Can't catch my horse? (desperate for help!)

Thanks for all the advice! and as for the lack of time, I thought I would have time, but by the time I had chased him round the field, and sorted out the 2 other horses, I really had run out of time, and believe me, I know he had won once I left. Today though, I will be there all day, so will chase the little bugger for all that if needed.

As for the taking the electric fence and cornering him, I cannot see that working with him, purely because when he had no where to go in the strip, he jumped out instead of just standing and letting me get him.

For the stabling with nothing, I can't see how that would help, as surely, when he did get turned out, he would just be even worse, remembering that he was locked in a stable when he did catch?

Yes, I know he thinks he is above me, but it is really difficult, as he is the leader of his little herd, and as was gelded quite late at 5, he has some stallion tendencies, and doesn't respect anyone, as doesn't feel he should, as I think he thinks everyone is beneath him. Will be asking YO for help with this today/tomorrow though.

As for the head collar, I have tried doing it up normally, undoing the underneath and slipping it over his head, using my other horses (which is black, his normal is red), and tbh he is no different with any of these, he just lets me put his nose in, then once he realises I'm going over his head to do it up, he buggers off.

With the games, he enjoys them when I do mounted games, and gets really excited, and that is both lots of movement, and thinking, so will have to think of some games.

It's annoying, because if he was a little pony, it would be ok, but he is a bit of a 16.2hh beef cake, and is too big to be stupid :(
 
brucea said:
Well Zippo - that will make your horse trust you and want to be with you won't it? Probably not!

So many suggestions and no one has addressed root cause here. Bluntly, catching is always a relationship issue - it's about who has the authority in the relationship.

There are probably two issues here. Please don;t get upset, this is not having a go at you, just asking you to look at it from his perspective.

One is is a leadership issue - he is more dominant than you are and you are not leader of his "herd of two". You need to get into a leadership position so that following you is the natural thing to do,

and you need to get very good at a strong send and a strong bring back. There is a lot of good horse body language to learn from both Mr Roberts and from Parelli. For example you can learn the "come with me" body language.

(Yes the dreaded P word, and you can always choose to dismiss it if you want, but honestly I know lots of folks who practice this seriously and none of them have any trouble catching their horses. Quite the opposite - their horses catch them!

In fact I sneak up to the field to get my 3 horses and never call for them because if I do then I spend half an hour tamping down the divots from them galloping down to the stables!!!;) )

So important starting points are friendly games, learning to move from steady pressure and then rythmic pressure, driving him from you and bringing back - these are all things that horses do to each other to establish dominance and herd hierarchy - and if you learn them you will be in a better position to be his "leader in the herd of two".

The second issue is that it is simply not worth his time coming with you - oh, it certainly is in the winter when he wants the food, but at this time of year why should he come for a bucket he doesn't need, and to be made to work? Far more fun to be out larking about with his mates!!!

So you need to find things to do with him that make him feel that you are WAY MUCH MORE FUN to be with than the other horses. This may be initially just going for a walk in hand finding interestin gthings to eat and spending time together. It may be learning some groundwork games and finding out which ones he likes, and what his personality is. Does he like the games when he has to do a lot of movement or the games when he has to really think?

I have a cob that will play very advanced games online or at liberty, and a ginger TBxID gelding that thinks that doing a figure of eight round two traffic cones for 15 minutes is just so much fun (and has been seen doing it himelf in the play field when turned out) - different things appeal to different horses. Simple games like carrot stretches will combine fun with agility. And always lots of praise, and genuine warmth towards him.

Hope that helps...
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Ashf said:
In the Herd, a horse is either below or above. There is no level ground. It sounds like he sees you as below him, and is treating you with the contempt a 'lower horse' earns.

If you haven't got time to see it through, don't start the process as you will just reinforce his view that he can get the better of you.

If I'd have not caught him then, I would have gone back 20 minutes later and tried again, and I'd have not allowed him to rejoin the herd at all.

You have to be more bloody minded than he is !
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Ahem ! ;) lol

I didn't mention the body language bit, but we don't ever approach ours face on as they see that as a confrontational approach, and if they turn to walk away, we turn away from them and don't square up to them.
 
This is a weird option, but has worked on my lad.

As soon as he sees I have the halter, sometimes he won't be caught.

So I dump the halter by the gate, and do whatever I need to to allow me to get up beside him - normally a scoop of feed.

Once I'm beside him I start scratching up his neck, and then "put on" and invisible halter, complete with tying invisible knots, and then leading with the invisible leadrope over to the gate.

Then I can put on his regular halter, cos he thinks he's already "caught"

Weird, I know!!!
 
Only read OP so am probably repeating some of the things that have been said.

You've described my girl to a T!

Bascially what I would suggest is doing whatever you can to catch him as a "quick fix" just to get the field safe on him with some twine attached so you have something to hold onto in the future.

When my girl is being impossible it's just a case of walking her down. It took 5hrs one day...

I was at a Richard Maxwell demo/lecture weekend at the start of the month and asked him as like you I've exhausted every idea and suggestion with no joy (although she is better once field safe is on: I can get close enough to almost catch her before she goes off on one so with the twine on the halter I can hook a finger round it and then once she feels the pressure she stands for her actual halter).

Max suggested walking down; even if it takes all day. Basically the horse has 2 options; the hard one and the easy one. The easy option is to stand and be caught; the hard option is to be kept moving. So basically if your horse won't get caught then keep him moving; you're in charge.

Think I've missed a big step out.... Firstly walk him down even if it takes all day and get field safe on him. Bring him in for feed/groom/fuss even though if you're anything like me you feel like killing them and have already mentally written out the for sale ad!

He should hopefully be slightly easier to catch with field safe. Spend time doing ground work for a couple of weeks. I'm not a "p" person or into this "natural" stuff but what Max teaches/talks/writes is, to me, just good common horse sense and good horsemanship. So spend 10-20mins a day doing circling exercises getting him to move his quarters/shoulders and circling. It's all explained much better in "Unlock your horse's talent in 20mins a day" by Max.

This then gives your the "tools" to move him in the field. Keep him changing directions and making it uncomfortable not to be caught.

It's not about join up or any of that; it's just training and respect.

I'd found methods of catching my mare but they could be touch and go. However after putting Max's advice into action I can now catch her without a fieldsafe. It took 15mins last weekend to catch her but that's nothing compared to the normal time scale. Now I can keep her moving and if she wants to run about then fine she will and she'll change direction/speed/circle size when I say and only be allowed to stop when I say. Her reward is being caught.

I can now walk up to her, she backs up 3 or 4 steps and I can fling (literally) the rope around her neck and pop her headcollar on. I don't hide the headcollar or have treats, it's plain to her from the minute I open the gate that she is going to be caught. She can get carrots once she's in her stable.

It's made a massive difference and is a much more enjoyable experience going to get her in!

I'd perhaps also look at why you're horse doesn't want to get caught to get ridden. Has his saddle fit changed with the spring grass, is he bored of schooling etc etc. There could be a million and one things but if he's ok(ish) to get caught for a fuss but then changes when in work there must be something that seems like a valid reason not to get caught if that makes sense?

I highly recommend that book and speaking to or posting on MAx's forum for him to answer or seeing him in th flesh at any demo/lecture as it just gave all his written stuff a new dimension actually seeing it done.

Good luck; I know how frustrating it is!
 
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You have every ounce of my sympathy.

I've got two hoolying round a ten acre field (they broke out!) and the worst to catch has lost his headcollar...

I get near him and he just gallops off.

We're herding him in today hopefully (only day we could get hands on deck!)
 
Llewelyn said:
I'm not sure I have understood the feed bucket part - do you mean you can catch him with a large feed, but then you can't ride after because he has eaten too much?

At a feeding lecture I once went to with a major well-known feed company, the woman nutritionist said that it's a myth that they need an hour after to digest a short feed, unless you intend to gallop miles. She said hard feed only stays in the stomach for 20 mins then moves into the hind gut, so unless you have to feed him several large scoops to get near, then I would not overly worry about feeding and riding - by the time you have groomed, fiddled about and tacked up, and walked the first half mile, that's a good 30 minutes gone anyway!

But if you didn't mean that, then ignore this post as it's no use at all to you.

I am going down to do my horses now, to avoid the flames coming my way :)
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I'm totally with you on this one! It's actually recommended to feed before riding for horses with ulcers (Alfa based feeds). Maybe not a massive cereal feed, but a good bucket of fibre is no different to the fact he's been stuffing his face with grass imho. Anyway, it's his own fault :p:rolleyes:

I had one that used to do the circling around you, so I used to pretend I was lunging him. He'd float round in beautiful trot circles, so I'd start using voice aids, make him canter, trot, canter, trot, then waaaalllk. And eventually "and staaannnd" and the eejit would halt and wait for me to catch him :D
 
Thanks for that. I've now worked out how to catch him, and it is tempting him into a smaller, fences of section between his field, and the other. Because it is a much smaller space, and he is away from "his" herd, he catches faster (despite jumping out 2 days ago). Feed does work, surprisingly, and I've left a head collar on, so he should be easier to catch. As for not wanting to be brought in and worked, I have not idea why he doesn't, as we always seem to have a good time, and he always has his ears pricked etc. and I don't school masses and masses, sometimes jump, hack or do fast work, which he enjoys. I think it's just that he's feeling good about himself.

As for the circles, I have tried that, as though I was lunging him, and using the voice commands, however it didn't really seem to work. I guess he'll just have to live in his head collar until he starts respecting me, and I will definitely be doing some exercises to get him to respect me.

Thanks for all the ideas :D
 
Thanks. He's weird though, because once he is caught, he is happy as larry (despite being jabbed by the vet yesterday...), so there is really no reason for him not to catch. Weird horse, think I'll just leave his head collar on for a while, do some ground work, and then start riding after the exams are over :D
 
How old is he?

My 3 year old is exactly the same he comes running in winter but in summer you have no chance. I did a bit of join up with him last year and he did improve but then this year he is as bad as ever.

I tried him in a narrow long strip of grazing and then i would just have to walk behind him and chase him to the gate and that worked really well and eventually he learned to come in but even now if i were to walk up to him in the field he would still run off but he is 70% better hes getting broken in soon so i am hoping he might get a bit better there either that or they will be ringing me up every day to come and catch the little monster
 
Hey i know your problem, the horse ive loaned for 2ish years and a few at the stables i work at are wise to every trick in the book.
This may sound mean but have you ever tried just leaving him out and ignoring him? Obviously check him in the field to make sure he is ok but if he doesnt come to you or he doesnt let you catch him then just leave him.
I spent 1/2 hour trying to get my girly in and she just cantered round me and wouldnt let me near her at all!!
i just left her with no rug on and no dinner and funnily enough the day after when i went to get her in she was waiting at the gate and couldnt wait to get in!!
It might sound like they are winning by you leaving but really if you can make him want to come in then you have won, if that makes sense:S!!
I dunno it might work it might not, but good luck, i know how stressful it is!!!
 
I had a bad day today so understand your frustration! I couldn't get near my boy because one of the mares was in season and he was literally attached to her. She was cantering around setting the other geldings off and I couldn't steer her into a different field.

I'm considering keeping him in for a night next week just for him to be ready for the farrier in time the following morning :(

On the plus side though - I did have a nice hack yesterday and even got sun burnt!

Just stay positive and don't let him see that you are frustrated - trust me I know that it can be easier said than done!
 
I agree with much of the advice on this thread re sectioning off an area and/or "walking the horse down", making the caught experience pleasant (if a horse suddenly becomes difficult to catch without a reasonable explanation it's worth looking into physical/stress related causes, although I know that's not the case here) and generally using the principles of negative and positive reinforcement (which is what ALL good training systems are based on, regardless of what label gets hung on them) to teach the horse that getting caught easily is both the path of least resistance and the more profitable way to go.

That said, one point on the social order theory that a horse will allow itself to be caught by a "dominant" horse . . . Leaving aside that we now know herd dynamics are not that simple at all, there is no guarantee that a horse will welcome the advance of a horse higher up the order than itself, in fact it can be quite the opposite! Obviously, if the higher ordered horse makes ANY aggressive move, even just eye contact, the smart lower ordered horse will get the heck out of the way. And, with training, it will learn to STAY out of the way of a higher ordered horse, just in case. Not that it will leap away in fear - that's not how ordered, stable herds operate - but that it will be mindful of the other horse's space and expect to yield to it.

The exception is its horse "friends", the ones it practices mutual grooming, fly swishing, food pile sharing etc. with. Their contact will be actively sought out and anticipated.

I am not advocating any particular path with this, just pointing out the possible inaccuracies in applying what has become a very simplified version of fitting people into a horse herd. Horses do know we're not horses. :) I agree that we have to explain things in horse language - hence the success of walking a horse down, as it's one of the methods horses use with each other - and understand why and how horses communicate as they do, but we also have to remember we ask them to do many things that are not "naturally horsey" so it's not always so cut and dried as "do this and the horse will do that". However attractive that idea might be. ;)

The fact is, like most things with horses, they are "taught" to be caught so early and so thoroughly that they don't know "no" is an option. But every now and then you get one that either gets taught the opposite or just figures out that there is no profit in being caught. They are very very frustrating as you can't "explain" much to a horse that won't let you near it!
 
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