Canter help please?

[Pidge]

Ok now Pidge is back doing canter work since having his steroid injection we have discovered one issue!
His canter is much better than before, nice and round and bouncy whereas before it was very long and quick. Have been working on his left rein more as that is his worse canter. But he has now discovered the art of snatching when cantering

he is currently in a double bridle and for those that know him he is a big horse. So tips please for helping to stop him snatching the bit when cantering?

 

[ColleenIsh]

Only thing I can suggest is carry your hands slightly higher ?

 

[Pidge]

What will that do?

 

[ColleenIsh]

Without seeing him exactly , I dont know if rising your hands will stop him or help to be honest .


When you say snatching is he lowering his head and generally running away on you ? Pulling you out of the saddle at all or pulling you forward ?

What work are you doing with him at the minute ? are you doing plenty of transitions ?

 

[Pidge]

he's lowering his head and pulling me out of the saddle by pulling me forwards.
Lots of transitions, leg yielding, shoulder in, travers, shallow loops, flexing one way then the other etc etc. Just started to do this in canter only

 

[Kiko]

That sounds like exactly what my boy is doing! Glad I'm not the only one! He only does it in the school, not out hacking. He does it in trot also, throws his head forwards and down and comes to a standstill because i've lost my balance. Its such hard work pushing him forward and trying to keep his head up. I've got some hope now

x

 

[ColleenIsh]

have you always rode him in a double bridle ? or did i read that wrong ?

 

[Pidge]

only since he had the treatment for his hock spavin and we lost all brakes in a snaffle as he was feeling so good

the treatment has freed up his hock and he can now do lateral movements, there is no leaning on the left (he used to pull my arm out of the socket) and he is much freer through his back.

 

[ColleenIsh]

Can you try another bit that isnt so heavy in his mouth ?

 

[Patches]

Arrr Patches does this too sometimes. Snatches her head down to her knees and pulls me forwards when cantering.

Got to love our horses when they're feeling so much better eh? Thankfully she doesn't do it on a fun ride as I bridge the reins so she's pulling against herself..not me.

 

[Mooch]

I'm soooooooooooo glad it's not just me that has a horse that does this!

Milly doesn't snatch but she is a bugger for leaning and like Pidge she is a bloody big girl. She drops on to the forehand, pokes her nose out and leans, leans, leans!

It makes it bloody hard work for me as I am far from the greatest rider.

I ditto the ride with your hands higher. My instructor gets me to do this with Milly and I have to carry them very forward too. She then hasn't got anything to lean on and can't grab hold of the bit. All this is reinforced with half halts, voice commands of 'Off' and me riding her forward.

She doesn't do it to bolt off with me, so I am very greatful for that.

I am also trying different bits at the mo. Like you we do circles, various transitions, shoulder in, flexing, serpentines, half circles, plenty of half halts and playing with the reins.

The one thing I am working on is not letting her lean on me in the first place and trying to pre-empt (sp) when she is going to do it. (not easy when your not great yourself! lol)

I would be tempted to put him back to a normal bridle and do a couple of schooling sessions with a strong bit as a reminder to him about manners.

I hope his high spirts settle back down soon.

 

[Pidge]

am loathe at the moment to drop the bit down as he is working well in the double, bar this slight problem, and he is feeling far too well in himself at the moment

 

[Pidge]

That's the one Clare, I know it well

touch wood he hasn't done this out with me yet

but he's just got those huge shoulders and neck and wham forward I go

I suppose I could bridge the reins when schooling and see what happens? When you bridge the reins with Patches does she attempt to do it?

 

[Pidge]

Ah slight difference with Pidge as he will be cantering nicely all round and bouncy and then wham forward he lunges

Ooh err I don't like the sound of riding with my hands up and forward, could be interesting speed wise

he used to lean very heavily on the left rein but for the past couple of weeks hasn't done this at all and is actually learning to carry himself, thank god as I'm not sure my left arm could have taken much more

I hope his high spirits settle down soon, especially if we get the go ahead to jump again, note to self check the life insurance first..................

 

[Mooch]

Oooops, I can see why you don't want to have your hands forward!!!

Can you feel when he is about to do it, or does it come from nowhere?

 

[Pidge]

yes could be very interesting, however since he's come together more it might not be as bad as I think

unfortunately not, on the lesson last week he did 2 really nice canters on the right and one on the left. Did another canter on the right and wham out of the blue he lunges forward

no warning whatsoever

 

[Partoow]

I think it may be a good idea to think why he needs to do this and what it tells you. Then you can understand the way through the problem.
Ok as i see it and i may be wrong, your boy has had a hock problem that is now better?
He seems to be strongly 'one' sided. he sounds very much like my headgirls horse who she has ,before coming to work with me had a very similar problem and also a similar way of tackling the problem, she used a pelham.
Ok for me i dont like using 'curb' bits to control this kind of thing and it may actually be one of the contributing factors.
by lunging he is taking control of his balance again in the neck rather than 'finding' his hindleg. You see what happens in the hand is a symptom of what is not happening behind you.
Canter tends to show the reliance of the horse on the hand because it has a lot more 'momentum' and this is difficult to balance.
I would keep him in the bridoon ,but possibly use one with big rings and i would then work on keeping him on a 20m square so that he takes the connection forward to the hand and then halt facing the fence you can get really quite close in walk and by teaching him to expect this halt he will antisipate the halt in the outside rein staying tall in your body and with bent elbows above your hips. He needs to feel your balance is there and unmoveable. You may find it useful to use a strap between the 'd'-rings on your saddle ans tuck your thumbs under, this will stabilise your hand and give you support if he 'grabs ' at the bridle.Also keep in mind that every transition up and down that they must be generated first in the hindleg. Once you have halted keep an even straight connection with his head and neck in the middle of his chest , turn your shoulders take his outside shoulder and tap at the girth with the inside leg at the girth with the outside leg behind the girth to keep both hind legs stepping forward.
Sometimes when you have a horse like this they draw you into making compromises with you position. Try and keep your breast bone up and grow upwards through your ribs. This makes you strong in the 'core' and gives stability so that when he gets tired which it sounds like why he is snatching he has support in your balance and by working on transitions in walk trot on the square you will develope the activity of the hock, develope his strength without adding strain. You dont need to be in canter to improve it.
By making him 'wait' in the corners of your square you are develoing the half halt by teaching him to 'find' hs hindleg not your hand. So by using a physical exercise of the 'square' you are teaching him the need to find his hindleg in response to the activation at the leg and the guidance of the hand so he sees it as help not as punishment. A strong bit can teach them to fight the connection and yes when you are jumping you may need to increase the bitting but i think if you go back to basics , build him up and try and really think of keeping a regular rhythmn so that he learns to carry himself rather than run on to the hand, the double bridle is disguising this by backing him off it which he can cope with in the walk and trot but has developed a need to fight it with the added momentum of the canter.
Sorry but it really is a matter of time and patience and he will get that he can balance. Size really does'nt have that much to do with it , if we think of it as a game of strength the horse regardless of size will win; we have to use our heads to develope the listening not make it a physical fight.

 

[Pidge]

thanks for the reply partoow
Yes Pidge was diagnosed with Hock Spavin and has had a cortisteroid jab in his hock and is on Newmarket Joint Supplement.
What you've said makes a lot of sense, thanks

, have been working very hard with instructor to get him using himself properly and so far so good, just this blip! So much so that sometimes when I get off I can hardly walk as I've been using my leg muscles far more than ever before

We have managed to get some lovely work in walk and trot and when he lifts and drops it is amazing

We've built up from a few strides to 2 20m circles now, so getting there slowly.
Instructor wants me to keep him in the double for the time being, so is it worth trying him back in the snaffle when schooling myself and seeing how he goes?
So basically do a turn about the forehand when I get to the fence when doing the square.

 

[Partoow]

No a quarter turn on the haunches so that he activates the inside hind and 'contains' that energy in the outside rein.it then gives the feeling of outside shoulder in advance of the inside hind leg.
i would check to see if you can manage without the double as it will be better if he could start to listen and work with you rather than being held in by the connection.
Good luck i know its a rocky road bringing back a horse after injury. x

 

[Pidge]

well just had a disastrous lesson tonight

walk and trot were fine but then tried canter, on the left rein to start with

too quick and inside out

he then started cantering sideways

and I sort of gave up then

he was snatching the bit and just wanted to go at his speed

right canter wasn't really much better and then the trot went to pot too

couldn't even get him to trot without pinging into canter

took some time out and then did some squares in walk, where he did go better and listen and use his backend and drop in front and instructor said it would be an 8

the trot then was at least sane and we did have one decent canter on the right rein to finish with. Just feel so despondent at the moment - I can't ride to save my life and Pidge just has far too much energy. I know I should look at the fact that the walk and trot has improved no end and I know it has but it feels like the canter is so much worse, not in the actual pace as it is much better than before but just in general

god I can't even make sense anymore

instructor says his snatching is due to him being tired as he is still getting used to working like this. Just sat here crying...................

 

[Partoow]

Dont be too hard on yourself, when you have tough times like this they can quite often lead to real development mile stones because it makes you look at areas in your training and you'll both come out the other side all the better for it.
See Pidge's energy like the water in a hose that is really on full, you have to think of 'dirrecting' the flow through the connection , i hate to 'bang' on about this but i think he is getting stuck behind the connection because he does not want to go 'through' the bridle and therefore the energy in the hind leg is getting 'stuck' , rather like when you have a 'kink' in the hose, this leads to the 'bouncing and lack of straightness.
dont give in or give up. you Will get through this and it will be all the better for the learning experience, but like 'love' it's not all roses and it can be ; at times painful!!!!
Chin up !

 

[Pidge]

that hosepipe thing makes sense as in the canter his backend was all over the place to start with

Am putting him back in his kk tonight and will report back later on, that is if he hasn't killed me with all this energy - bouncing sideways in canter down the school is not nice

I suppose I ought to be glad he doesn't buck or rear or nap

I think it just feels worse at the moment as the walk and trot have improved no end its just the canter now that needs to get there. thanks ever so much for your advice, much appreciated