Canada to launch Complaint to World Trade Organisation on Hunt Ban

D

DavidDent

Member
Joined
7 July 2009
Messages
27
Location
Wales
www.dentfineart.com
The Seal Hunt that is.

Please show solidarity with the Canadians who include many native peoples who derive their living through seal fur by registering here and posting a comment of solidarity.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-la...comments-submit

Also please write to your euro mp if you get the chance.

The Hunt is totally sustainable and seal hunting has existed in these areas for at least 10 000 years according to Inuit scholars.
Contrast that with the 350 monk seal left in the mediterranean through sheer pollution from tourism. The North sea too from our oil and gas extraction. Hypocrisy of the highest order. Canada's record on Conservation is tremendous in comparison to that of the EEC and they need to be supported.

This is purely another scrap they are throwing the animal rights industry and the ignorant hypocrisy of the masses swayed by red blood on white snow propaganda to detract from doing anything that really supports Conservation.

At least a third of the skins from the Newfoundland Hunts are processed by Greenland and native and cottage industries. It brings them their only revenue and their lifestyle needs to be supported to discoutrage alternative economic activity which will destroy habitat for wildlife permanently.

I shall be using seal fur from the Inuit in my fashion collection next year in protest at this irrational speciest and racist decision from the EEC.

babyveal.0.jpg


By the way, in case you were one of those fooled by animal rights propaganda, the whitecoat is NOT used by the fur industry; and they are only killed by native peoples if their mother has been killed. What we are talking about is just regular seal pelts.
 
Why on earth would I want to sign that. The sight of those seal pups being clubbed is sickening
frown.gif


And as for your seal fur fashion, yuk yuk yuk.
 
Is it the same cull as the one done to supposedly keep the population in balance?

I'm not fully read up on this so I could be confusing two different things.
 
Can you even read?
What is the difference between a seal and a cow?
Please; rationally?

Leather is the SAME as fur and what would you suggest they eat in the artcic? There is no grass for cows to graze.

Keehl your ignorance is astounding since all your tack is made from animal skin.


LHS...do you mean THIS kind of film?

QUOTE furcommision Canada
1964: Film of a seal being skinned alive is used by the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) to vilify Canadian sealers, and is screened on CBC television. Following a public outcry and investigation, the man in the film, Gus Poirier of Prince Edward Island, signs an affidavit declaring that he was "employed by a group of photographers ... to skin a large seal for the film. I solemnly swear before witnesses that I was asked to torment the said seal and not to use a [club], but just to use a knife to carry out this operation, where in normal practice a [club] is used to first kill the seals before skinning them." A Federal Standing Committee castigated CBC "for not enquiring into its accuracy before screening," but the damage had been done.

IFAW founder Brian Davies later stated under oath that he had never actually seen a seal being skinned alive, yet its propaganda continued to claim that this happens.

Campaign tactics of this kind were largely responsible for the introduction in 1972 of the US Marine Mammal Protection Act, which stands to this day. Among the impacts of this draconian and scientifically unjustifiable law was the end to imports of marine mammal products from Canada to the US, and the subsequent devastation of local economies across maritime Canada.


As for the harapik being inhumane. It kills instantly unlike UK slaughterhouse methods.
QUOTE http://www.alberni.ca/forums/archive/index.php/t-1966.html
A 2002 report in the Canadian Veterinary Journal found that "the large majority of seals taken during this hunt ? are killed in an acceptably humane manner." This study found that 98 per cent of hunted seals it examined had been killed properly. The federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) cites this study among others as proof that the hunt opponents are wrong in their accusations of widespread cruelty. And regarding the "skinning alive" charge, the DFO says appearances can be deceiving. "Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed," the DFO says. "However, seals have a swimming reflex that is active, even after death. This reflex falsely appears as though the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead – similar to the reflex in chickens."

So you are TOTALLY wrong both of you. The same rubbish spouted against hunting - and even horse riding; remember the antis that produce this propaganda want all domestic animals exterminated - is used against seal hunting.

You have a chance to learn something here; take it.

I am not interested in discussing this with those who cannot be bothered to address points raised. What we are talking about is a three per cent annual cull , the same principles of sustainability adopted by most native hunting cultures, from a Canadian harp seal population of six million.
 
Tinkerbee yes.
The Newfoundland cull takes a few days so they take the three per cent all at once. But it is entirely within the Conservation guidelines of sustainability; and the Harapik is a very swift if messy blood wise means of death.
I wonder how it would look if abbatoirs had snow covered floors and no walls.

The harp seal is the fox of the ocean. With six million in Canada alone without that cull they would be twenty million in a few years; putting a massive strain on the eco system. Man bear and killer whale are the seals natural control in the eco system. SO they are going to have to be culled anyway whether we use the fur or not. Idiots like Paul McCartney - detested by the Inuit incidentally - have brought this about through sheer ignorance.
 
I for one will be signing because I think it is very important that we retain as many/much of the old customs as we can otherwise a great deal of history and culture will be lost. We need to help them fight their corner otherwise it will be a great loss to the human race and endanger their whole means of surviving.
I think it is the 'bloodiness' which puts a lot of people off, even if they aren't animal rightists but a cull certainly needs to be made if the seals are to remain healthy and in a sustainable ocean.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth would I want to sign that. The sight of those seal pups being clubbed is sickening
frown.gif


And as for your seal fur fashion, yuk yuk yuk.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about your milk? Whose milk do you think you are drinking and what do you think happens to bullocks?

As I said, seal fur is no different to leather. We'd be pretty buggered without leather in the equestrian world.

And by supporting it, we support aboriginal peoples in the arctic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3682191.stm
What is so yuk about that?

This is designer sara Svonni's website. She is Sami; the reindeer herding tribe you probably know as Laps. They have won awards for their conservation work because while they live on animals they don't damage the habitat unlike us:
http://www.sarasvonni.com/sve/gallery/photo23.asp?p=23
That is sealskin. Note it isn't white like the antis would have you belive.

Think logically and who you damage before you speak. We use cows; they use seal.
 
Thank you MFH_09

This very point of traditional methods and practices is so valued by Conservationists that it is enshrined in the Rio Declaration on the Environment. There is nothing more traditional than a harapik; or the foxhounds, or indeed fur.

The animal rights lobby are using animals as an excuse for the start of a fascistic revolution to disposses animal dependent economies of land and turn the world wilderness into a pairie and oil well landscape. It is hugely important that instead of fighting our little corners we unite to defend our traditions and conserve remaining habitats. Wherever there is a hunting culture, there is wilderness or beautiful country. That should tell people something.

We need to unite. The animal rights lobby is never going to go away unless we do; and their arguments are puerile and easy to dismiss if we stand together. ANYBODY who truly loves animals must realise we are all fighting the same enemy of urban ignorance and prejudice and animal rights lunacy.
If every Hunting and animal dependent economy and every one who owns a horse (yes they want horses eradicated through neutering to stop us 'abusing' them) or a pet or values true Conservation or respects traditional ways of life, unites we can destroy this hideous ideology and thinly veiled land/resources grab for good.

Read here for example how the fur producing hunting and heridng Evenk tried to stop development:
http://www.survival-international.org/news/985

And ironic that the much touted 'alternatives' to fur are made from oil which can devastate habitats.
These are the very people one hurts the worst when criticising fur trade. I know; I do my best to buy from them for my fashion range. When people like this are reduced to alcoholism and suicide because there is no market for their sable and they try to swap pelts for vodka in the towns I want to rip people like Pamela Andersons head off.
 
QR. I have not read all the posts but

I will be signing. As it is a why of life for these peopple & the seals have to be monitored in their numbers & for any part of them to be used is much better than just killing them & wasting everything.
It is respect to the animal to the end. These people will know a heck of alot more about animal respect than us over here.
They will not want them wiped out as then they will be left with no source, so it is of no benefit to them to kill them all.
 
Here are some Inuit pelts. I hope to be able to be using furs like these in my collection.
qq0161-21m.jpg


Here you see the Inuit as many other tribes use the meat; there isn't a sainsburys there. Here Inuit girls eat raw seal liver from a kill:
ba9233-09m.jpg

This is a selaskin Amaut.
qq0247-13m.jpg


Those images are by Bryan and Cherry Alexander who have devoted their life to polar and native photography. Note they also have a section on British Fieldsports:

http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/index.htm

Please browse the site; it is breathtaking.

If you like horses for example try their gallery on the Yakut of Siberia
rv0044-14m.jpg

If you like dogs try this one:
qq0082-37m.jpg


And if you don't believe that ultimately using animals protects them and the beautiful countryside and wilderness, try looking up the Sami
kk0037-10m.jpg


So can you please tell me what is so yuk about fur?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here are some Inuit pelts. I hope to be able to be using furs like these in my collection.

One thing I have always fancied is a fur hat. Have been looking for an artic fox one but...!
 
Here is one I made earlier k9H
wink.gif
produce of arctic Siberia. My model and girlfriend Eliza at Cheltenham. Dyed blue

P1010880.JPG

The coat is restyled natural vintage black mink; originally produce of north american mink farms. And yes, shoulder pads are back big time - think forties/eighties.
 
[ QUOTE ]
QR. I have not read all the posts but

I will be signing. As it is a why of life for these peopple & the seals have to be monitored in their numbers & for any part of them to be used is much better than just killing them & wasting everything.
It is respect to the animal to the end. These people will know a heck of alot more about animal respect than us over here.
They will not want them wiped out as then they will be left with no source, so it is of no benefit to them to kill them all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Spot on and thank you.
Interesting they cull 300 000 a year and use the meat fur and oils (all covered by the ban) from a population of six million harp. We do not kill seal in the EEC and SO the population of monk seal in the Med is down to 350. Just three hundred and fifty. Pollution from tourism. And remember seal flu in British stocks twenty years or so ago from our pollution? And the "dead areas" of the North sea as a result of oil/gas exploitation. And they have six million: that says it all.

The secret to saving animals in the long term has to be enlightened self interest. If we use them, need them, they will always be here. The moment humans don't need animals any more we can kiss good bye to them all.
 
Very enlightening DavidDent. I am quite ignorant of the whole issue I have to admit and would need to read more on both sides of the case before signing any petition but on the whole I am in favour of keeping these traditional customs and ways of living. After all, who are we to dictate how these people should live after they have been successfully existing in this world that is very different to ours for many years.
Thank you for providing so much information.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here is one I made earlier k9H
wink.gif
produce of arctic Siberia. My model and girlfriend Eliza at Cheltenham. Dyed blue

P1010880.JPG

The coat is restyled natural vintage black mink; originally produce of north american mink farms. And yes, shoulder pads are back big time - think forties/eighties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very lovely in fact stunning. I would want au-natural as to respect from the animal it has come from & not to dye as to hide the shame of wearing real fur. (Not saying for one moment this is what you have done). As looks wonderful with the coat & your lovely GF modeling very chic which sadly I am not! Trying to colour co-ordinate is not my strong point!!

What gripes me most is these anti fur people yet they have leather shoes, handbags etc... Where do you think it came from??? It is all animal in the end.

Might have to book you for the job!
 
[ QUOTE ]
its bloody barbaric. we used to have cock fighting and bear baiting too but we became more civilised

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not quite the same though is it.
confused.gif


Will be signing.
smile.gif
 
Very interesting and I give my full support to the Inuit, they use seals as we use cattle, pigs sheep etc., I do not have a problem with that in the slightest. I also do not have a problem with the cull, as long as it is as humane as you say and I have no reason to disbelieve you.

What I do have a problem with is fur as a fashion accessory - sorry.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting and I give my full support to the Inuit, they use seals as we use cattle, pigs sheep etc., I do not have a problem with that in the slightest. I also do not have a problem with the cull, as long as it is as humane as you say and I have no reason to disbelieve you.

What I do have a problem with is fur as a fashion accessory - sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting.
I wonder why the problem with fur as a fashion acessory, yet you sympathise with the Inuit. In the 70s ban on seal instigated by Greenpeace, the income of a small Inuit village in Greenland went down from 55 thousand dollars a year to 1000 dollars a year. Alcoholism and suicide rates went through the roof and the population became dependent on Danish subsidised handouts.

Now Greenland are independent they desperately need us to buy fur produce. The main export company is Great Greenland, an Inuit state owned fur tanner.

The problem, is that while the seal is eaten, once you have a sealskin coat its going to last quite a few years. So what do they do with all the other pelts if the west does not buy them?

Now Eliza and I will be going to Greenland next year to buy fur from the Inuit and do a fashion shoot there. It is easy for the anti fur lobby to represent fashion models as heartless selfish bimbos who do are too thick to know fur is immoral. Eliza however has a masters quaternary science degree; is extensively travelled in the arctic and has spent time with the Sami. She sleeps with her Sami reindeer furs on the bed. She is also doing a Phd in climate disaster risk aversion and sustainable development and has just applied for a job which could put her in danger zones for a medical emergency charity if she gets it. So her heart is good , she is highly educated and knows a great deal about sustainability and arctic cultures. So why does she think fur is not only acceptable as a fashion accessory, but that its absolutely imperative we return to animal based produce for clothing as opposed to unsustainable synthetics and abusive cotton production? You may also have seen conservationist Saba Douglas Hamilton wearing fox and reindeer furs on her filming with the Sami; and also wonder why the architects of Canada's Fur is Green campaign are none other than world famed 'Fly away Home' Conservationists Bill and Paula Lishman.
Sometimes its the assumption that fur is just taken for its luxiry and not the meat, whereas leather is a bi product of meat.
Well lets look at that claim.
Beaver: meat is eaten in Canda and when the traplines are too far for meat to be carried it is fed to Wolves to alleviate pressure on Caribou herds. I used Cree beaver in my collection.
Nutria [coypu] meat is eaten in south america and Poland. I used these furs in my collection
Rabbit: eaten everywhere. I used these furs in my collection from rural Czech republic and ate the very meat.
Seal: definitely eaten
reindeer and caribou: eaten throughout the arctic
Fox mink and sable: eaten by native peoples and on fur farms in Siberia. I used these in my collection,

This leaves us basically with farmed fox mink and sable. Yes I also used SAGA fur in my collection.
These animals are usually put to sleep. CO2 and lethal injection are very humane. That means the meat is poisoned for human consumption. So if you want humane killing, the meat can't be eaten. However the bone meal is used in pet food, the glands used in perfume, and various other parts used eg in glue.
An EEC report recently by the top animal welfare scientists in the world gave high praise to welfare on fur farms. Did you know for example that mink are the only correctly weaned domesticated animal? And that the animals have to have toys and adequate stimulation? That they are groomed because they can never have a louse or flea?

So, given that synthetic clothing and cotton are unsustainable, and animals are infinitely renewable as a resource and their nurturing protects habitat while aternatives to fur destroy it, what exactly do you object to about fur?

As for the person who said it barbaric, obviously they did not read the evidence to show it is not.

Virtually every video alleging abuse on fur farms has been proven time and time again to have been faked: yes, snuff movies paid for by the animal rights industry. Including IFAW using a staged seal cull.

Barbaric also implies that hunting societies are somehow inferior as human beings. less enlightened. It is we in fact who are the danger to the planet with our relentless consumption of non renewable resources. Funny isn't it how the barbaric people have six million of just one species of seal while the Mediteranean Monk seal is down to just 350 individuals. Who are the barbarians again? Funny how they have bear wolf caribou wolverine tiger [siberia] leopard puma lunx walrus sable pine marten raccon dog etc ect ect and all we have left is the damn fox; who we hunt incidentally, and neither for meat or fur.

piccyfix_1227642295_P1015782.JPG

Heer Eliza models a Scottish tweed jacket with a Czech rabbit or Polish nutria fur trim. Appropriately, one of the main uses of sealskin in the UK is sporrans. A real sporran must be sealskin. Another tradition that will be destroyed by the ban. I will use Inuit seal to trim my tweeds next year. The fur she is posed on is her own Sami reindeer.
 
I had this very discussion with my mother last week! I live in Canada (albeit in a city, not a small fishing community) and before I moved here I was in more of the PETA camp about this one. However, having lived here, found out more about it, realised that there are thousands of people whose livelihood depends on a) the seal cull or b) the fish which the seals would drive to extinction I have changed my mind. The cull is closely monitored, a set number of seals are killed each year (in the same way it is assessed in other places culls are necessary for the good of the species themselves or other species).

The seal cull is one of the least wasteful use of animals I know of - the skins are used or sold, the meat is eaten, or preserved for future consumption - the liver, hearts etc - all the parts many folk would turn their noses up at. The oil from them is used in Omega 3 supplements.

The actual kill is probably the best way it could be done - any sort of shot would be more cruel - guns or harpoons on a moving ocean are not accurate, and would cause injury. A strong blow to the head will kill an animal done properly - these people don't go out to hurt animals - they don't do this for fun and they respect the animals in the same way a farmer respects his cattle or sheep. The actual hunt is dangerous, sadly people do die - boats in iceflows are not the safest of things. They don't go out there with bloodlust, they go to provide for their families, their children - it isn't like these people can go and get a job in Walmart - these places are so isolated, this is really the only income for them.

BTW, I am a vegetarian, and don't agree with sport hunting.
 
I don't live there and wouldn't presume to be an expert on the topic. However, I do'nt feel its for people like me who can buy everything they could possibly need from the supermarket or local high street to dictate how more marginal areas should and shouldn't farm. There are many barbaric farming practices in this country; OTOH my attitude to fur farming is that I would rather see it promoted in countries such as the UK. Why? Because it could be used to develop a market in ethically farmed and strongly regulated fur, rather than encouraging the sourcing of fur from unregulated countries and fueling their markets. I have no problem with wearing humanely farmed and killed fur. I was extremely exasperated when the Scottish Government banned fur farming in Scotland, and not only because there was actually no fur farms in Scotland.

I have been to Greenland and heard some Greenlandic songs which were praising and thanking the seals for giving up their lives so that they could provide the Inuit with so many things that they needed.
 
[ QUOTE ]
its bloody barbaric. we used to have cock fighting and bear baiting too but we became more civilised

[/ QUOTE ]

confused.gif
The seals are not being pitched against each other in arenas! I simply cannot find any comparison between a useful cull and barbaric fighting (yes, I agree with you on that)

They are, if you like, being 'farmed' just out in the open rather than like cattle/pigs/sheep behind the closed doors of an abbatoir. I don't see the difference. They are not endangered.

I also wear fur, everyday in the winter.
 
We have become a horrible wasteful society with a holier than thou attitude in the west.

We are all wearing mass produced cloths that don't last and get thrown into landfill very quick. The Primark/ Tesco £1.50 T-Shirt is epitome of this throw away culture.

The fur farming issue has always annoyed me, as aggressive animal rights campaigners drove it out of the UK and away to places like China. The result is a highly regulated and humane system was destroyed and replaced with a country where the animals have no regulation and you do indeed see things like them being skinned alive.

I cannot understand for the life of me why people would want this rather than a high regulated controlled industry? If you remember, the animal rights protesters used to cause havoc releasing mink into the wild and had no thought for the local wildlife killed in the process.

Wearing fur is no different to wearing leather, only the production is radically different, so we ought to be doing our hardest to make it as humane, waste-free and eco-friendly as possible.

Whilst you are at it buy one quality product, rather than 10 bits of cheap tat that you are going to throw away!
 
To be fair, it would be quite tricky to "farm" seals in the traditional sense in any number, as in keeping them in pens or similar.

The problem is these things are complicated. The basis for the complaint seems to be that the fur hunt is being singled out against standard meat farming and even sport hunting, which can't even be justified as an economic necessity. It's all very well to say it's a "luxury" for the people in the area but there is little or no other industry and to outlaw the trade would decimate the area. Not that cruelty should necessarily be excused on the grounds of necessity but again, to make the parallel, how popular would it be to outlaw say, lamb production outright? So it becomes a question of drawing lines and drawing them for the right reasons.

The use of images is powerful stuff these days. We all know propaganda plays a huge part in winning hearts and minds but that doesn't stop it working.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top