Can I prove my horse was a wind sucker before I bought him?

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Munners

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This is a long story but I basically bought a horse five weeks ago, he is the total opposite of what was stated in the advert. He broncs, barges, won't load, is terrible in traffic, difficult to catch this is just a few off my list!!

He's been at the vets for a week as is constantly lame and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. He also wind sucks terribly and I've been advised because of the way he's doing it he will have been doing it a long time. Is there anyway I can prove he did this beforehand?

I have sought legal advice and am going through the courts to have the horse returned as I am a novice and cannot cope with him but I can not sell him on due to his nature.

Any advice gratefully received!

Many thanks.
 
I believe it has an impact on their teeth so maybe an independent dentist assessment would be useful evidence in court if they could confirm that the damage to his teath was incurred more than five weeks ago?
 
From reading your other post about lameness, where the vetting question was asked, I'm assuming you didn't.

Interestingly a vetting would probably have picked up that he could potentially be a windsucker...

But a few things. Did you specifically ask about vices (I know that they should be declared, but you should also ask the question)?

Did the advert state he was good in traffic, and did you try him in traffic?

If he doesn't load, how did you get him home when you bought him, to your instructors and to the vets?

Being bad to catch is a pain in the bum, but not a returnable 'offence'. But again did you ask what he was like to catch?
 
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amymay said:
From reading your other post about lameness, where the vetting question was asked, I'm assuming you didn't.

Interestingly a vetting would probably have picked up that he could potentially be a windsucker...

But a few things. Did you specifically ask about vices (I know that they should be declared, but you should also ask the question)?

Did the advert state he was good in traffic, and did you try him in traffic?

If he doesn't load, how did you get him home when you bought him, to your instructors and to the vets?

Being bad to catch is a pain in the bum, but not a returnable 'offence'. But again did you ask what he was like to catch?
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Firstly I am a novice and have a huge amount to learn! I didn't have him vetted and am paying for it dearly now....

Yes I asked about vices time and time again, and was told he had none. Yes the ad stated he was very good in traffic, I tried him on the roads there to which he was fine, I've put it down to him being in a new place but it hasn't got any better.

When we loaded him on collection day he was a pain to load, wouldn't go in, he reared, and ran off at one point. The seller said it was because it was a new trailer and would be fine once used to it, but since getting him home I've realised that is not the case and he just doesn't want to go in. I am lucky to have lots of help from family and friends otherwise I would be completely stuck.

He sounded too good to be true in the ad I should have realised then that that was the case!
 
wench said:
Was it a private seller or dealer? If private you have no legal right to send back.
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PandorasJar said:
Was he tried and vetted???

If sold as seen and the ad doesn't state that he 'doesn't windsuck' I doubt you'd have come back...
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Neither of these are correct. Windsucking is a declarable vice, meaning the the owner HAS to mention it if the horse does it, and private or dealer the horse is returnable if it does windsuck and did before it was bought.

Trouble is, you have to prove it.

I hope you have plenty of tooth wear to give witness, OP. It sounds like you've been done to with this horse.
 
Sounds like he is taking the P with the hacking if he can sense you are nervous etc. Has anyone else ridden him for you prior to him going lame?
 
That's interesting. Where are declarable vices listed? Aside from a moral stand point I didn't realise anything had to be declared.
Presumably this has to be in writing too?
 
Yes he wind sucked from day one!, I've been told that if it isn't declared then you can claim some money back or have the horse returned.

I've had a couple of experienced people ride him for me.

I'm at a real loss as to what to do as the horse isn't going to get much better with the suspensory ligament damage so looks like I have a very expensive field ornament!
 
Munners said:
Yes he wind sucked from day one!, I've been told that if it isn't declared then you can claim some money back or have the horse returned.

I've had a couple of experienced people ride him for me.

I'm at a real loss as to what to do as the horse isn't going to get much better with the suspensory ligament damage so looks like I have a very expensive field ornament!
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Told by who? Get proper legal advice if you haven't already.

I'm interested to see where declarable vices are as I've only known it to be so for sales. Didn't know it was for general selling too.
 
cptrayes said:
Neither of these are correct. Windsucking is a declarable vice, meaning the the owner HAS to mention it if the horse does it, and private or dealer the horse is returnable if it does windsuck and did before it was bought.

Trouble is, you have to prove it.

I hope you have plenty of tooth wear to give witness, OP. It sounds like you've been done to with this horse.
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I agree, with everything that's happening with the horse I think I've been done too! The dentist is checking his teeth today or tomorrow.
 
PandorasJar said:
That's interesting. Where are declarable vices listed? Aside from a moral stand point I didn't realise anything had to be declared.
Presumably this has to be in writing too?
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Stable vices ie Box Walking, Winsucking, Crib Biting, Weaving are declarable vices and classed as unsoundness. If you put the horse in a warranted sale you would have to declare these vices otherwise the horse would be returned as unsound. It makes no difference if you're a private or trade seller, you have to tell potential buyers of the vice.
 
Clippy said:
Stable vices ie Box Walking, Winsucking, Crib Biting, Weaving are declarable vices and classed as unsoundness. If you put the horse in a warranted sale you would have to declare these vices otherwise the horse would be returned as unsound. It makes no difference if you're a private or trade seller, you have to tell potential buyers of the vice.
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My question is where these are listed.
 
Don't write him off as a field ornament just yet.. I know of a horse who had that injury in both his back legs, and he did come right eventually although he'll never be much more than a happy hacker, it was just a lot of time and patience involved.
I think about 12-18 months, could be a long haul, it's whether your prepared to wait that long?
 
If you bought from a dealer you may have some protection under the Trade Descriptions Act. ie. Not fit for purpose. Private sales are more difficult, you have to prove "misrepresentation". The crucial thing here is to be able to prove the horse acted in this way PRIOR to purchase, and the burden of proof is on yourself.
You may be entitled to free legal advice on your horse or house insurance or through the BHS if you are a member. Incidentaly, I owned a horse for 18 years which the vet described as having crib biters teeth - it never did crib bite.
 
Right, first off, Devil's Advocate. It is perfectly possible that he never windsucked while with the seller. Windsucking is a response to stress and environment, and it may be that they were perfectly truthful in not mentioning it if he never did it with them. He has now had the upheaval of a move, the stress of travelling and the uncertainty of having to come to terms with a new yard and new horses, which may have been enough to set him off.

For the record, if he is holding on to something and gulping, that's crib biting not windsucking - windsuckers can do the behaviour without gripping anything with their teeth (and so can have undamaged teeth). Both are linked to digestive problems.

WRT the bad in traffic/to ride out - you didn't have the horse vetted, so no bloods were taken, but it could well be that they buted the horse up for you to try and so he was fine to hack. Now he's at your place, and has been diagnosed with a serious - and painful - lameness. Hardly any wonder he's not wanting to be ridden out? Additionally, pain increases adrenalin, so things that aren't scary when you (or a horse ) are not in pain become much harder to deal with when you are - hence probably both the traffic and the loading isses.

It's not a straightforward situation, and I think you need to make the best of a bad situation. You may well find that when the horse settles, and is no longer in pain (get the vets to check for ulcers while they're looking at the lameness), he is pleasant to handle, doesn't windsuck and is easy to hack. You may well find he doesn't change at all, of course.
 
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PandorasJar said:
Told by who? Get proper legal advice if you haven't already.

I'm interested to see where declarable vices are as I've only known it to be so for sales. Didn't know it was for general selling too.
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Hi I've had legal advice, and they told me that if I can prove he wind sucked before I got him then they have to take him back and return my money or refund part of my money due to the fact it reduces his value.
 
I think declarable vices only apply to sales and it is the individual sales house rules that state what has to be listed/ non listed in relation to the specific warranty that the saleroom will give you.
For general sales (private or dealer) there is no such thing in English law and if it's not the law what rights are there for it to be enforced???
Trades description is the only law you have for a dealer sale
 
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