Can Natural Horsemanship help my nervous napper?

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GelderlanderGirl

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Hi everyone,

I am the proud owner of a beautiful 17.2 Gelderlander. I have only owned him for one month but have loaned him for almost 2 years now, and so far everything has been going perfectly, including the move to his new yard. I have always had problems hacking him out alone. He naps frequently and often I just can't get him through them. He doesn't rear or run away, just either spins to face the other way or backs up at high speed. He is usually fine to hack with other horses, however for the first time this week I forced him out alone at his new home and on the first hack had to give in to his napping as it was in a dangerous place, but the second time managed to ride him through 7 or 8 naps in a row and got round the hack succesfully. However I went for a hack with my friend and her horse last night and he refused to go on either of the routes where he had gone on his own last time, and would not listen to any of my aids. I don't like to smack him as it doesn't work and only makes him more upset. I know he doesn't like to be by himself in the field, let alone riding out, and so was wondering whether any of you had any ideas about whether natural horsemanship could help us out? Any help would be much appreciated, as I really want to help him overcome this and he is such a gentle giant in every other way. Many thanks xx
 
Not a fan of natural horsemanship, can you not get the advice of a good instructor, is he good in the school? can you load him, whats he like away form the yard? It sounds like he is playing you, which will require firm handling and patience to sort out. Isnt natural horsemanship what we use to call horse sense?
 
Thank you both for your replies. I have been trying to sit it out for almost 2 years now, so was just wondering whether to try something new! He is very good in the school and goes in there alone, and also loads well. Before I started taking him out alone at his new yard he was fine away from the yard with other horses. He will not however go in the field alone and if you do put him in there he gallops round and neighs. I'm just looking for a way to improve his confidence when he is by himself and to get him to go out happily!
 
The right sort of NH would def help - but as always there are good instructors and bad ones.

One chap I had a lesson off recently said 'if the groundwork isnt right, should you really be getting on board' which really struck a chord with me. The work we went on to do had my mare so zonked and chilled she was a diff horse when ridden - and I certainly wouldnt class our groundwork as bad in the first place, nor would others!

Where abouts are you roughly?
 
Yes you're right, it does make sense that the groundwork should be good in order for them to be good under saddle. He is very good to handle on the ground, but I know there is always room for improvement, and at the moment I don't think he would follow me if I tried to get off and lead him through a nap and I probably couldn't get back on! I am in the Manchester/ South Cheshire area.
 
Right so your groundwork def needs an experienced set of eyes to look at it :)

A little thing to practise, when leading, make sure the horses hoof moves before your feet, so its you telling him, rather than him agreeing to follow ;) He should always take the first step. You should be able to move his forehand and hindquarters easily and quietly without him protesting. You should be able to touch him all over and him not be bothered at all.

http://www.holistichorsehelp.com/page15/page15.html Sue Palmer would be a good help im sure :)
 
Have you had any lessons at all on this horse when you have had these problems over the last two years? Or someone experienced's opinions? What was he like with his previous owner? It doesn't sound as though you need natural horsemanship, just good horsemanship. His confidence needs to come from you, and you do need to be firmer by the sounds of it.
 
Thanks very much Tiger Tail, I will practice moving him about tomorrow in the school. That is also a good idea about Sue Palmer, I have seen her in some horsey magazines so may see if she can help us. Thank you very much for taking the time to give your advice.
 
Hi Honey08. I haven't really had much help with him, as before I actually bought him he was on working livery at a riding school and so I didn't get the opportunity to work with him as I wanted to. And the instructors there were pretty much of the opinion that he would never go out alone no matter what I did. His last owner did not have much to do with him, but told me that he would go on when napping if you gave him a smack which I have since found is not the case. I think we would definitely benefit from some lessons, and I try my best to be firm when he naps, but he becomes so uncontrollable that we often end up in dangerous situations, such as in the middle of the road, and he just refuses to listen to my aids. He makes things very awkward for me!
 
NH is just a new name, thats all.

Gelderlandergirl, thats your problem in a nutshell - he is ex riding school.. My first pony was one, and napped no end for the first year that I had him. It just took a lot of time and lessons with someone experienced to get me experienced enough to be able to work through it. He became a wonderful pony and I reckon I learned half of what I know from that pony!

Good starter points (as its really early days if he has only been away from RS for a month)...

Hack out in company for a few months until he feels settled in his new home.
If there is nobody to hack with, go in the school.
Find someone for lessons to help you through it, someone with a bit more conviction than the RS instructors - you will get through this.
After a while, when hacking out with friends, start to ask him to go first. Do this in a safe place where, if he decides to nap or reverse, you can sit it out. Once he is happily going as lead file when hacking, extend his lead to a hundred metres or so, or turn off and do a loop on your own.
When you do get to hacking alone, never ever turn round - always plan rides that are a loop.
 
Thanks Honey08. I know him being in the school wasn't probably helpful to him, even if he was only there for 3 years. His owner did say that he had the napping problem as long as she had him before she put him in the school, which was about 6 years, so it is obviously a deep-rooted thing that no-one has ever really tackled. I think you are right about starting by getting him hacking out in company again, as it does seem to be a confidence issue with him. Very silly when he is such a big boy!
 
Honey08 said:
Gelderlandergirl, thats your problem in a nutshell - he is ex riding school.. My first pony was one, and napped no end for the first year that I had him. It just took a lot of time and lessons with someone experienced to get me experienced enough to be able to work through it. He became a wonderful pony and I reckon I learned half of what I know from that pony!
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That's the second problem. The FIRST problem is that he is a Gelderlander! Talk to anyone who has had a lot to do with a number of them and they will tell you - this breed was born to nap (and be bargey, and ill-mannered!) Give them an inch and they'll take the proverbial mile.

Gelderlandergirl, you need some very capable and experienced help with this horse - or he WILL get worse!
 
Hi Janet. Thanks for your input. I have heard people say this about Gelderlanders, and I know that my boy is a very big horse to deal with when things go wrong like this. He is however not bargey or ill-mannered in any other way, although I know that this napping problem is bad enough. Hopefully with advice from people like you on the forum I will be able to find a way through this with him and be able to fix this problem before it gets worse.
 
GelderlanderGirl said:
Hopefully with advice from people like you on the forum I will be able to find a way through this with him and be able to fix this problem before it gets worse.
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:D You probably wouldn't like the advice I'd give you on this horse. It would probably involve running reins and a big stick! I have only had dealings with one pure-bred Gelderlander - I assessed him for Trading Standards in a mis-selling case and he was a BRUTE! (Sold to a nervous rider who he put in hospital.)

But I did discuss the breed with a TOP driving trainer who has had dealings with a number of them. (His description would attract the ******** police!) AND I had a youngster in for backing who had Gelderlander in his pedigree. HE was the most stubborn, argumentative and potentially dangerous youngster we've ever backed - our normal patient and kind approach was a total failure with him and we had to pull all sorts of 'tools' out of the tool-box to make him a (reasonably) safe ride for a capable, confident rider only!

The problem with giving advice on this sort of horse is that it will only work if you are a very confident, capable and BRAVE rider who can sit out bucks, rears etc. - otherwise it would get you killed! And - I'll put money on him NOT being 'nervous'!

There are a couple of 'problem horse' trainers who can probably help you get him 'sorted' - depending on where in the country you are! But it will need someone with a tough, no-nonsense approach - or you'll waste your money and your horse will get worse! (I am NOT volunteering - life is too short!)
 
I am surprised that he was in a RS, not the sort they would go for unless he was "given" to them, they are big horses and do well in competition, usually trained by men, they are also used in driving, and I know a few can be nervy [and or sharp] when young, but usually quite bold when they are more experienced.
I think all this NH stuff is fine for certain horses, but it has been adopted by the "fluffy bunnies" as an excuse for not giving them a tap when they are naughty.
Most successful NH trainers are also good horsemen, and I think they just do the right thing because they have so much experience.
That p person system to me is bullying, not natural at all.
If he won't walk with you when you get off he is taking the proverbial.
 
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My big 17.2hh full ID is very similar to your boy. He will not stay in a field on his own (doesnt jump out he fence walks and gets himself in a state!) so a pony needs to be with him in the field - bit of seperation anxiety.

I bought him as a 4 year old (2 years ago) and he had never hacked out alone - not much hacking done as it is tbh...my first few attempts on my own was awful, napping, spinning and being a nutter. I spent a whole year hacking out with a friend, getting out as much as possible with another horse, after a year started to do small hacks away from yard. Not too far, even meant turning round unfortunately. My hacks went from 8 naps per ride down to none...and we can now ride out safely and calmly without any hassles but it has taken time and patience.

I tried many ideas, walking him backwards (that just winded him up), smacking him (that did the same) and sitting it out...this was the only one that worked for my boy. If he stopped I would just wait, would not let him back up or go sidewards just made him wait...a one point could be up to 10 mins, when his head came down I asked calmly for him to walk on. Now he never naps (or hasnt for a long time), there are times when he feels like he might so I trot on in a good working trot to keep his brain occupied and not think backwards.

Good luck its not easy but if you have a lovely steady eddy in every other sense of the word, like myself, then they are worth the patience and time needed xxx

Another point is my boy does not like change, period, any sort of change too, from out 24/7 to stabled in the winter upsets him and takes him ages to settle into a new routine. Your boy might be the same!!!!
 
Absolutely it can help - not a quick fix, but if he has had this issue for 2 years, then you would probably be happy in 3-6 months if he has made a significant improvement, or the problem solved. I cannot reccomend NH highly enough, as I have had help from some really amazing instructors from time to time, and they are really genuine people who are able to consider why the horse is doing what he is doing, and help YOU to put some strategies in place, to change the patterns that are happening, This is where I find the benefit, they teach you how to address the issue, so that the problem does not come back once they are not there to hold your hand.
 
GelderlanderGirl said:
Yes you're right, it does make sense that the groundwork should be good in order for them to be good under saddle. He is very good to handle on the ground, but I know there is always room for improvement, and at the moment I don't think he would follow me if I tried to get off and lead him through a nap and I probably couldn't get back on! I am in the Manchester/ South Cheshire area.
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I know a woman that should be able to help, will you PM you her website

:)
 
TigerTail said:
Right so your groundwork def needs an experienced set of eyes to look at it :)

A little thing to practise, when leading, make sure the horses hoof moves before your feet, so its you telling him, rather than him agreeing to follow ;) He should always take the first step. You should be able to move his forehand and hindquarters easily and quietly without him protesting. You should be able to touch him all over and him not be bothered at all.

http://www.holistichorsehelp.com/page15/page15.html Sue Palmer would be a good help im sure :)
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yes liking this!!!
 
GelderlanderGirl said:
Hi Janet. Thanks for your input. I have heard people say this about Gelderlanders, and I know that my boy is a very big horse to deal with when things go wrong like this. He is however not bargey or ill-mannered in any other way, although I know that this napping problem is bad enough. Hopefully with advice from people like you on the forum I will be able to find a way through this with him and be able to fix this problem before it gets worse.
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OMG I have a gelderlander and she is perfect long backed yes but a fabulous horse. I have a 17hh horse that is the same I am going back to do the ground work again and gain respenct though NH i am loving the idea and cant wait to try some stuff tonight
hack out with people for a while but dont get into a dangerous position and stay safe and enjoy him!! PS PICTURE REQUIRED!!!!
 
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