Can you ever cure nervous aggressive?

Fools Motto

Fools Motto

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I think the dog is 6 years old. (The dog is not mine, belongs to family though).
Just curious to know if there is any hope?!
 
As above!

It does depend on a few factors as to how well it can be managed - including breed/age of dog/experience of owners; amongst others.

In some dogs you can get to a point where the dog does appear to be "cured" but the potential for it to resurface will always be there...and a change of circumstances/owner etc can re-trigger the old behaviours.
 
It's always going to be lurking... you've got to know and be able to manage all the triggers to never get a repeat. Very hard to do because trigger stacking happens and you just never know unless you can really carefully control the dog's whole world. You can work on individual triggers with counter conditioning to lesson their effects... it's possible but hard work. Plus you have to balance it against how much aggression they are showing, if they bite hard when the do go over threshold then management has to be perfect... is that possible? If they growl or air snap but nothing else then a management slip is less problematic, just puts the training back a bit.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
Agree with the others, I had a nervous aggressive dog-he was well managed but it was always there even after 11 years if the triggers/stress were about. Not something I would want to take on again.
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I agree MOC , you can never really relax and walking a fear aggressive dog is a nightmare if they are big. My last Weim started off as a beautiful youngster, loved everything until he got attacked twice then he went a bit defensive but you could calm him then he got badly attacked by a Collie and that was that, he started lunging then attacking strange dogs and despite all my efforts he never got any better although he remained gentle with dogs he knew.
One of the reasons i bought this isolated house was for him so he was safe and could run where he wanted as taking him out meant muzzling and worrying all the time that he would cause somebody else's beautiful dog to go the same way because of him.
 
Mine was fine with other dogs, fear aggressive with people-particularly people going for, or looking like they might be going for his collar (but not exclusively). hated kids and most other people and I was the only one who could administer injections/treatment/first aid. I think he had maybe 4 people in the time I had him (my ex, lodger, my now husband and a friend-I was ready to PTS after each one but they wouldnt hear of it) all of whom forgot that you had to cue him first before slipping on a lead etc. he had alot of issues tbf his saving grace was good with other dogs and never destructive.
 
I don’t think there’s anything you can do but manage the behaviour.

I had a nervous aggressive dog for 3 years that had thousands of pounds and unknown hours thrown at it. I even took it to a top veterinary behaviourist for medication but sadly the dog always reverted back to aggression whenever frightened.

Walking was hell, no visitors could come to the house and I couldnt live life in a bubble with only a dog for company and so I PTS and still feel guilty to this day.

So i think you can manage the behaviour, learn to avoid the triggers but I think eventually one day it will always revert back to the behaviour.
 
I have a rescue dog who was worried nervous protection around other dogs. Do you before you do me sort of thing. Went to training classes and put her in some difficult but safe situations and she is loads better. Took her mind off her fears by doing other things but keeping her in her not so comfortable situation.
 
Some important points I constantly drone on about as regards dogs:

1. What the dog learns first, it will always revert to in times of stress (eg if I bark and snarl, the thing that I don't like will disappear)

2. Paraphrasing a very well known trainer: When the dog is stressed he looks back to his ancestors for help. And very often there is no one there (because people often don't think about these things when they breed dogs).

3. A dog will only ever do what he believes is in his best interest and what will improve his own position.
 
You can't cure the dog of being nervous but you can help most dogs to choose a more acceptable behaviour than aggression.
Most nervous aggression improves when the dog is shown/taught/ that (or allowing them to) removing themselves from a situation/place that makes them feel nervous and therefore more prone to exhibiting an unwanted behaviour is a good choice.
Dogs as a general ereal rule do not want to feel nervous and don't want confrontation they resort to it when there is no other option.
Dogs can also mostly be taught to cope with more and more situations and that in turn can increase confidence.
Often dogs are not nervous of the actual trigger but the response of their trusted/in control human. I can't tell you how many dogs I have dealt with that become less aggressive when their owners stop shouting and shoving them to the floor when they meet other dogs or have a grumble, a grumble is actually polite communication between dogs but when we interfere and raise anxiety levels we case aggressive interactions in our dogs.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
Mine was fine with other dogs, fear aggressive with people-particularly people going for, or looking like they might be going for his collar (but not exclusively). hated kids and most other people and I was the only one who could administer injections/treatment/first aid. I think he had maybe 4 people in the time I had him (my ex, lodger, my now husband and a friend-I was ready to PTS after each one but they wouldnt hear of it) all of whom forgot that you had to cue him first before slipping on a lead etc. he had alot of issues tbf his saving grace was good with other dogs and never destructive.
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Ah, that's awful :(, mine was good with people thank god but i had a friend who rescued a Doberman who had a fear of brooms and hand brushes of all things,would go mental and go into attack mode , she assumed nobody knew about it when he was rescued and nor did she until she swept a floor near him and he started growling and stalking towards her. Biggest Dobe iv'e ever seen too but I never met a lovelier dog than him either, he was gentle with everyone, never caused a problem but he'd clearly had something awful happen. Her sister looked after him once and forgot the no brush rule and he did the same thing to her. In the big scheme of things that problem was manageable but it did put her off rescuing again for many years
 
twiggy2 said:
You can't cure the dog of being nervous but you can help most dogs to choose a more acceptable behaviour than aggression.
Most nervous aggression improves when the dog is shown/taught/ that (or allowing them to) removing themselves from a situation/place that makes them feel nervous and therefore more prone to exhibiting an unwanted behaviour is a good choice.
Dogs as a general ereal rule do not want to feel nervous and don't want confrontation they resort to it when there is no other option.
Dogs can also mostly be taught to cope with more and more situations and that in turn can increase confidence.
Often dogs are not nervous of the actual trigger but the response of their trusted/in control human. I can't tell you how many dogs I have dealt with that become less aggressive when their owners stop shouting and shoving them to the floor when they meet other dogs or have a grumble, a grumble is actually polite communication between dogs but when we interfere and raise anxiety levels we case aggressive interactions in our dogs.
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I agree with all this Twiggy and i wish i'd had more help with mine or had lived in a different place when the problem started as he would be fine in a calm controlled introduction but in rural France almost nobody keeps their dogs in, especially in the villages ,they just open their doors and out they go regardless of temperament so i'd be doing well and then i'd suddenly have 2 or 3 unfriendly dogs in his face and i freely admit that although i tried to stay calm and in control i failed many times and got bitten by other dogs trying to protect him. I spent over a year with a trainer which didn't help then chose to move here. The one thing that was strange was that he was always ok with the chasse dogs and i have no idea why, maybe their energy was different?
 
You will never cure it, but you can manage it very effectively - I see this with my own rescue lurcher, who displayed nervous aggression all the time when I first got her a year and a half ago. She bit my ex, which didn't really surprise me as he wasn't dog savvy at all, but when she bit me it was a really blow to my pride!

Nowadays she is completely different - happy, friendly, outgoing, settled - and I know never to put her in a situation where her inherent behaviour might come to the fore. That is MY responsibility as a human, she is a dog and will react accordingly :) She is a joy to live with now, and I would never suggest to anyone that she is aggressive in any way - she only might revert to that if I fail.
 
Thank you for all your replies.
This is the in-law springer spaniel - I've posted about her before on several occasions over the years.
She is currently staying with us again due to their house move. I've learnt more about her recently. I've always said she isn't wired right! I've known for a while she isn't to be trusted with other dogs. I can't read her though. She will go in guns blazing once or twice a week - random dogs who are usually minding their own business. She has been known to run away from a few. She has never gone for my late whippet x, or my mums collie x, but chased my late fathers labrador out over his own garden wall and meant it. My spaniel will always want to snap at her on first meeting - it sounds worse than it is. I'm almost convinced mine is trying to get her to calm down. Then then settle with no problems. With us, I insist she is on a long line. She met three dogs today, they wanted to sniff her, she just ignored them totally, and their owner didn't mind when I said she wasn't to be trusted - another problem for another day!!
Anyway, I now know she doesn't like black bin bag liners, household brooms, the 'ping' on the microwave, or the 'pop' of the toaster. I've always known she hates the hoover, but doesn't mind the hair drier.
She will wet herself when you enter the room and look at her, she wets herself when she is excited, and when any of the above noises happen. I'm finding myself tiptoeing around!! (with a mop in theory, but that is scary and creates more piddles!)
Before she came to us, she stayed 2 nights with another family member who's own bitch has had puppies, currently 8 weeks old and waiting to go to their new homes. This spaniel - scared of the puppies. Messed in the house, in the bedrooms, on the stairs, under the dining table. They couldn't get near her to get her outside, and weren't quick enough to close various doors. They gave up and i've got her.
I've also noticed, she can't catch! I'm not saying that every dog can - or even wants to, but I tried with ham. All dogs like ham - be there with you, puppy-dog eyes, can't get it fast enough. She shys away from it. I can aim it to land on her nose, and she shoots back. I feel for her. (Eye sight?) Out of your hand, she'll almost take your fingers, so I know she wants it. Tennis balls... they can bounce off her head, she'll make no attempt to catch, or move away, yet wants the ball like a ''normal spaniel'?! Oh, and she can't swim... I mean, really can't swim.
Her owners are smokers, and she pants like a steam train at the thought of a walk. She isn't over weight, but has been in the past. Her ears are often manky, always prescribed ear drops.
Like I said, I'm sure she isn't wired right. (Shes currenly scratching her ears, so ear issue is looming). She has little dumpy legs, she can be no taller than a westie I reckon. One of lifes odd ones!!
 
Poor dog indeed.
The worst thing for a nervous dog is lack of consistency and boundaries.
Putting her in a house with 8week old puppies is very unfair- very few dogs cope well with that as they are overwhelming amd generally fairly unruly.
I don't think not catching ham says anything other than maybe th dog is not good at catching.
I would get her vet checked and ask if you could try using propalin or similar to see if it helps with the peeing.
 
I don't think she ever has been. quote didn't work from CC.
Even the story of the in-laws getting her as a pup isn't right. They saw the advert, mother and pups... went to view and collect and the breeder came out front carrying her. The in-laws were so taken with cuteness, they never saw the dam, or any other litter mates. Turned out, she wasn't from that litter advertised. Her markings never matched any of the puppies.
Still, they love her despite it being hard work and not enjoyable.
 
That's really sad. Definitely sounds like a lot of potential triggers to deal with... and yes, sounds like there's something amiss in the wiring.
 
Dogs or people CC?
Arrhh, this editing thing....
I know her owners love her. I also admit I care for her, but she is hard work and for that I do not like her. I don't think many dogs like her, just some tolerate her when they've been together a while. Many dogs stop and stare, in a stiff stance at her.
 
This sounds like a dog who doesn't have the mental strength to cope with everyday life. Through ill considered breeding or just something wrong with her wiring, who knows.
It doesn't sound like she knows how to deal with normal interactions, household noises.
And every day she has to face her worst nightmares and her reactions are considered humorous, annoying or 'hard work'.
Every day she gets thrown out of a plane with no parachute.
 
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Having read the replies properly on the thread now it is clear that I have a different perspective to a lot of people about dog behaviour, particularly from rescue dogs.

You don’t like the behaviour - you remove the trigger. That’s YOUR job that you signed up to when you took the dog on. Sorry to quote a particular phrase you used FM but this isn’t “hard work” - it’s responsible dog ownership, and that includes responsibility to give your dog as good a life as you can manage.

ETA - I wrote this then deleted it because i felt it would come across too harshly. I have re-posted because I feel strongly about this
 
It's not my dog, she isn't a rescue.
We're just looking after her, giving her the best option stability wise while her owners are moving house. The whole puppy situation previously has really knocked her for six. I did tell them it wasn't a good idea - they just thought she would attack the pups, so prepared to muzzle her. Instead all hell let loose, and everyone ended up screaming at each other due to the mess she made. I had a phone call in the early hours saying they were on the way to drop her at mine - some 6 hour journey. Yes, I feel so much for the dog, she must be feeling very lost and confused.
She IS hard work, it IS no walk in the park. I DO think of her needs and do my best to accommodate them. What I misunderstood more than I thought, was she has a lot of worries. If I didn't know her, I would swear blind she was a rescue and has been mistreated.
 
You can desensitise and build in positive perceptions up to a point - I had one and a neighbour who called frequently used to give him a treat whenever he came in, and was soon accepted. But as others have said, it's a confidence issue and there will always be triggers you only come across now and again. The main thing is not to "reassure" them which they will perceive as reinforcing the behaviour.
 
Sounds very much like nervous aggression isnt actually her main issue at all, but the fact that she cannot cope with the world in general nor with everyday life.

Im not one to jump to the "puppy farm product" conclusion but at the very least she has been very poorly bred - likely from substandard genetic stock, coupled with poor early care and socialisation.

You only have to look at the photo to tell there is something not right with her, and then pairing that with the description makes for very sad reading.

I wish people would do the right thing for these sort of dogs and put them out of their misery tbh
 
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