Can someone teach me about breeding please

[Spirit7]

As title - everyone raves about this and that but what does it all mean?

I have 2 horses who’s breeding I can see and they both have the same names on sire and dams line, I understand this is good in horses but it’s clearly not good in people ?

Please can someone actually explain it to me and a bit more detail as I’ve been taught a little on another thread and I went on google and now I really want to know more …..

Thanks a lot!

 

[scats]

It’s called line breeding (when done purposefully) and it’s not uncommon, particularly with Welsh horses.
How far back are the crossover lines?

 

[Equi]

Line breeding is fairly common in many breeds esp if there is not a huge pool of animals/enough stallions to serve the population. It can be okay most of the time but it should never be over done.

 

[Spirit7]

It’s called line breeding (when done purposefully) and it’s not uncommon, particularly with Welsh horses.
How far back are the crossover lines?

Thank you! Start at great grand parents in one and obviously continues and then at great great great parents in my other one? the first is AES so a newer stud book then the other I suppose which is Selle Francais.
are there any benefits or is it basically inbreeding like it is in people which is bad and creates disorders (I am told I am not of this linage!)

 

[Spirit7]

Line breeding is fairly common in many breeds esp if there is not a huge pool of animals/enough stallions to serve the population. It can be okay most of the time but it should never be over done.

Thinking great grandparent is overdone?

 

[Barklands]

Thank you! Start at great grand parents in one and obviously continues and then at great great great parents in my other one? the first is AES so a newer stud book then the other I suppose which is Selle Francais.
are there any benefits or is it basically inbreeding like it is in people which is bad and creates disorders (I am told I am not of this linage!)

It's very common in British Riding Pony breeding however, I am really against line breeding. It's no good in people or other species like dogs so why should it be any different with horsses. We had a riding pony who had the same grandsire on each side - he was beautiful looking but had the most bizarre temperament I've ever known.

 

[TheMule]

Thank you! Start at great grand parents in one and obviously continues and then at great great great parents in my other one? the first is AES so a newer stud book then the other I suppose which is Selle Francais.
are there any benefits or is it basically inbreeding like it is in people which is bad and creates disorders (I am told I am not of this linage!)

Line breeding doesn’t create disorders but it can magnify them. For example, Horse A has defect X and is related to Horse B who also has defect X. Normally you'd breed outside the line so the chance of passing on defect X lessens, but when you breed them together they have a higher chance of passing defect X onto their offspring.

Done well it can be absolutely fine and you concentrate the strengths. Some are too close for my comfort. This is one of the world's most successful SJers currently. He is a phenomenal horse- the canter, power and scope are unbelievable. But he's bred a bit too close for me!
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1677488/united-touch-s

 

[Spirit7]

Line breeding doesn’t create disorders but it can magnify them. For example, Horse A has defect X and is related to Horse B who also has defect X. Normally you'd breed outside the line so the chance of passing on defect X lessens, but when you breed them together they have a higher chance of passing defect X onto their offspring.

Done well it can be absolutely fine and you concentrate the strengths. Some are too close for my comfort. This is one of the world's most successful SJers currently. He is a phenomenal horse- the canter, power and scope are unbelievable. But he's bred a bit too close for me!
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1677488/united-touch-s

I don’t think I understand what you mean by too close? I looked at the example in your link and while I could see similar names I could many see the exact same names repeated on the dam and sire which is what I thought you meant? Or maybe im not suing the website correctly? I’m sorry I’m being a bit slow

It makes sense about the disorders etc though thank you!

 

[ihatework]

Line breeding doesn’t create disorders but it can magnify them. For example, Horse A has defect X and is related to Horse B who also has defect X. Normally you'd breed outside the line so the chance of passing on defect X lessens, but when you breed them together they have a higher chance of passing defect X onto their offspring.

Done well it can be absolutely fine and you concentrate the strengths. Some are too close for my comfort. This is one of the world's most successful SJers currently. He is a phenomenal horse- the canter, power and scope are unbelievable. But he's bred a bit too close for me!
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1677488/united-touch-s

You don’t see the double up on the dam line that often!!

 

[TheMule]

The sire and dam are both out of the same mare



Or this one, who is doubled up on one of the best dam lines there is in the sport

 

[Lois Lame]

As title - everyone raves about this and that but what does it all mean?

I have 2 horses who’s breeding I can see and they both have the same names on sire and dams line, I understand this is good in horses but it’s clearly not good in people ?

Please can someone actually explain it to me and a bit more detail as I’ve been taught a little on another thread and I went on google and now I really want to know more …..

Thanks a lot!

A friend's brother said to me once, "It's called line breeding when it goes well, in breeding when it doesn't."

 

[SpeedyPony]

I have a welshie that has the same sire crop up multiple times on both sides of her pedigree- the family tree is more of a web
It has worked out (touch wood) in her case, but if I ever breed from her, it will be to a distantly related welshie/crossed out to a different breed, as such a lack of genetic diversity is going to cause issues sooner or later.
I think the main issue is that people have an idea in their heads that X sire is very good (quite probably true), but they are reluctant to take a punt on his progeny and so he gets overused, with sire daughter/full sibling crosses creeping in.
It is always difficult where a sire at stud has no proven progeny, perhaps the line some cattle and sheep breeders are taking with gEBVs will also take on in horses? Although I suspect less money/consideration given to the breeding and more weight placed on the animal in front of you is the answer (that will be the day!).

 

[Spirit7]

The sire and dam are both out of the same mare

View attachment 154009

Or this one, who is doubled up on one of the best dam lines there is in the sport

View attachment 154013

Thank you! Completely understand now! Yes that’s weird lol. Too close makes perfect sense.

 

[tristars]

I don't line breed

I use horses unrelated with the best possible bloodlines

I think it gives good results

 

[tda]

In days gone by, people were very keen, once they'd bred what they considered the perfect horse, to then cross it with its close relative/sire/dam/sister/brother to try and get an even better example
In the native world there has been extensive data collection on pedigrees, going back years, and now for example in our breed the Sparks program (initially was for Cleveland Bays but now expanding for other breeds ) can compare and advise what animal is a better genetic match to your mare. A lot of people have embraced this, but there are plenty who won't and will continue to breed ponies that are too close genetically
The breed, dales ponies only had a small genetic pool from the start but it has within the last 30 yrs got worse