Can KC Individual Inbreeding Coefficient calculator be wrong?

brighton16

New User
Joined
7 September 2018
Messages
1
Visit site
Hi all,

I had suspected that my previous dog's health conditions may have been down to genetic issues. She suffered from allergies (including a flea allergy that was off the scale and the specialist had said she had never seen one so bad), dry skin, ingrowing eyelashes, dry eyes, slipped discs, cruciate ligament disease, conjunctivitis, constant bladder and eye infections, thats what I can recall off the top of my head. She was recently PTS for kidney and liver failure aged 12.

However, her family tree seemed to show relatively little inbreeding, a cousin mating here or there. I accidentally stumbled upon KC inbreeding coefficient tool. I entered her name and was shocked to find a 24.8% COI, effectively equivalent of a father-daughter mating. Her father has a coefficient of 0.1% and mother 10.3%. Although it might explain her health conditions, I just can't see how it can be right? It just doesn't seem to match the family tree I have for her.

We thought we were just unlucky with her health conditions and we have contacted her breeder for another puppy, which is due in the new year. However I now have serious reservation about going back to them if this COI is correct.

I'm not a breeder or anything, just a curious former pet owner.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thank you!
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
What breed are you talking about here? You might be better posting this in All About Dogs?

The Kennel Club are not the best at being accurate.......
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,236
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
If you tell us the breed, someone may be able to better guide you.
The KC system only recognises dogs registered with the English Kennel Club. Imported dogs (Germany, Ireland etc) don't factor in the results.
Also the KC is a dog club, not a true registry as it does not collect or keep DNA for identification purposes. You just have to trust that the names written on the pedigree are correct.

Admin can this be moved to AAD please?
 
Last edited:

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,236
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
Ok, mine isn't KC reg but both his parents were.

On KC system both show as 0.2%

On the actual breed registry (using DNA) my dog himself shows as 0.39%
(He has two separate males at 5-5)

Sire 0.20%
(One male 5-5)

Dam 0.00%
(No common ancestry)
 
Last edited:

MurphysMinder

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2006
Messages
17,771
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
If you tell us the breed, someone may be able to better guide you.
The KC system only recognises dogs registered with the English Kennel Club. Imported dogs (Germany, Ireland etc) don't factor in the results.
Also the KC is a dog club, not a true registry as it does not collect or keep DNA for identification purposes. You just have to trust that the names written on the pedigree are correct.

Admin can this be moved to AAD please?

As CC says, the KC system is flawed because it doesn't recognise overseas dogs. Both my GSDs have a high proportion of german dogs in their pedigrees and their inbreeding coefficient according to the KC is way out.
 

MotherOfChickens

MotherDucker
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
16,641
Location
Weathertop
Visit site
was your bitch a medium- large type breed and at what age was she spayed? others have explained the KC system better than I could.

having a dog PTS at 12 is common but your list of other health problems could be down to a mix of genes and/or neutering at a young age which affects growth and immune system among other things. I had a setter with similar multitudinal issues and tbh, it put me off the breed let alone going back to the same breeder even though I attributed some of it to early neutering.
 

FinnishLapphund

There's no cow on the ice
Joined
28 June 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
w(b)est coast of Sweden
Visit site
Even the best of breeders can be unlucky, and if you're unlucky, even 2 unrelated dogs can carry the same faulty genes. But perhaps you could try and find out if the breeder of your bitch, at least seems to have tried to lower the inbreeding score on the litters which they produces.

I presume that the breeder should already be able to tell you the name of the broodbitch which they intend to breed, so then you can have a look at her pedigree, and see if she seems to have a lower inbreeding score. Perhaps you could try and look up some other litters this breeder have had, and see if the broodbitches they've had/have, and the litters they've produced, have a lower inbreeding score now, than when you bought your bitch from them.

I don't know about UK, but some Swedish breed clubs have pages on the internet where breeders can write up already planned matings. If the breed club of your breed happens to have such a page, perhaps you could have a look, and see if you can find other potential litters which might be interesting.
 

paddy555

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 December 2010
Messages
12,539
Visit site
the pup I got was a GSD and before he came I got his pedigree checked out by Chris Hazell who does that for Shepherds. Is there anyone similar who does that for your breed OP who could check it in detail before you get another? Not sure what breed yours is?
 

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
It’s interesting that there are a lot of GSD responses to the thread - I assumed the OP was talking about a cavalier 😄 except for cruciate injuries which definitely aren’t commonplace in the breed
 

CorvusCorax

Justified & Ancient
Joined
15 January 2008
Messages
57,236
Location
Mu Mu Land
Visit site
I don't recognise some of the conditions as being a problem in GSDs but I think it's more to do with the fact that it's a numerically large breed (more to go wrong) and breed record keeping is very good, so we geeks tend to stick our heads above the parapet more lol.
 
Top