Can I have your Hoof opinions please?

[Peglo]

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Hinds

just had a new farrier out and found her really helpful but I also find your knowledge on hooves really interesting and educational. So please let me know your thoughts.

 

[Peglo]

sorry didn’t realise how dirty the floor looked and ignore muddy feet.

 

[Michen]

I think I’d suspect NPAs in the hinds

 

[Peglo]

I’ve had a read up and I don’t think I’d discount it either now you say it. Farrier never mentioned it but she has been walking on her toes. The plan atm is to get her DP and frogs stronger and happier so she’ll hopefully start using them which is similar treatment for NPA I think? She’s already on a low sugar diet.
I’ve got pads ordered for her boots which I hope will fit. I have her in easyboot Gloves which are a pretty tight fit but the pads say they can be used in all easy care boots. I’m not going to ride until I see a big improvement with her landing.

could poor trimming cause NPA? Or cause her to walk on her toes? We were thinking it could be a bit of thrush but I’m starting to wonder if the previous trimming could’ve contributed. I didn’t have any worries about previous farrier until my old horses feet started looking bad but I thought Tali’s was ok(ish) until barefoot trimmer came out at the weekend and talked me through a fair bit we need to work on.

 

[SEL]

My farrier reckons anything with NPA usually has something going on in their body.

Although I've seen some awful trimming so I wouldn't be surprised if sore feet cause upper body tension and then a vicious circle starts.

 

[Peglo]

My farrier reckons anything with NPA usually has something going on in their body.

Although I've seen some awful trimming so I wouldn't be surprised if sore feet cause upper body tension and then a vicious circle starts.

I definitely wouldn’t say her feet have been terrible but farrier said she has really good feet so if they hadn’t been good in the first place they probably wouldn’t have held up so well. Getting her feet sorted is a good place to start and see how she goes from there. I will ask the farrier about NPA when she’s next here.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Photos 2 and 4 in the first post look as if the frogs are coming out of thrush. Clean, but still building. My barefoot trimmer would bevel the hoof wall and put a defined roll on it, and take the toe a little further back, but all in all, looking good. If you are able to walk her on tarmac it will show up the wear pattern on the hoof and allow you to see where she is weighting and if she is coming into balance.

 

[hock]

I’m going to stick my neck out and I’m happy for it be shot off . I have shire x and sport horses so I am always fighting flare and flat feet and I look at these feet and would be happy especially the angles of the outer walls and then the size of the frog etc. I do like to see a rounded edge as someone mentioned. Can I ask what specifically suggests possible NPA in the hinds please? I’m looking at the hpa and don’t see a problem and I assumed you were seeing improvement from an under run sole and going in the right direction? I look at these feet and assume the horse is sound, but I am absolutely open to a different opinion and being schooled. Maybe my obsession with flare has blinkered me as I was admiring how tight the capsule was lol.

 

[Peglo]

Photos 2 and 4 in the first post look as if the frogs are coming out of thrush. Clean, but still building. My barefoot trimmer would bevel the hoof wall and put a defined roll on it, and take the toe a little further back, but all in all, looking good. If you are able to walk her on tarmac it will show up the wear pattern on the hoof and allow you to see where she is weighting and if she is coming into balance.

I am now treating for thrush so hoping to help that. The farrier wants me to soak her feet in cider vinegar twice a week for 30 mins and mentioned I could use iodine. After reading Birker’s thread I’ve taken Red’s advice and washing her frogs with soapy water and then putting salty water on daily.

@hock she’s landing toe first and wearing her toes down. The last farrier kept her toes quite short so there isn’t much to work with until we can get her more comfortable on her heels.
after my old TB, her feet have always looked pretty good to me and think that’s why I initially didn’t notice things weren’t quite right.

 

[hock]

I am now treating for thrush so hoping to help that. The farrier wants me to soak her feet in cider vinegar twice a week for 30 mins and mentioned I could use iodine. After reading Birker’s thread I’ve taken Red’s advice and washing her frogs with soapy water and then putting salty water on daily.

@hock she’s landing toe first and wearing her toes down. The last farrier kept her toes quite short so there isn’t much to work with until we can get her more comfortable on her heels.
after my old TB, her feet have always looked pretty good to me and think that’s why I initially didn’t notice things weren’t quite right.

Right so landing toe first to counter act the pressure from the suspected dropped pedal bone? Which back in the day we’d have called navicular “syndrome”. This is very interesting to me. So the landing toe first diagnosis had that come from seeing her walk or from hoof wear as I see a little wear on the hind toe but it looks subtle to me - but I wouldn’t have looked for this before. I’ve seen plenty of horses square one or both hinds off and the usual suspect being some sort of changes. But then I think well it could still be changes but caused by the pedal bone.

 

[hock]

My farrier reckons anything with NPA usually has something going on in their body.

Although I've seen some awful trimming so I wouldn't be surprised if sore feet cause upper body tension and then a vicious circle starts.

What sort of thing does he think? Cheers

 

[Peglo]

Right so landing toe first to counter act the pressure from the suspected dropped pedal bone? Which back in the day we’d have called navicular “syndrome”. This is very interesting to me. So the landing toe first diagnosis had that come from seeing her walk or from hoof wear as I see a little wear on the hind toe but it looks subtle to me - but I wouldn’t have looked for this before. I’ve seen plenty of horses square one or both hinds off and the usual suspect being some sort of changes. But then I think well it could still be changes but caused by the pedal bone.

I will answer as best I can but I’m a little out of my league here happy to be corrected.

the farrier noticed the wear on the front of her toes when she looked and I Confirmed I thought she was walking on her toes. I should’ve tried to get a slow mo video of her when I had my suspicions. Tali was wearing one side of her hoof more than the other but these pictures were taken after farrier evened them out a bit

She didn’t mention much about her hinds but I think she is also avoiding using her heels on her hinds. Michen mentioned NPA above so will need to check with farrier what she thinks and if I need to look into this. I’m hoping it’s just a bit of thrush and that’s why shes landing on her toes to avoid pain there but glad of the opinion so can rule it in/out.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I had years of thrush battles over a four or five year span, and must have used every off the shelf preparation known to man. The turning point was when my farrier examined the thrushy feet, high heels, and obvious wear on the toe area and said it was probably normal for a cob who mainly lives out. Switched to a barefoot trimmer who started a slow programme to bring his heels down, boots and pads to increase frog pressure and get circulation going, and eureka! the thrush started to clear. Then it was evident that his heel bulbs were also increasing in size and doing their job, and six months down the line the horse was much happier and placing his feet properly.

 

[hock]

I had years of thrush battles over a four or five year span, and must have used every off the shelf preparation known to man. The turning point was when my farrier examined the thrushy feet, high heels, and obvious wear on the toe area and said it was probably normal for a cob who mainly lives out. Switched to a barefoot trimmer who started a slow programme to bring his heels down, boots and pads to increase frog pressure and get circulation going, and eureka! the thrush started to clear. Then it was evident that his heel bulbs were also increasing in size and doing their job, and six months down the line the horse was much happier and placing his feet properly.

Very interesting! So was the high heel making the foot boxy/clubby? I have tried a few times to use barefoot trimmers (I have all mine barefoot) but they all developed a long toe and lost the heel. I can see why increasing the blood flow would help with thrush but touchwood not had the problem. I am trying to learn as much as possible about feet the problem is there’s at least 2 if not 100 opinions on such a complicated and holistic subject.

 

[Highmileagecob]

The cob was purchased at rising eight with a boxy/club foot. Told by the owner that he went sound, and no problems noticed. As a person who trusted farriers to look after feet, I felt I couldn't challenge the repeated trimming of the boxy foot into a boxy foot shape. Discovering the Hoof Rehab site was a revelation and I began to learn, and question.
Take a look at Cavallo's Barefoot Trim video on line. It is a masterclass trim by a farrier who explains every step of the way what he is doing and why. I now ask my trimmer to leave a shallow collar of hoof wall level with the bars, and she levels the wall and bars to the depth of the frog, thus leaving a protective cage around the back third of the foot. The wall is taken back almost the the white line, and mustang rolled, and a few swipes of the rasp level the entire hoof.

 

[Red-1]

I didn't reply on this thread as I thought they looked OK for hooves in transition!

With these, I would be dry scrubbing daily with a stiff brush, there are 3 frogs that look a little thrushy so I would put a preparation on. Mostly, I would pick the life out of them, right into every crevice. If it is soft enough for a hoof pick to go in, it needs to come out. I even use a brad awl for thin cracks, although I am more circumspect with those as they are sharper. I use them more to widen the crack to be able to scrub with a dry brush and apply product. My goo of the moment is Hoof Doctor. I would use that a couple of times a week on all of them, but on the suspect frogs daily until they are suspect no longer.

What I would do most with these is a little road walking. I find nothing better for frog health. I start with just 100yds and work it up from there. I have a rule where I turn back immediately if they do 2 gimpy steps even if that is almost as soon as they are out of the gate. I trim pretty much every time we go for a road walk, just run a rasp round so they have the corners removed.

I am always amazed just how much a short road walk improves the quality. Often, I will ride out with boots and a soft rucksack. On the way home, I stop and pull the boots, stow them on the rucksack and had walk home on the road.

When starting road walking, I find that often the frog gets a centre crack that then widens out. The frog then opens up like a flower and becomes wider. Beautiful!

I rarely trim the heels if they have any discomfort. Just for balance. Once they are heel first landing the heels then seem to trim themselves a lot more.

 

[Peglo]

Thank you Red. I got her almost 2 years ago. She pulled 2 shoes off before I got the farrier out and got the other 2 off 3 weeks after I got her. I was thinking to put them back on once she’s settled in here but ended up not bothering. So she’s been barefoot since.
She seemed fine on the road to begin with but after a while thought I needed boots. Got boots around a year ago and they helped for a bit.

TBH I maybe should’ve realised the farrier wasn’t quite right for us but (I know) he was expensive at £40 for trims and her feet looked quite good so thought things were ok.

She’s had 3-4 months off any work over the winter and I’ve just started doing in hand hacks with her when I realised she was slowing at about 3k in her boots.
She has to do about 200m on tarmac to get to the field from the stables so she has been on tarmac but as she’s avoiding using her heels now they aren’t getting stronger. Hopefully thrush treatment will help and glad a few of you picked up on it too. I often don’t put boots on when I nip to the beach and I have a little bit of road work to get there so that’s a good hack to get her on the road for a little bit.


@Highmileagecob I’m glad to hear pads in your boots have helped so much with yours. It’s giving me a lot of hope that I can get her more comfortable. I feel like I’ve learned a lot already since I had the new farrier out on Sunday so thank you everyone for your input.

 

[Michen]

Sorry! Haven’t checked back in. My comment was based on what (in my completely unprofessional opinion) are under run heels behind that just remind me of what bears looked like when he had them.

Tbh, I would just get some x rays done of his feet. I tend to do them yearly, it’s really useful. Equally Boggle went through a period where I was convinced he had NPAs the angle of his coronet band to limbs was so steep, but his were great on x ray.