Canter problems, expert advice appreciated!

[pencompo]

We have recently bought a really sweet confidence giving Connemara. He was very straight and easy until recently.....it seems that he has now got his confidence in his new home and has started getting a bit cocky. The problem is in canter, he get's strong, bucks and throws his head up, threatening to smash me in the face. Please be assured this is not back/teeth problem....I know this because most of the time he is lovely and soft and settled, he only displays this behavior when he wants to go faster, i.e. if asked to settle behind another, or when keen to go home. The other day, he bucked and unseated me which resulted in me catching him in the mouth, he then stood up and jumped sideways, it's only because I'm closely related to inspector gadget that I did not end up on the deck. I am confident this is evasive and not pain related. I really need to get it sorted before I hunt him though, and also he is no longer fulfilling his role as a confidence giver, quite the opposite.
I am considering martingales, but don't really believe in using tack to fix a problem, especially in a young horse, so I am only considering it as a temporary retraining measure. However I'm not entirely sure which would be the right one to use. I don't want to use side reins.
I would love to hear of anyone's (positive) experience of solving this problem and or feelings about martingales.
Thank you very much.

 

[be positive]

I often use a martingale as a temporary aid, it will only come into use when required and is not going to restrict the horse otherwise. I would also use one for hunting as standard unless I knew it was not going to be required.
He may be finding his feet and getting fitter so you really need to get to grips with him now before the behaviour snowballs, more work, less food for a while

Sidereins are a totally different ball game though, they would not be suitable for hunting or jumping so I would only use them for lunging or on a naughty childs pony.

 

[111ex111]

Have no experience with this but seen a few friends deal with this sort of behavior.

every time he bucks, try circling him, then make him canter again. if he bucks, circle him in a really tight circle. do this until he canters the way you want him to. even if it takes an hour, just dont give in. as soon as he does a nice canter get off and finish your ride.

This helped with my friends pony who bucked in the school at every corner. However if you say its on hacks etc this might not work

 

[Marydoll]

I'm not an expert, but a running martingale will stop him getting his head above the point of control as long as its fitted properly, as long as youre sure its not a pain issue, he sounds like he needs more schooling while hacking in a safe hacking type situation, in enclosed fields or the like, then when he's okay and behaving with that, try hacking out again, i personally school in the arena without a martingale, but use one out hacking with my tb who events and can throw her head up when excited and jumping

 

[highlandponygirl]

We have recently bought a really sweet confidence giving Connemara. He was very straight and easy until recently.....it seems that he has now got his confidence in his new home and has started getting a bit cocky. The problem is in canter, he get's strong, bucks and throws his head up, threatening to smash me in the face. Please be assured this is not back/teeth problem....I know this because most of the time he is lovely and soft and settled, he only displays this behavior when he wants to go faster, i.e. if asked to settle behind another, or when keen to go home. The other day, he bucked and unseated me which resulted in me catching him in the mouth, he then stood up and jumped sideways, it's only because I'm closely related to inspector gadget that I did not end up on the deck. I am confident this is evasive and not pain related. I really need to get it sorted before I hunt him though, and also he is no longer fulfilling his role as a confidence giver, quite the opposite.

I am considering martingales, but don't really believe in using tack to fix a problem, especially in a young horse, so I am only considering it as a temporary retraining measure. However I'm not entirely sure which would be the right one to use. I don't want to use side reins.
I would love to hear of anyone's (positive) experience of solving this problem and or feelings about martingales.
Thank you very much.

I used to ride a riding school pony who would do similar. Riders were taught to strike of in canter at letter A or C and canter the long side of the school or out on a hack there is only really one or two places where we could go for a good canter/gallop. Unfortunately that ment the pony started to anticpate canter when ever we were at A,C or when out hacking and would start rushing and getting excitable and strong on approach.
Do you school her? Do lots varied exercises? Is he anticipating canter?

First of all though anyway, I would be very sure that it isn't pain related. Then some lesson with a good instructor who can help you solve this. In the meantime you could try a martingale on him to see if it helps.

Also how long have you had him and was he sold as a 'confidence giver' and you were satisfied that that was what you got?

 

[pencompo]

I agree, this needs nipping in the bud. He's not getting any food, except good quality grass. Which is better running or standing martingale? My concern is that since this is evasive behaviour, if I apply a martingale and stop him getting his head up, the energy will run through his back and he will buck more. What does anyone think?

 

[highlandponygirl]

I agree, this needs nipping in the bud. He's not getting any food, except good quality grass. Which is better running or standing martingale? My concern is that since this is evasive behaviour, if I apply a martingale and stop him getting his head up, the energy will run through his back and he will buck more. What does anyone think?

I would probably use a running martingale on him as it wont restrict his head from moving if he wants to but will still give you the contact you need to control him whereas the standing ones are more restricting.

 

[Wheels]

Well first of all I don't think you can be 100% sure that at least some of this is not pain related. Maybe it is partially related to pain and partially related to over exuberance or possibly it is because he has a remembered pain from a previous incident.

Personally I would want to rule pain out as a possibility before thinking about the behaviour side of things.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Is it only in canter and on hacks he displays this behaivour?

If it's canter I'd be getting his back checked.

IF he's okay then you need to work on getting him listening to you, lots of transitions in walk and trot, transitions within the pace, especially in trot. I would do lots of canter-trot-canter transitions in the school, again working on getting him to listen to you.

When he bucks, drive him FORWARDS as much as possible. Even if he gallops, the more forward he is, the less likely he is to buck. Keep cantering short and sweet until the situation's improving. And leave cantering on hacks until it is.

 

[pencompo]

here's the thing....it's NOT pain related, if it were it would surely show itself at other times, not just when he's not getting his own way. We do a lot of cantering and he goes beautifully so long as he's in front, or on his own and going away from home. I am in total agreement that horses are often trying to tell you they are uncomfortable, but this is definitely evasive.
We don't have a school, we ride round a large estate in open parkland, woodland and orchards, there are also lots of jumping options. We don't go round in circles much and our horses need to be able to deal with fast work in a calm and sensible way.
Maybe he needs to be sent away for a bit of schooling.....?

 

[Wheels]

Here's the thing.... It COULD be pain related and unless you get it checked out you will never cure your little problem. I don't understand why you are so against getting your horse looked over.

Maybe he does get excited which makes him raise his head which then triggers pain, there are many possible reasons why your horse could be doing this.

 

[pencompo]

Having worked in welfare for a long time I am only too aware of all the possible pain issues. However, as I have said several times; I have now ruled this out, not least because he has been thoroughly vetted and checked as well as having had visits from both back specialist and dentist. (At the time of and shortly after recent purchase). I think when we become in tune with our horses and start to really know them, we are better able to deduce likely causes, that is why I was asking for a solution that assumed the cause of the issue, in this case, was not pain.

 

[Wheels]

Fine. If it isn't pain then what do you think triggers the response you are getting? Is it wanting to race from fear of being left behind?

 

[be positive]

It sounds like a pony pushing his luck to me, not wanting to go behind and trying to speed up on the way home is normal behaviour in many horses and ponies it is trying to break the bad habits that is the problem here.
Has he been ridden by a child and allowed to have the lead, possibly with a race or two, many kids will let their ponies become more whizzy towards the end of their time together, once the confidence is gained they trust the pony and allow the manners to slip.

 

[be positive]

Fine. If it isn't pain then what do you think triggers the response you are getting? Is it wanting to race from fear of being left behind?

Why does it have to be either fear or pain, high spirits can cause the same reaction as can being razzed up in similar situations, the joy of racing with another equine can be seen when they are loose it does not mean they are scared.

 

[Wheels]

It doesn't have to be fear or pain but I like to rule these two things out first and work on them if necessary before adding gadgets. The op has only just bought the horse so doesn't really know for sure what is causing the response. For me it is important to know the cause before deciding on a way forward.

 

[pencompo]

yep, the horse wants to be in front, which is of course a natural instinct, and has got his own way with a rider less strong than me, the bucking and head tossing has come about because he is getting cross (and possibly then a little anxious) and fighting me for not letting him get his own way. But fighting weight for weight with a horse is a pretty hopeless and dangerous game. Ideally I want him to settle and enjoy his rides again and I don't mind the odd straight high jinx buck, it's the evasive and fighting behaviour which I want to stop. I did change his bit for one of a rolly design but this is what caught him when I was unseated and prob what caused him to rear. I've put him back in a happy mouth now because stopping is not my problem. I'm really after advice re tack as a remedial short term option to get these ideas out of his head before he starts taking charge.

 

[be positive]

I think the best route for now is to avoid the situation, that is not giving in just giving yourself time to get back in control, I would trot or walk behind another horse but not canter yet, take him upsides and get him really steady in canter let him learn to relax go in front for a bit and then back upsides. Once you are more able to dictate the pace start in front then drop back for a short while, vary your routine, try and avoid cantering in the same place, sometimes let him bowl on sometimes do loads of trot canter transitions to keep him thinking.
You will need a good person to ride out with you that can control their horse and work with you for a while.

Ponies are bright and if he thinks it is fun to be rude he will be, if you can get him onside and listening he should be quick to pick up good habits, plenty of praise when he responds will help.
A running martingale would also help but I would avoid a strong bit as if he over reacts the rearing would make matters worse.

 

[Littlelegs]

I would just give him something else to put his energy into, depending on the level of schooling. If you want a calm working canter, & he wants to tank, let him use that energy for collected canter, or changes, or whatever he can do. And if he's only got three basic working paces, improve the schooling when he's calm & give both of you more options of exercises to amuse him. Plus, somewhere you think he may get silly, get him working & occupied well before he gets silly. If he's nutting you in the face, put a standing martingale on. A correctly fitted one won't stop him raising his head, but will stop it getting high enough to smash your face. And unlike a running isn't affecting either mouth or contact. So when habit broke, can simply be removed as they have no effect unless the head gets pretty high. If you aren't sure how to fit one, get a good instructor to help.
In addition, it is a connie. Ime connies have a very determined stubborn streak & don't take well to being told what they can or can't do. So the more you say no, the more they say yes to prove a point. The flipside is, once on your side, they will do pretty much anything you ask. But I find compromise & asking are the key. So instead of 'no you won't tank off' commands, 'please can we do shoulder in' gets better responses.

 

[Goldenstar]

He bucks then throws his head up ?
What type of bucks is he doing are they both legs staight back with out the head going down a lot does he keep the hock under him or lash they out behind , or does he buck and twist to one side if so is it always the same side he twists too.
Or does they lower his head to buck and take all four legs off the same side at the same time.
What's happening when he throws his head back ?
The horse that turely committed to moving forwards does not buck .
Does he always end with throwing the head up or does he buck again after.

 

[pencompo]

thanks everyone. I have now booked an expert to come and help me this evening. Hopefully she will come out with me on my beautifully behaved Criollo horse and see whats going on. I'll keep you posted on any developments.

 

[TrasaM]

I was talking to a relative of mine who breeds connemaras when I was in Ireland recently. He told me about a trainer he knows who was given a horse to sort out as it kept running away with it's rider. He got on and horse did same with him except once it started he didn't allow it to stop and kept it running until it was exhausted and couldn't run any further. Said horse went back to owner and did not repeat it's trick again. Dont know if youve enough space to do thst to him. It might work or he might think Yippee! this is great. Either way right now he's trying to take charge and is testing you.

I also ride a arab X TB who does same. He likes to be ahead and if held back will do same as yours. He's 19 and it's how he's always been. I was warned about it when I first rode him and because of my being a novice they made sure that I was always in the lead in canters. The one time he thought another horse was going past he went into a flat out gallop. That was my first gsllop lesson! He's too old to change and as he just hacks out we just work around his little 'quirk' and stay prepared for the occasional unexpected blast.

 

[JFTDWS]

I would just give him something else to put his energy into, depending on the level of schooling. If you want a calm working canter, & he wants to tank, let him use that energy for collected canter, or changes, or whatever he can do. And if he's only got three basic working paces, improve the schooling when he's calm & give both of you more options of exercises to amuse him. Plus, somewhere you think he may get silly, get him working & occupied well before he gets silly. If he's nutting you in the face, put a standing martingale on. A correctly fitted one won't stop him raising his head, but will stop it getting high enough to smash your face. And unlike a running isn't affecting either mouth or contact. So when habit broke, can simply be removed as they have no effect unless the head gets pretty high. If you aren't sure how to fit one, get a good instructor to help.

What littlelegs said ^ particularly the key statements in bold.

 

[elduende]

I've had the same problem and resorted to a standing martingale when hacking out. Correctly fitted, my lad didn't seem to find it too restrictive and it did put a stop to a lot of head throwing and rearing. I would never school in one but I'm all for safety first when out - neck strap, martingale and Ive found a Mylor bit helped. Now he knows he is going to be allowed to go on at a decent speed, the problem seems to have vanished but I still use the standing martingale when hacking just in case.