleepless nights etc, i have come to the conclusion that i am going to put him on loan. I cant sell him, as he is so jeckyl and hyde he would end up with mr meat man (and at times....he probably has deserved that one way ticket!) but when he is lovely he is a complete star....when he is bad....he is absolutely horrid and he is so unpredictable.
People have said to chuck him in the horse sales.....but i am just the sort of person who couldnt.
So....the opportunity has arisen that i can put him out on loan to an old owner of his who had him for years and really really understood him and got on well with him so i know he will be going somewhere where he will be safe and to somewhere where he wont be passed around or mistreated. Of course i will check on him on a regular basis, even though it is 2 hours or so away.

I have never loaned out a horse before so i would really appreciate a bit of advice.
Is the BHS loan agreement enough to cover most eventualities.

Also....regarding insurance, would you advise that i keep insuring him?

If you have any other bits of info about safeguarding the horse and all parties involved i would really appreciate it.


Tea and home made white chocolate and raspberry cheesecake all round :-D

 

[bryngelenponies]

I'm currently loaning out my gelding whilst at university and as for insurance there's not much difference in cover, but that's a personal choice. I cover him for third party liability, loss of animal and vet fees (although I don't tell the loaner that I'm still covering that. Basically I'm just protecting myself and my horse so that if the loaner for any reason couldn't pay the vet fees that I could use my insurance to pay for anything expensive. The first time I loaned out my gelding I used the BHS loan agreement which worked pretty well. Obviously somethings may always surprise you, like my loaner just rang up one day and said she couldn't afford to keep him anymore, this wasn't covered in the agreement so I had to make the decision to take him back immediately because I obviously didn't want him to suffer as a result of her finances. But generally the BHS agreement is a good basis for a loan contract- you can always add things if you think of them.

 

[Happytohack]

May seem a silly question - but wouldn't the old owner (who got on so well with him) actually buy him back?

If you still want to go ahead with the loan, you must be prepared to take him back at short notice if she decides she doesn't want to keep him anymore for whatever reason. You can give a period of notice in the agreement, but when it actually comes to it, if the person having him on loan no longer wants him, for his sake you will need to find him somewhere else fast.

The BHS loan agreement is a good one to use as a basis. I would definitely keep him insured and ask her to pay for the premiums. You will then know that if anything happens, he is covered.

Can you ever see yourself wanting him back? If the answer is no, then perhaps you should try and sell him. There are lots of people who are happy to take on a quirky horse - not all of them end up with the meatman.

 

[JillA]

Horsewatch and Missing Horses on Loan advise that you add a clause to the loan agreement stating that it is forbidden to sell this horse without the express permission of the owner. If he goes missing on loan, without it the Police regard it as a civil matter, with it they see it as fraud and will take action.
And perhaps advertise him on Project Horses, and describe him honestly, warts and all, so that you get someone who knows what they are getting into and can cope. What are his problems, has he had a full physical work up for pain related issues, EPSM, gastric ulcers etc?

 

[skychick]

May seem a silly question - but wouldn't the old owner (who got on so well with him) actually buy him back?

She would but already has one competition horse and is at uni (locally) so simply cant afford to buy him. But may do in a couple of years.
She just wants to secure his future.

I have tried selling him. But...when he kicks off, he kicks off and he is a very frustrating pony.
The only interest i have had is from mothers wanting him for their kids to do coloured lead rein classes because he is "pretty" (advert very clearly states, no children) or young teenagers wanting a horse but their parents wont pay very much for one and have no experience with difficult horses.
Im not saying a teenager cant handle him at all, they probably have the bottle, but he is VERY difficult and i think they would get bored of him very quickly when they get him.

 

[skychick]

Horsewatch and Missing Horses on Loan advise that you add a clause to the loan agreement stating that it is forbidden to sell this horse without the express permission of the owner. If he goes missing on loan, without it the Police regard it as a civil matter, with it they see it as fraud and will take action.
And perhaps advertise him on Project Horses, and describe him honestly, warts and all, so that you get someone who knows what they are getting into and can cope. What are his problems, has he had a full physical work up for pain related issues, EPSM, gastric ulcers etc?

He has been on project horses advertised very honestly.....but no serious enquiries.
He napps, he bucks, he rears, he bronks, he leaps and plunges, he does not tire and will do the above for hours.
He is ok to hack out in company and alone if you put some ground work in, and is perfect in traffic. He is a good jumping pony, but take him to a show and he just doesnt stand still. You get a lot of spinning, mini rears, leaps (when he leaps we are talking hedge height massive leaps) then plunges.
Fun rides are a no go.....i did one and it resorted in concussion and permanat injury. He did his leap, plunge and rein snatch sequence for literally 4 hours solid. And it has taken 3 weeks to settle him down from the fun ride.

If something changes it sends him funny for days.
In the school he is fine, the odd leap etc.

He has had a full check for pain. Several back checks, new saddle double checked for the fitting, vet check, teeth done. etc etc.

I have traced back through his owners, he has been like it his whole life apparently :-(

Thats a very good point about putting in the contract that he cannot be sold by the loanee etc. Thank you i will make sure that goes in.

 

[JillA]

That sounds like way too much effort for a horse who is comfortable - thermal imaging might reveal something? Sorry, I am sure you have tried everything, I just know someone who had a similar horse who turned out to have EPSM, and constant muscle pain.

 

[skychick]

That sounds like way too much effort for a horse who is comfortable - thermal imaging might reveal something? Sorry, I am sure you have tried everything, I just know someone who had a similar horse who turned out to have EPSM, and constant muscle pain.

Its not constant. He can go for a week being lovely and perfect....then something upsets him, i.e another horse goes out for a hack and we go into the school....if he doesnt like it.....he turns into a deamon.
When we changed from being stabled at night to 24/7 turnout....that took a week to settle him down again.

I had him hacking on his own fine before the fun ride etc and he would happily canter/gallop around a field no probs one day. Then another day, because the cows were in the field next to it.....we would bronk and launch and leap and plunge etc our way around.

Every owner who has had him has had him extensively checked out. He was fine for owner, she did everything on him and could handle his temper tantrums but he hardly played her up at all. She works with quirky horses and has a real understanding for them and i think he just knew that she would sit to/deal with (in a kind way not in a beating up sense) anything he threw at her so he didnt. Hence.....he is going on loan to her for her to buy when she finishes uni.

But as to pain etc.....all owners have literally had him checked for everything.
We think he was started badly and has been allowed to get away with everything from day one, as when he was sold for the first time at age 7 he had fully perfected his spin rear buck technique as well as the napping etc.

 

[Happytohack]

In that case, she sounds perfect and obviously wants to have him long-term.

Ideal for Paddy, but a shame for you that you won't have anything to ride

 

[skychick]

In that case, she sounds perfect and obviously wants to have him long-term.

Ideal for Paddy, but a shame for you that you won't have anything to ride

Im really hopeing it does turn out to be perfect. I know the horse is a sod at times, but i love him to pieces and the thought of loading him onto a trailer and never seeing his gorgeous little face again is awfull hence i have abandoned the idea of selling as i was not convinced that he would go to a home for life or someone that really would be able to deal with him.
This girl is the perfect person for him and i can keep checking on him and also i can keep in contact with him and when she starts working she can then buy him so his future is secured.

Regarding something to ride.....i have been offered by the girl who works at my yard her old competition horse to ride.
I actually posted on here after this post.
The horse is only being offered to me so there is no rush to make a decision! She sounds like a lovely mare, a bit bigger than what i am used to but i really need to go bigger as i have ridiculously long legs!!
Also.....i think a few weeks break from riding to get over all of Paddys antics wont hurt ;-)

 

[Scaty_Bird]

Im really hopeing it does turn out to be perfect. I know the horse is a sod at times, but i love him to pieces and the thought of loading him onto a trailer and never seeing his gorgeous little face again is awfull hence i have abandoned the idea of selling as i was not convinced that he would go to a home for life or someone that really would be able to deal with him.
This girl is the perfect person for him and i can keep checking on him and also i can keep in contact with him and when she starts working she can then buy him so his future is secured.

Regarding something to ride.....i have been offered by the girl who works at my yard her old competition horse to ride.
I actually posted on here after this post.
The horse is only being offered to me so there is no rush to make a decision! She sounds like a lovely mare, a bit bigger than what i am used to but i really need to go bigger as i have ridiculously long legs!!
Also.....i think a few weeks break from riding to get over all of Paddys antics wont hurt ;-)

Sounds like the ideal situation for you both. He goes somewhere where you know he'll be understood and safe and you get to enjoy riding again (you were very kind to me when I had posted about my loan horse and think you said something similar to me!). Sounds like your doing the right thing for you and this horse and he is very lucky to have someone who cares so much about him even with his little quirks in life!

All the best with whatever you decide - do keep us updated!
: o )

 

[skychick]

Thank you ever so much scatty bird, i will keep you all posted.

I think its definately the best for us both. Since the fun ride and a couple of eventfull rides afterwards, i felt my confidence slipping a bit. I have tried really hard with him, seeing as i hadnt set out to have a project/quirky horse, more of a happy hacker/going to a local show type horse. When he showed his true colours, i decided that i would do all that i could to try and work things out, but after the fun ride i realised how unpredictable he could be.
The person he is going to knows all about his quirks and things, and it doesnt bother her at all. She like me wants him safe and with someone that will understand him and not get heavy handed or just keep passing him on.
She did offer to come down and help me with him, but working 6 days a week it would be very difficult as she lives over 2 hours away and its a lot to ask from her and i just wanted something that i can go for a relaxing (i dont mind fast or spooky) hack rather than having to spend most of it spinning and bronking down the road!
Although im dreading seeing him being loaded onto her trailer.....i think there are going to be a lot of tears!

Re the next horse, if the loan works out, then it will be fab. If not, then i will be spending the next few months saving pennies and looking for a very special horse that i can enjoy.