Can i pick your brains about backs......

[skychick]

Right....i will start from the beginning.

I bought my new horse in march. Tried him he was perfect etc. Got him home and after a week discovered he was a nappy so and so (this is not relevant to the back querey....but helps to explaing the situation further!) so i contacted the person who owned him before the girl i bought him from who had only had him 6 months. The girl i spoke to had owned him for 4 yrs and done everything on him. Speaking to her it transpired he hadnt been ridden for over 3 months.
I had known he had not been doing much work but i was told it was because of bad weather/dark evenings and gcse studying.

Anyway....so he comes to me after not being ridden for a while. He was brought into work fairly gently as in 20 mins work 4 days a week and been built up to 1.5 hours + if hacking and 1 hour in the school if schooling. We generally ride 5/6 days a week normally one hack one school one hack one school etc.

I had his back looked at when he first came (2 months ago) by the person who does most of the peoples horses on the yard. I believe a physio. All was aparently fine.

His saddle is not fitting him brilliantly....it is a bit too long for him. Its a 17.5 inch on a 14.2hh medium build pony. So it comes a bit too far back and it is a bit tight just below his whithers. I personally think its a bit tight behind his shoulders too....anyway...to cut a long story short....he is having a new one next week. A leather one not synthetic.

When ridden....he carries his head quite high...he didnt used to do this. I cant get him to soften onto a contact. He sort of runs through corners a bit and when doing transitions i get a lot of head in the air etc.

When grooming...he does not like being groomed on one side of his neck more than the other. He gets tectch when grooming his back/sides and swishes his tail and either tries to bite or stamps his foot (he can be a bit of a grumpy so and so!)
Whe i go to tack him up he now puts his ears back and generally looks grumpy.

He is certainly not a strong pony....ridden in a french link snaffle (hanging cheek) and has pretty good breaks. But recently i have noticed him not necessarily get stronger so much as just putting his head up and avaiding the bit a bit.
His saddle has rubbed a patch on his back where the back end of the saddle sits, definately more on his left side. Its not rubbed it raw....just worn the hair a bit...this is what has kick started the new saddle. I feel that this saddle sways a bit...he isnt particularly broad backed or barrel like.

He is a tiny bit head shy....aparently he wasnt before the girl i bought him from had him so not sure whether something happened whilst he was with her...or whether its something to do with his back.

He is not lame.
He doesnt bend particularly well...(prob more from the lack of schooling before i got him) and he refuses to work on a soft outline.
He never flinches when i put the saddle on. He isnt cold backed when i get on. He does like to blow himself out when i do his girth up...but he is just that sort of pony....a cheeky so and so!

I have run my hands/fingers down his spine and around his back....there is no obvious sore spot. He gets a bit funny about his neck if i poke too much...but that could be grumpyness ;-)

He is having his teeth done at the end of the month, and his jabs so the vet will be out then.
His saddle is being done next week.

So....do you think he could have a sore back/back problem??? if so.....who do you think would be the best person to deal with it after i have seen the vet?
Or does it sound more like it is probably an issue relating to his saddle??

Any help/advice/thoughts really apprecitaed.

Glasses of champagne, strawberrys and chocolate cakes all round for reading my essay.

 

[Kenzo]

From everything you have said, I would be suprised if he didnt have a sore back, I would have a back person out asap, I'm sure with some work, bit of time off, a saddle that fits well, he's be fine and in good working order again.

Everything you have said describes a sore back and the longer he's been like this, the time it will take to sort the muscles out and loosen everything back up again, but you'll get there, get someone out to see him, otherwise your new saddle won't benefit him in anyway.

 

[skychick]

A few people disagree with me and say that he doesnt have a bad back....including someone who has a horse on the yard and she is a "back person"...i put it in speech marks like that as im not sure whether she is a physio, chiro or osteo... im not being rude! They just say he is grumpy...of which he can be...he is not a "cuddly" pony as such.

He has had the saddle he is in for about 5 years. But it would figure that at the start i didnt notice anything as he had had 3 months off.
I have probably over dramatised his symptoms a bit in my post.....but i didnt want it to be something like kissing spines or along those lines as i have never had any dealings with a horse with kissing spines so may not recognise the symptoms in the same way that people on here might. (i know i am a hypochondriact!)

So....what sort of back person would be best.......chiro or physio??

 

[Kenzo]

A few people disagree with me and say that he doesnt have a bad back....including someone who has a horse on the yard and she is a "back person"...i put it in speech marks like that as im not sure whether she is a physio, chiro or osteo... im not being rude! They just say he is grumpy...of which he can be...he is not a "cuddly" pony as such.

He has had the saddle he is in for about 5 years. But it would figure that at the start i didnt notice anything as he had had 3 months off.
I have probably over dramatised his symptoms a bit in my post.....but i didnt want it to be something like kissing spines or along those lines as i have never had any dealings with a horse with kissing spines so may not recognise the symptoms in the same way that people on here might. (i know i am a hypochondriact!)

So....what sort of back person would be best.......chiro or physio??

She could be right, however it would make sense to double check, just because this person at your yard says it not, doesnt mean she's right but hopefully she is. Either way I'd still have him looked at, put it this way, what harm would it do? besides any good saddle fitter would ask the same, specially if given what you have said.

I think they should all be checked from time to time, after all some horses cope with niggles, where as others will show you is something is niggling them, others will put it with for so long and then hit real problems years down the line.

 

[jhoward]

it sounds to me like your saddle is causing 99% of your issues, a good way to always tell is hop on bare back and see how your pony feels without it.

There is a good chance that the current saddle has caused some mucsel issues, and the feelign of him being strong when asking him to slow down is obvious, think of what your body does... bit of gripping with your knees/seat (lol will say here im hoping your half halting) but thoose actions will instantly put pressure on the front of your saddle, especially if horse is head up and on the forehand.

1st thing.. regardless of when saddle fitter is coming.. do NOT put the saddle back on the horse. can you do longreining etc? pessoa? poles? all these things will start to hep to rebuild the muscels. (btw does he have dips either side of his withers?)

back person wise.. osteo or physio.. if you cant find an osteo then physio, as i would think aswell as on the front end he will also have a bit of soreness at the back of the saddle area where the saddle is a bit to long.

 

[skychick]

Kenzo and Jhoward thanks for your help.
I definately think its down to the saddle too. Not only that...the wretched saddle is really hurting my back too!
I am tempted to try riding him bareback....but having only had him 8 weeks and him having a tendancy to be a bit nappy at times....and when he is he does like to chuck in a MASSIVE buck ;-) i havent ridden him bareback yet as i dont fancy my chances with out a saddle!!!!!
Kenzo.....i definately want him checked out....i would hate to think of him as being in pain and also i dont want to do any damage to him. I definately think there is an issue...he isnt just being grumpy. Like i said he isnt a cuddly pony...but he has just been a bit more "tetchy" recently.

Jhoward...i do naturally now half halt when doing downwards transitions....my previous horse a few years ago was MEGA strong...so i had 3 years of half halt practice!
No he doesnt have dips either side of his whithers? what would that indicate? my previous horse did.

I shall get looking for an osteo. Am i right in thinking these are almost a bit of both?

 

[jhoward]

alot of dipping around the withers, is often a big indication of muscel wastage.

its only a week till the saddle fitter, why not do a week of ground work?

yes an osteo is a bit of both.

 

[fireflymac]

I'd agree strongly that you should absolutely not put the saddle back on him. A week of ground work will do him no harm and possibly a lot of good. Even if it was a month before the new saddle was coming, it's unfair to knowlingly ride in a saddle that causes discomfort to your horse.
The fact that he reacts differently on each side of his neck suggests he may have a problem there, which could perhaps be a result of carrying himself awkwardly trying to avoid discomfort from the saddle.
Do definitely have him checked as well as having a new saddle fitted in case things are out of alignment or there are muscular issues.
I can't stress enough, though, to stop using the saddle that doesn't fit. Badly fitting saddles can easily cause long term damage and psychological problems.
Good luck - I hope you find he's happy in his new saddle and the problems you are finding disappear. Teeth check is a good idea too, btw.

 

[skychick]

Thanks for your replies. Sorry for not commenting sooner....was in bed with a wretched migraine all day yesterday :-(
On wednesday night i had a good look at his withers......definately no dipping. And i gave him a full on check over to see if i could find any sore points. I couldnt find one area where he seemed sore.
His teeth are booked in to be done in about 10days time. They were done 9 months ago. But with his previous owner....so am looking forwards to my vet doing them, he is exceptionally through.
Am now back on the hunt for a good local osteo!

 

[Bojangles]

Im going though the same as you now. Ive been riding bareback for a month now as the saddle has caused so much damaged he had a week off he had vet and sports massgae person to him which seems to be helping. Like in op said about the phys sp?? damage to their mind is also a big facture to take into ancount as that's what Im strugging with mine now as he still think's he can't move without being in pain!! I wouldnt use the saddle again.

 

[skychick]

Bojangles sorry to hear that you are having problems too with your horses back.

I might try riding bareback tonight....which could prove interesting for anyone spectating...as he is a little monkey at times....if he doesnt feel like doing something he does a wonderfull spin and buck! so i may get the video camera out....(£250 from you've been framed would be wonderfull to put towards new saddle!!)

I shant ride him again untill the new saddle next week.

 

[ester]

If his saddle is too tight behind his withers it is likely to be causing him to hollow, which would be why he is sticking his head up.

Also be aware I know you said you could run fingers down him etc... ponies tend not to shout about stuff as much as horses, they can be excellent at just getting on with it and I found with mine its only when I knew him for longer that I can preempt when something is up. For instance mine is getting the chiro this afternoon. I have video of him doing an elementary test last weekend on hard ground and he looks perfectly fine, all his mediums are level etc. However if I canter on a hack in a straight line he is favouring the left lead, normally he changes half way down our half mile stretch now he is changing after 10 strides so something is uncomfy, but its not immediately obvious (its a good job I do long hack canters or I woudlnt know!)

Can you lunge/long rein him?
I would sort your new saddle and get him seen by someone recommended (poss by your vet). Be aware that you will probably have to get your new saddle reassesed quite quickly to start with as hopefully he will find new muscles.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have just had my horse checked over by a physio and I am very glad that I did. Although I had checked him over thoroughly myself, had his teeth done and saddle has been checked, she found several sore and tense areas. His back looks a lot more relaxed now.

If you have a physio and she doesn't find any problems then you can look elsewhere. But start out with a good physical check with a veterinary physio who will want it cleared by the vet first (they don't usually say no unlesss there is a clinical reason).

 

[Herts05]

Did you have him vetted prior to buying him?

I would agree with all posts that you should not use the saddle until it has been checked first.

I would certainly suggest you get your horse seen by a good osteopath. They will be able to look over the whole horse - not just their back. By the way - expect that the osteopath will want to contact your vet first for their permission to treat the horse.

Good that you are also having teeth checked. Good luck!

 

[skychick]

If his saddle is too tight behind his withers it is likely to be causing him to hollow, which would be why he is sticking his head up.

Yeah i think this is what he is doing. ^^^
Also after he has been in a lesson for a while or out hacking for some time he seems to snatch at the bit a bit and streatch his head right down to the ground.
He is a bit stiffer on one rein than the other, he doesnt like striking off on the correct canter lead on the right rein (except when he is jumping then he does it perfectly every time!!!)....but we (myself and my instructor) think this could well be down to a lack of schooling in recent years.

I could try lungeing him (i havent lunged for a few years now....previous horse behaved like a prat on the lunge, cantering and bucking the whole time regardless of who tried lungeing so i havent had a lot of practice of late!!) but i do have all of the gear (except side reins which the mice ate last winter) so i could give that a go tonight. I think that could be more successfull than trying to ride him bareback!!

 

[skychick]

Did you have him vetted prior to buying him?

No i didnt *waits for all of the comments in horror*

He wasnt a huge amount of money so i didnt get him vetted. I know thats not a reason....but if we were talking £5000 then yes i would have.
I thoroughly checked him myself....i.e heart rate, full external examination, watched him trotted up on hard and soft ground. Then after excercise and rest a final trot up. Checked eyes, ears, checked for noise when ridden etc. checked all 4 legs for stiffness when lifted/stretched. Checked for any splints, spavins, heat etc any lumps and bumps and signs of conformation defects.
But no he wasnt vetted.

 

[RobinHood]

I'd be inclined to put him in the field and not work him until you can get a physio out. If he's sore somewhere he'll be compensating when he moves which will make him sore in other places too. For example if the saddle is making him hollow then he's likely to be sore at the base of his neck, and if he's getting the wrong canter lead there could be some tightness in his hindquarters.

I was riding one of mine in a saddle that I knew wasn't ideal (bit too much movement at the back) however he was checked every 4 weeks by a physio who said don't worry it's not bothering him. He didn't feel quite right so once I was back from uni I got my usual physio to look at him. Turned out he was very sore on the left side of his back and the top of his right hindquarters. She treated him and said he'd need doing again 2 weeks later, possibly under sedation if little improvement. I immediately changed the saddle and 2 weeks later the physio came back and pronounced him 100%. Moral of the sorry, don't underestimate the importance of a well fitting saddle.

 

[DressageDiva1983]

i am having the exact same problem as you, reading your post was like reading about my horse, but mine throws rears in willy nilly too. My vet had just diagnosed deep seated bruising to his back muscles. 2 weeks off work on 2 bute a day should sort it i am told. I am taking this 2 week break to sew back together my frazzled nerves!

 

[skychick]

He will have had a week off by the time the saddle person comes next weds. Im hopeing i might be able to get someone out to see him early next week before they come but that is proving a bit tricky now seeing as its friday and i am away on monday on a course :-(
So may have to get the new saddle and get someone to come out and treat him afterwards.
Oh dear dressagediva1983....hopefully by the time he has had hit 2 weeks of your nerves will be sewn backtogether and you will be fine again!
Paddy bucks and mini rears.....but luckily only when i try to hack him out without another horse to protect him from the mega scary hedge monster that he thinks is out to get him if he hacks alone ;-) so i now fund that quite funny....but random ones are no fun at all.