Cancelled BE event

[Roasted Chestnuts]

So after all the uproar over losing BE events due to one thing and another that’s an event now not running for lack of entries.

Is BE not promoting it’s still running events I’d have they all Ben left to essentially fend for themselves??

 

[MagicMelon]

Dont think BE really care these days, they just want money and leave it up to the venues to promote the events. BE have never been proactive in encouraging new venues or even just treating their current venues particularly well IMO.

I dont know where the event you're talking about is but Id guess a lot of people may have just given up on BE this year, its a lot of effort to get horses fit enough only for so many events down south to be cancelled. Also the cost of it and the abandonment drama alone would put me off personally! The current situation is screaming out for unaffiliated type clubs to get pushing their ODE's.

 

[RachelFerd]

Dont think BE really care these days, they just want money and leave it up to the venues to promote the events. BE have never been proactive in encouraging new venues or even just treating their current venues particularly well IMO.

I dont know where the event you're talking about is but Id guess a lot of people may have just given up on BE this year, its a lot of effort to get horses fit enough only for so many events down south to be cancelled. Also the cost of it and the abandonment drama alone would put me off personally! The current situation is screaming out for unaffiliated type clubs to get pushing their ODE's.

There's a whole thread on this topic (see thread "what has British Eventing done wrong" etc.)

The current situation is mainly *caused* by unaffiliated clubs pushing their ODEs and dropping the base of support out of the sport in conjunction with a cost of living crisis and people understandably having to tighten their purse strings on spending. The new pattern of entries at events seems to be a greater number of novice and intermediate horses, with less grassroots entries - which isn't sustainable long-term.

I find MM's point of view quite frustrating - BE does promote events - it has a central fixtures list, a printed calendar, and posts on social media every week about ballot and closing dates for event entries. But a role as regulatory body isn't really about promoting events - you very rarely see BD or BS promoting any specific events, that is fundamentally the job of the event organisers, not the regulatory body.

The real probem seems to be that the fixtures list process is beset with major issues and disagreements between event organisers as to their calendar slots - but quite often it is the unaffiliated events, or RC/PC events which aren't part of the fixtures process which are scheduled for dates that clash with affiliated dates. I read that the event in question (Buckminster) has some major clashes with local PC area fixtures on the same weekend, which may be a big factor in limited entries. Rather than deregulating the calendar into just unaffiliated competition, perhaps there should be MORE thought put into fixtures lists across local areas, bringing in BE, PC, RC, BD and BS and putting limitations on how unaffiliated competition is scheduled to actively avoid clashes - protecting entry numbers for everyone and letting people be able to plan better.

 

[Nicnac]

And the ground's like concrete to add to the mix. Ballot dates don't help as people are waiting last minute to enter but events are, understandably, cancelling before ballot date if poor entries due to the financial commitments they need to make to suppliers. It's all a bit of show but not of BE's making.

Social media stirring doesn't help.

 

[RachelFerd]

And the ground's like concrete to add to the mix. Ballot dates don't help as people are waiting last minute to enter but events are, understandably, cancelling before ballot date if poor entries due to the financial commitments they need to make to suppliers. It's all a bit of show but not of BE's making.

Social media stirring doesn't help.

And the way that organisers can create good ground is by having LOTS of entries and then being able to invest in the work that it takes to create good going - watering, spiking etc. etc.

I've just run at Alnwick Ford in Northumberland on absolutely beautiful going last week - but that certainly came at a cost to the organisers. I also understand that Farley Hall down in Berkshire had fantastic going this weekend - and a full complement of entries to enjoy it.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I don’t think the ODEs are what’s really killing it, It’s the cost of BE as well. Why spend £200+ going to one event when I can attend three of the same for that. The costs of going BE are quite scary, both for the competitor and for the venue.

The whole thing needs ripped up and started new with BE speaking to its venues more and working with other bodies. They seem to just be staying that it’s our way or the highway so the venues are going where the money is and it’s not BE by the looks of it.

 

[RachelFerd]

I don’t think the ODEs are what’s really killing it, It’s the cost of BE as well. Why spend £200+ going to one event when I can attend three of the same for that. The costs of going BE are quite scary, both for the competitor and for the venue.

The whole thing needs ripped up and started new with BE speaking to its venues more and working with other bodies. They seem to just be staying that it’s our way or the highway so the venues are going where the money is and it’s not BE by the looks of it.

Maybe go into the other thread and catch up on the millions of posts on the topic?

 

[ihatework]

I don’t think the ODEs are what’s really killing it, It’s the cost of BE as well. Why spend £200+ going to one event when I can attend three of the same for that. The costs of going BE are quite scary, both for the competitor and for the venue.

The whole thing needs ripped up and started new with BE speaking to its venues more and working with other bodies. They seem to just be staying that it’s our way or the highway so the venues are going where the money is and it’s not BE by the looks of it.

How many ODEs have you done recently R_C?

Do you really think you could do 3 x well run unaff for the same price as one BE?

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

….

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Maybe go into the other thread and catch up on the millions of posts on the topic?

I have but I started this purely for the buckminster event but thanks

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

How many ODEs have you done recently R_C?

Do you really think you could do 3 x well run unaff for the same price as one BE?

Not entered as Faran isn’t at that point yet but kept an eye out for anything local so I know what ime looking at.

Just had a quick google however and seen a few with entry costs of £70 so yes three of those would be £210 so my estimate of £200+ would be accurate. Say two with decent travel. So yes I believe it’s a lot cheaper and there for more appealing to many

 

[RachelFerd]

Not entered as Faran isn’t at that point yet but kept an eye out for anything local so I know what ime looking at.

Just had a quick google however and seen a few with entry costs of £70 so yes three of those would be £210 so my estimate of £200+ would be accurate. Say two with decent travel. So yes I believe it’s a lot cheaper and there for more appealing to many

You're talking rubbish though - because a single BE event isn't £200+ unless you're competing at the highest levels. You can enter a 'GoBE' for about £85 (see example here at Howick - https://www.britisheventing.com/compete/fixtures-and-results/HOWICK-(2)~10118) with no membership fees.

It is this kind of fabricating of facts which puts people off investigating and entering BE events too.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

You're talking rubbish though - because a single BE event isn't £200+ unless you're competing at the highest levels. You can enter a 'GoBE' for about £85 (see example here at Howick - https://www.britisheventing.com/compete/fixtures-and-results/HOWICK-(2)~10118) with no membership fees.

It is this kind of fabricating of facts which puts people off investigating and entering BE events too.

I get that you are a staunch BE advocate, I noticed that on the other thread, that’s great that you feel that keenly about it

however I’m entitled to my opinion on it and the costs do mount up when you go up the levels as you have pointed out.

I believe looking at the whole picture BE needs an overhaul, it needs ripped out and restarted to improve it. The current state of it doesn’t make me want to support it, so without new blood and people like yourself who are staunch support berating people like myself who would look to do it (not if fanatics like yourself are the norm with the way they speak to people who don’t currently BE) it’s going to collapse from the bottom up anyway.

 

[RachelFerd]

I get that you are a staunch BE advocate, I noticed that on the other thread, that’s great that you feel that keenly about it

however I’m entitled to my opinion on it and the costs do mount up when you go up the levels as you have pointed out.

I believe looking at the whole picture BE needs an overhaul, it needs ripped out and restarted to improve it. The current state of it doesn’t make me want to support it, so without new blood and people like yourself who are staunch support berating people like myself who would look to do it (not if fanatics like yourself are the norm with the way they speak to people who don’t currently BE) it’s going to collapse from the bottom up anyway.

But you're spreading nonsense - quoting totally made up numbers - why?

 

[ihatework]

But you're spreading nonsense - quoting totally made up numbers - why?

Why spoil a good fabricated story?!
It’s clear R_C doesn’t have any real skin in the game and doesn’t really know what they are on about. They are of course welcome to their opinion
Political response, avoid the question and go off on a tangent about something else to gloss over their inaccurate spouting of nonsense.

 

[RachelFerd]

Why spoil a good fabricated story?!
It’s clear R_C doesn’t have any real skin in the game and doesn’t really know what they are on about. They are of course welcome to their opinion
Political response, avoid the question and go off on a tangent about something else to gloss over their inaccurate spouting of nonsense.

I shouldn't get so irritated by this - but here's a thread from 2008 (https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/the-cost-of-eventing.145414/page-2) where everyone was complaining about the cost of eventing - it has always been expensive, it will always be expensive. To note from that - quote in post says it was £61 to enter an event including a start fee in 2008 - if you put that in the inflation calculator, that would be £92 in today's money - which is pretty much how much it costs to enter an event in 2023 including your start fee. It was also £110 to become a member in 2008, and it is £125 to be a standard member now - so has actually gone down if contrasted with inflation.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Why spoil a good fabricated story?!
It’s clear R_C doesn’t have any real skin in the game and doesn’t really know what they are on about. They are of course welcome to their opinion
Political response, avoid the question and go off on a tangent about something else to gloss over their inaccurate spouting of nonsense.

I don't remember. I can not recall.

BE don't do events that suit me. I need a 35-45meter course with max of 4 jumps of 1ft or less that my shetland can jump next to me course can't be any longer than that as I'm not fit enough to run much further

 

[ihatework]

I don't remember. I can not recall.

BE don't do events that suit me. I need a 35-45meter course with max of 4 jumps of 1ft or less that my shetland can jump next to me course can't be any longer than that as I'm not fit enough to run much further

The only jumping I do these days is dog agility and even then, to be fair, the pooch does the actual jumping

 

[Old school]

Yes, eventing has always been an expensive sport. That is correct.

But years ago the atmosphere was definitely more settled/steady. In today’s world ponies and horses are disposed of if they won’t make the grade. Parents spend vast sums of money buying a pony that will get their child on the team... whether pony club/affiliated competition. The element of buying your way in delivered, to the eventing table, people who were used to getting their own way or buying their way. This has slowly over time eradicated the importance of the horsemanship element of the sport.

There is no accolade for sticking with your mount, working through issues and working hard on your riding. You are seen as foolish to be persisting with a less than perfect horse.

Anyway, bringing wealthy people (mostly bolshy parents) with only their own personal objectives to the sport has been detrimental. People go on committees now to get their say in. No one speaks up for the actual sport anymore. That generation are long dead. This will lead to the social licence to operate being removed from equestrian activities in the coming years. Scrapping and rebuilding is not going to solve it. Just my tuppence worth.

 

[doodle]

Entry fees at forgandenny in a couple
Of weeks time. (I choose there as closest to me)
Certainly not £200+ per class. In fact it’s half that. Plus both days are full. I don’t do BE but I do keep an interested eye on as a few friends do and we used too. There are never a lack of the grass roots entries here

 

[Gamebird]

I shouldn't get so irritated by this - but here's a thread from 2008 (https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/the-cost-of-eventing.145414/page-2) where everyone was complaining about the cost of eventing - it has always been expensive, it will always be expensive. To note from that - quote in post says it was £61 to enter an event including a start fee in 2008 - if you put that in the inflation calculator, that would be £92 in today's money - which is pretty much how much it costs to enter an event in 2023 including your start fee. It was also £110 to become a member in 2008, and it is £125 to be a standard member now - so has actually gone down if contrasted with inflation.

Oh, that thread was brilliant reading and reminiscing! I started it all those years ago, and I am still actual (ie. real world, or at the very least FB) friends with at least half the contributors. I can tell you for interest that very few of them are still doing BE. I soldiered on until around 2013 then decided that I really couldn't afford it any more, and took a sideways step into the much cheaper worlds of open team chasing and hunt races. Quite a few on there have moved to BS, some don't compete affiliated at all, some have left horses altogether, and one reached the heady heights of 5* (actually, there are two 5* competitors on there!) and is still doing horses professionally. These were in the main very serious amateur eventers, and it is probably telling that most of them have left BE.

 

[RachelFerd]

Oh, that thread was brilliant reading and reminiscing! I started it all those years ago, and I am still actual (ie. real world, or at the very least FB) friends with at least half the contributors. I can tell you for interest that very few of them are still doing BE. I soldiered on until around 2013 then decided that I really couldn't afford it any more, and took a sideways step into the much cheaper worlds of open team chasing and hunt races. Quite a few on there have moved to BS, some don't compete affiliated at all, some have left horses altogether, and one reached the heady heights of 5* (actually, there are two 5* competitors on there!) and is still doing horses professionally. These were in the main very serious amateur eventers, and it is probably telling that most of them have left BE.

I am also real life/FB friends with a few of the contributors on the thread too (I've been floating around on these forums since the early 2000s - scary), but during 2008 I was in my early 20s, not earning much money and I think i did a grand total of one BE80 that year as I couldn't really afford to event - I remember reading that thread feeling quite frustrated that I couldn't afford to do it really at all - let alone complain about the price of three days. I'm now at a point where eventing is a bit more affordable as life has changed, and I get to be the one complaining about the price of doing three-days, except there are very few people left on H&H with much interest in it anymore. But then I guess forums are a bit of a weird old-school thing really!

 

[LEC]

I was sat round a table with several equestrian centre organisers the other day and it’s across the board entries are lower. One said that they’re committed BD attendees now either only get their qualifications and then train or they have dropped an event a month to save money. At RC we have seen entries fall across the board for qualifiers with people not so willing to go to champs now as too expensive. Clubs also make less money as tried to keep entries down while costs of paramedics and venues has gone up.

 

[RachelFerd]

I was sat round a table with several equestrian centre organisers the other day and it’s across the board entries are lower. One said that they’re committed BD attendees now either only get their qualifications and then train or they have dropped an event a month to save money. At RC we have seen entries fall across the board for qualifiers with people not so willing to go to champs now as too expensive. Clubs also make less money as tried to keep entries down while costs of paramedics and venues has gone up.

None of this feels very surprising TBH. Have to say I think that we'll see organisations ramping up the number of qualifying results needed to get to champs - I've always thought that the 5xDCs direct qualification to BS's nat amateur champs are quite a lot - but if it makes people go out to more shows, I can see that it makes sense.

British Eventing could drive a different way of direct qualifying to Badminton grassroots - say 5x DC results in a qualifying period could get a direct ticket to Badminton. You'd have to work out the exact number to make sure that didn't qualify too many people - but I suspect it wouldn't.

 

[ihatework]

I remember the mid-late 2000’s era.
It was when I was scrabbling around trying to event on a shoestring. I still remember the excitement and achievement of being able to get to a BE event (even if I was a bit rubbish and broke because of it). I just think sometimes people expect something for nothing and have it handed to them on a plate!

I’m really fortunate now to be able to be involved with BE with relative ease, but I do feel a bit guilty that I get little excitement from 100 and below stuff, just feels mundane now which is so so wrong. I now get the 2000’s buzz at FEI. Now that’s not cheap

 

[humblepie]

I am an old person and when I was affiliated show jumping Newcomers was the first class and I used to go eventing with a friend and novice was the first level- it was a huge achievement to "go affiliated" and we would mix BSJA as it was with good local village shows on grass that often had opens at 4'. There would be a strong core of us doing the same, with our DIY farm kept horses and old lorries/trailers. Not entirely sure that adds anything but it was very different. Doubt any of us had lessons we just spent the money on entry fees and diesel. On numbers they are down in lots of things, signs of the times. I show now and a show I am entered at in a couple of weeks has just 2 horses entered into a class which is a direct qualifier for a new showing championship at LIHS aka Olympia. (Unfortunately not entered in that class!)

 

[Goldenstar]

Without the lower levels BE would not exist .
They basically keep it running .
I think there’s lots of things leading to current situation but the biggest one is the cost of living for most BE is a luxury and there’s loads of ways to enjoy your horse without it .
I don’t think that the entries fees are bad value I think they represent good value for what you get at a BE event, but the cost to the competitor is not just the entry.
However competitions are a discretionary cost with a horse and its no surprise people are cutting back and doing cheaper options.

 

[Squeak]

I was sat round a table with several equestrian centre organisers the other day and it’s across the board entries are lower. One said that they’re committed BD attendees now either only get their qualifications and then train or they have dropped an event a month to save money. At RC we have seen entries fall across the board for qualifiers with people not so willing to go to champs now as too expensive. Clubs also make less money as tried to keep entries down while costs of paramedics and venues has gone up.

I'm also noticing a lot of shows with low entries in a variety of disciplines. I don't know what the answer is as I suspect that the simple answer is people just don't have the spare money at the moment. It would be a real shame if we lose shows and venues because of it.

 

[ihatework]

I'm also noticing a lot of shows with low entries in a variety of disciplines. I don't know what the answer is as I suspect that the simple answer is people just don't have the spare money at the moment. It would be a real shame if we lose shows and venues because of it.

Yes this isn’t just a BE thing … it’s across the country, we are in a period of time where belts have to be tightened and the first thing to go is the luxury stuff.
Sure the bottom rung of BE is seeing a shift into unaff, because unaff has upped its game

 

[ester]

None of this feels very surprising TBH. Have to say I think that we'll see organisations ramping up the number of qualifying results needed to get to champs - I've always thought that the 5xDCs direct qualification to BS's nat amateur champs are quite a lot - but if it makes people go out to more shows, I can see that it makes sense.

British Eventing could drive a different way of direct qualifying to Badminton grassroots - say 5x DC results in a qualifying period could get a direct ticket to Badminton. You'd have to work out the exact number to make sure that didn't qualify too many people - but I suspect it wouldn't.

Though qualification requirements have already been brought up as an issue with the number of cancellations