Career plan - help

[bigboyrocky]

I was having a chat with my instructor the other day about what i want to do after year 11, and knew i was going to leave to work with horses but didnt have much of an idea where to go next...
Before any one jumps down my throat at not staying on at school (even though i probably should as definatley not stupid!!) i have had my mind made up on this since i was 11 and have many reasons for it. One of it being money... Single mum struggles to pay for one horse now, and i dont compete/have lessons as much as id love to due to finances, so ive always had it in my head that i was leaving to earn money so that i could have freedom over how much i competed etc...
I have been thinking about my convosation with my istructor, and have since decided this (to me) seems like the most viable option....

Find an event yard looking for a groom/working pupil, where i could take my one horse, but where i could also (in time) find rides from the yard i was working at. (somewhere where i could do my exams whilst working e.g BHS stages etc) I also have a few owners lined up for when i leave school which is absoloutley amazing, but i was just wondering if this sounds like a reasonable plan and also, do you think a grooms wage (plus bar work in the evening) would be enough to pay for me to event one horse?

I really have no set picture in my mind as of yet, so need as many opinions as possible, as I dont want to leave school and find myself 6 months on with no real income, leaving me unable to event. (As its really not fair to ask mum to carry on paying for it when i am capable of working) Also, my 17th birthday is less than 2months after i wil leave school so it shoudlnt be too long before i am driving

Sorry for the long post, and please giveme your opinions on anything ive said as i want to have a really clear picture before i leave.

Thankyou guys

 

[jonny]

I think everyone our age {including me} would love to do this! but its just not realistic. I would personally do A-levels then consider doing what your currently thinking in your gap year, and carry it on if it works. This gives you some sort of backbone for which you could utilise to take to University if things did not work out as you planned. It is NEVER a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket, its best to keep your options open and not set your mind on one specific thing; you'll only be disappointed if it doesn't all work out. As you constantly hear horses are MONEY, MONEY AND MORE MONEY! and you need some healthy salary to fund it all yourself, even with just the one horse.

X X

 

[millitiger]

i worked with horses from 16-20 and then decided i wanted to earn proper money, have time to ride my own horses, get a mortgage etc.

i worked as a working pupil for 18 months at a dressage yard and then went on to be headgirl at an eventing yard. i was riding about 8 horses a day, had a few youngsters to compete as well as my own horse.

if you get a WP position at a decent yard you should have your horse on livery for free, lots of tuition and enough pocket money to event.
very rarely will you find a yard which pays enough to finance and run a car as well though!

i don't regret what i did at all- i don't wish i had done A-Levels and Uni as in my current job i work alongside and above a lot of people with degrees.
i am only 23 so if i had gone to Uni i would have missed out on a lot of life experience which i have got under my belt- and it was that which got me my current job!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

obviously people DO do this, and clearly it works for them, but be clear-you will be earning a pittance, and after you've paid your entries etc will have basically nothing left! so no nice new clothes, no pretty little bits and bobs for the horse, no big nights out, no nice new car etc.

i looked at doing this after my A levels (but SJ not eventing) and came to the conclusion that i didnt want to spend 3/4 year earning nothing, and still be working my arse off in the cold and rain when i was 60! hence i decided to get a *proper* job and be a very serious amateur.

i love my office job,and i do teach and take in schooling liveries on the side, and i wouldnt want to do horses full time now.

not trying to put you off, just be very clear about whether you will miss the nice bits in life and whether you are ok just getting by each month.

money doesnt make you happy but it does make the world go round, sadly, and as you get older (and im *only* 26 BTW) your priorites do change-i want to earn enough for my little cottage, for a new car next year, to go on holiday with my OH,to treat my self to nice clothes, to treat the one horse to the latests gear, etc, IE to have a normal life around the horses.

 

[TheMule]

Not many yards will take someone on who has more than one horse to ride, or be happy about you nicking rides whilst there.
My advice would be to do your A levels and work in a bar in the evening so you're earning your own horse money and then re-evaluate what you want to do. You can still go be a WP in the summer holidays.

 

[seabiscuit]

a few points-
a) it is very very difficult to find a good working pupil position where you are offered the ultimate package of free livery, free accomadation and free lessons and transport for the horse to comps let alone be based at a good yard that can train you in the right way ( many working pupil positions on offer are being run by rubbish trainers that cant teach/train) Or they will say they can offer you training but never have the time to train you properly.

b) it is near impossible to get given rides and to have owners- there are quite a few exceptional riders on this forum, and others that I know of in real life and they never have offers of rides. Still, it is all about contacts I suppose, if you know the right people then you are quids in!

c)You'll earn a pittance and always struggle for money. There will come a point where you think oh god, I wish I had gone to uni and got qualifications etc , there are many jobs that fit in well with riding..i.e you can do nursing which has a starting salary of £25k a year, the work will be shift work, so plenty of daylight time to ride horses, and the degree course is only 3 years , which is all paid for by the goverment!

BUT somtimes a riding career can happen, if you are talented and determined enough and have the right contacts/network!

 

[Kat]

You have had some good advice here.

I think you need to sit back and evaluate things very carefully. You need to think about where you want to be in the future and how you want your life to pan out as well as considering how good you actually are at riding.

If you genuinely believe (and your instructor agrees) that you are good enough to be eventing at a high level then maybe it is worth pursuing.

You can always return to education although it is more difficult as an adult, you can always continue with horses alongside education and work too.

My advice would be not to narrow your options too much. Consider the following options

1. Stay on in education, go to a 6th form college rather than a school so that you have more free time, do some a-levels and work at the same time so you have money coming in. Do your BHS stages too and see how you get on. Once you are a BHSAI it will be easier to earn money through horses. When you finish your a-levels consider whether a career with horses is for you or whether you should apply for a different job or pursue additional qualifications.

2. Leave school and get a job as you plan to, make sure that your training includes doing the BHS stages (as they are a recognised qualification) but sign up to do a-levels part time. This means that you have back-up if the equestrian career goes wrong and stay in the habit of studying, it will also be quicker if you decide to do something else.

3. Stay on at school and work just in the holidays and evenings, again get your stages at the same time. Then if you still want to follow an equestrian path when you leave defer your uni place, take a year out and see how you get on.

16 is very young to be making any longterm decisions and not many people these days have decent jobs that don't involve any post 16 education. So focus on keeping all your options open. A good employer will respect your wish to continue studying and support this.

It is not worth getting a grooms job that will not give you excellent experience and decent qualifications. Consider career progression and the potential for earning in the future. Consider whether you want to have children in future and what you would want to do then. Consider the transferrability of your skills and how flexible your job can be, consider also what you would do if you suffered an injury that affected your riding.

If you are genuinely an excellent rider and also intelligent you could apply for scholarships to do your a-levels at a school or college that also allows you to continue with horses like St Ethelburgers.

 

[Firewell]

I agree that you should sit tight for now and do A levels while you really think if this is what you want.

I have a friend who just gave up a position as a working pupil for a top Event rider. It had something to do with the plaiting up 12 horses before 5am, working all hours in all weathers for practically nothing. Theres only so much time and energy you will have left for your own horse and rides not to mention being piss poor!

I would concentrate on getting a good education and good job. Im 27 and I showjumped my horse around Aevels and a part time job. I then went to Hartpury college to do an Equine Business degree. I took my own horse with me, competed my horse, met lots of friends, learnt tons and had a great time! There were also scholarships and bursars orffered for those really exceptional riders competing *properly*.

When I finished my degree because the business part of my degree I did at the bristol business school I got a job at a well known large bank! It was shift work which is perfect. I worked 6.45-1.45 or 2.15-9.15. It basically meant I had a full half day of daylight hours to ride horses, I could even compete mid week! I could swap my shifts around if I felt like it, it was really flexible.

I could afford a new car, thermatex rugs, new saddle, lessons ect and even better is I had time to enjoy them!

When I went back to pick up my degree and met my friends I couldnt help but feel slightly smug.. Here I was with plenty of money to afford what I wanted and I effectivly worked half a day! There some of them were, struggling as grooms, earning nothing, nackered and no time to do their own horses justice.

Its not easy to find flexible, well paid jobs but they are definitly out there and I would choose that route every time.

 

[kit279]

I would strongly advise you to stay in school and go to university if you can.

The working pupil salary may seem like a lot of money now, when you are quite young, but it is peanuts in comparison to the costs of real life eg. running a car, renting accomodation, paying for your entries, paying for your car when it breaks down etc. Your education is free at this point in time and if you don't take advantage of it now, it is properly hard to go back to school at a later point, particularly when you're older and need the money to live. One day (and it happens faster than you think, school goes really slowly and then suddenly real life whooshes you by!) you will want to be able to afford to go on nice holidays, have nice things and maybe buy a house with someone. If you have no qualifications, all of those things will be harder for you - not impossible but unquestionably harder.

Also, yard work is knackering. You're up at the crack of dawn, you basically spend your days mucking out and you're too tired to do your own horse at the end of it. Someone once told me about something called the 'Tesco Test' - basically you calculate how many hours work you're doing, how much you're being paid and then compare it to how much you'd earn at Tesco's.

Don't just look at the short term here, do look at the longer term. Working with horses can be pretty risky and an injury that means you can't work properly will mean you're out of work and pretty stuffed as you're unlikely to have sick pay. As an example, my friend has completely ruptured a cruciate ligament in his knee - he can't muck out, he can't jump and really he can't ride very effectively at the moment. Barring a little leverage from me, his wait time to have it repaired could be in excess of 6 months, the op only has a 70% success rate and then he's looking at 3 months rehab before he'll be fit to go - by which time he'll have lost pretty much all the muscle in one leg and he'll be like Bambi on ice. If you don't have A-levels or a degree, what can you fall back on if it all goes a bit wrong?

I know I sound like the voice of doom - why not go and do a summer as a working pupil and see whether it's for you. Go and talk to someone who is a bit older and doing what you want to do and see how it is for them.

 

[bigboyrocky]

Thankyou for all these comments. Its all really helpful

I dont think i help my self to be honest. I'm one of these people that if im going to do something, i do it to the full. I dont like the thought of being an ametuer, and id prefer to give eventing my best shot, with the risk of ending up working in tescos in ten years time if it all goes wrong! Im that prepared to risk it... call me stupid, but thats just me!

I definatley know that working pupil money is absoloute peanuts, but as long as im competing, im happy! Dont care about cars, clothes etc.. (weird i know). Paul nichols is also close to me and i have thought about riding out for htem saturday morning as apprently the pay isnt too bad and its very social

Millitiger - Its great to know that there are jobs out there who arent looking for hundreds of qualifictions. Mum also has one of these jobs... She works from 9-3 and gets about £14/hour after taxes, so it does show that its not all about qualifications, as she has none whatsoever - not even GCSEs/O-levels! And shes dyslexic! Obviously this is VERY rare

Thanks for all your input guys, definatley triggered different trails of thought which is exactlky what i needed Will have a long hard think although wont make any immediate decisions!

 

[MillbrookSong]

Why not try and get a job full time in racing?? Almost proper money and bonus's quaterly (pool money - a % of the yards winnings) I have enough time to train a point to pointer and an eventer. I work in the summer and when i can on weekends for my trainer in return for lessons and sometimes transport. Its almost the perfect set up!! Hope this helps

 

[bigboyrocky]

that sounds great - will definatley look into that! Thanks

 

[diggerbez]

i think that you really need to think about how realistic it is that you will make it as a professional...i'm sure you don't need me to tell you that its a very competitive world out there. to me you don't really have a career plan as such- you just have a short term plan for the next few years... yes going to be a WP will be fantastic experience but you aren't going to want to be a groom for the rest of your life...so then how are you going to afford a yard of your own to base yourself from? realistically this is what you will need as you will have more than the one horse (presumably you will get rides from people)- but then you are so reliant on others to buy horses for you- then if you don't get the results the horse could get sold from underneath you... so that is something that you need to be prepared for. personally if i were you i would take my A levels and then do a GAP year at the end to see if eventing is going to be for you. to me, if you are that talented you will still be talented in two years....

 

[brushingboots]

i was in the same position, i'd always had my mind made up that i wanted to leave at 16 however i made a tough choice that education should be taken over horses, i've had several offers from school and i am now off to 6th form. However much i do love my horses and want to take it up as a career whilst teaching, i've decided that i need something to fall back on. Horses will always be there, however your education wont. It's perfectly plausable to mix your horse with your education to give you a foundation on which you can stand. I intend to keep riding 3 a day after school and both my school now and new school finish at 4:30, and event during exams ect. I think it definitley would be worth staying on at 6th form or going to college to study equine buisness managment or something along those lines as it will help you and you will have something to fall back on

 

[Grey_Eventer]

Im the same age as you and i always thought, why not just leave school, be a working pupil and compete? but then i thought... ok when i am 50, what will i be doing then... will i have really got anywhere... I am the type who always strives for better, and if you have the brain then why not?
There is nothing wrong with being a working pupil, they work bl00dy hard having done work experience at event yards, and they do get to compete but i think you may find yourself being unsatisfied with the income vs. the amount of work put in.
I would personally stay on and get some A levels, or can you go to a college and get like a thingy there, not really sure, but like a friend of mine went to a 6th form college at 16 and is becoming a vet nurse....
In my interviews for my next school, they always asked how are you going to balance riding and your education... i firstly said that as much as i love my horses, education has to come first- horses will be there forever, but you can't get back education if you know what i mean... yes you can sit re-takes etc. but thats not always ideal.... and a headmistress of a school said to me that if i really wanted it all, i could have it all, you just have to make the time.
I really do think staying until your 18 would be good, you could get a part time job- which is what i am doing, and yes wont be lots of money, but will be some to help towards competing.
I also think that if you want to be a serious eventer- do you? then you will find it very difficult to fit a) working as a working pupil b) working as a bar staff and c) riding other peoples horses all into yuor life. When i did my work experience, i got home at about 6 and just collapsed, it really is that tiring! and also how would you fit in riding other peoples horses if you could only take your horse with you? just a thought...
Either way, good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[henryhorn]

If you are set on a career with horses then yes, the plan sounds ok.
The hard bit is finding someone who will pay you enough to live on and event your horse, because until you have a fair bit of working experience most places don't pay that well.
My daughter spent a couple of years working for peanuts as a WP but learning her trade, rode zillions of horses etc and eventually ended up at one of the top event yards on a decent wage plus house.
Even then she has had to relearn everything to their way of things, but once you get there, the rewards are good.
You may find however that many yards won't allow you your own horse as they want you to concentrate on theirs.
There are things you can do to help yourself progress and be more attractive to potential employers, once you are old enough there is a scheme whereby if your boss puts you forward you can train as an HGV driver paid for by a grant, this enables you to drive an HGV under the normal age of 21. (you will need your normal licence first of course). Most people train on the job building a portfolio of how to load/travel horses etc.
Eventing on your own is near on impossible without sponsorship, but if you can get enough owners then I do know someone who does it that way, she also works part time in a variety of jobs.
My "parent" head tells me to say really, you need another skill which would provide you with sufficient funds to do your horses, but if that's all you want to do, then go for it.
Choose one of the best yards you can get into, perhaps be prepared not to compete for the first year, and also to be starting at the bottom.
The other thing is and that is something only you can answer, do you really have the talent to do the job? There are hundreds of grooms out there but few with the ability to get on top horses and ride them without detriment, so unless you feel totally confident you have that think again about a different career and keeping horses as a hobby.
I can give you advice on where to go and where not (!) so feel free to pm me.
I would counsel against going to College, yes you end up with qualifications but when you look for a job as an event groom, they want experience and not your stages..
Best of luck..

 

[bigboyrocky]

henryhorn, it says you do not wish to recieve PM's?? could you email me at ellirobins@googlemail.com if you se this then i will reply with what i wanted to say? Thankyou!!

 

[SpottedCat]

Talk to ElleJS - she is now a professional eventer with 4* experience but she also has a degree which IMO is the smart option...after all, what if you sustain an injury which stops you riding before you've hit the top levels? With nothing to fall back on you become one of many people with an AI who's ridden at say intermediate, and they're ten a penny and earning power is limited....

 

[JustMe22]

I know everybody's said it, but I'm going to second the A levels option.

Yes, its two more years in school, and I know exactly your sentiments on that. I didn't want to do them, but I've somehow ended up doing a degree through correspondence whilst riding.
My theory really is that two years isn't a whole lot longer. You could still work part time, and you'll come out of it two years older, with a lot more qualifications. That way you have a back up plan, which is always good. Closing off all your options seems slightly pointless (not trying to be mean, just practical!)
And provided you can still ride whilst in the last two years of school, you won't be missing out on that much. WP positions are readily available to 18+, and sometimes yards are even happier to take them.

William Fox-Pitt went to uni I'm just saying, it is possible to get it right without having a back up - but its much less stress on you if you know that if something happens you can have a back up. Say you get injured and can't ride? But only have GCSE's..then you're a little stuck. I know nobody likes to consider things like that..but it never hurts to consider all eventualities and have a fall back if necessary, even if only for piece of mind.

 

[bigboyrocky]

hmmm some very valid points.. btw i am greatful for all these opinions and JustMe22 - not mean at all! your giving me your opinion which is what i asked for and its a great help

Soooo much to consider :/ your all making me think twice about A levels!! Never thought that would happen! I think im going to ask to have a chat with the deputy head at school, who is very involved with the 6th form centre, and also does alot with the business department, and see what the minimum amount of subjects required is, what subjects are available and things like that... If only i could just take one subject! ... Business!!!!

 

[MegaBeast]

It's surprising the number of event riders at a high level actually have degrees.....

The danger with the plan you're thinking of is how will you save up enough money to have anything of your own? Ie your own yard, and what about if yo don't make it, you won't have a house you can call your own, any financial backing or skills to fall back on.

Those who do manage to graft a spot for theselves generally have financial support from their parents before trying to stand on their own two feet.

I'd definitely recomend getting A levels at the very least and for preference a degree too.

I personally wouldn't like to be getting to my mid thirties to forties with no money behind me, no deposit for a house, basically nothing to show for it. Sadly you've got to take the long term view. And I' just 25, although going on 45 at times!!

And as others have said, you'd be lucky to get a wp position on a yard which will allow you your own horse, plus others, and time to ride and compete

 

[jules89]

do your A levels. I never wanted to do mine. Got offered a travelling groom job on a top yard after my summer of GCSE;s working for him, and nearly took it, but did A levels and managed a yard inbetween AS and A in that summer and then became a yard rider after A levels. However...you could fall off and injure yourself any day (sorry to be sombre) and never be able to ride again. The money is cr!p and a lot of people working on yard suffer from the exceptionally high BE fees.

If you have a whole family and wealth behind you then maybe just maybe you can succeed but personally I would say do your A levels. I spent all my frees riding or in the pub and if I had the opportunity to do it again, I would - the parties were ace

 

[Mabel98]

At your age all i wanted to do was leave school and be a working pupil but my parents made me stay on and do A levels and then a degree. I hated them at the time but now, 20 years later, I am very grateful. After uni, i went to Talland and eventually ended up running my own yard and becoming a BHSII. I loved it but a serious accident combined with the realisation that there was more to life than horses, led to me getting a good job which now pays for my hobby. This wouldn't have been possible without a good education. Obviously you may be very talented but don't put your eggs in one basket. It's much harder to go back to education later on. Good luck!

 

[Lolo]

My sister is in a similar postion to you- she wants to event and do it professionally. However, she is going to the local 6th form, doing her A-levels and then hopefully going to the UEA to study to become a primary schoo,teacher or something similar. I think that that's a very sensible option (the UEA is a 40 minute drive from our house) and allows her to have good earning potential yet stay local enough to event from home pretty much.

 

[henryhorn]

Sorry I do, but this mad system has stopped them getting through!
I will email you now..

 

[bigboyrocky]

Thanks henryhorn thats brilliant
Lolo - sensible yes! But definatley not for me i might aswell stay at school for the rest of my life if i were to become a teacher - its not the work i dont want to do for A levels, but its the time that i need. I am really deteremined to become professional/full time, so anything like that isnt really an option, but i hope it goes well for your sister!!!

 

[Grey_Eventer]

Thanks henryhorn thats brilliant
Lolo - sensible yes! But definatley not for me i might aswell stay at school for the rest of my life if i were to become a teacher - its not the work i dont want to do for A levels, but its the time that i need. I am really deteremined to become professional/full time, so anything like that isnt really an option, but i hope it goes well for your sister!!!

I think you have got to think about that you have one shot at education pretty much... you have years of eventing- yes there are plenty of young eventers, but the really good ones are 35+ and i think if you just spent 2 more years in education, and maybe 2/3 at uni it really would be beneficial to you.
Eventing isn't like gymastics, you don't peak at aged 17... thats the wonderful thing about riding, you can never know everything....
I think also in our current situation, qualifications are needed- whatever you want to do.
Lets just say you didn't make it big time, then what would you do if you had no qualifications other than GCSEs?
I really think you should think about what you want to be doing when you are 50... if you do go down the WP route, you can't really make enough money to then become a pro. eventer...
Yes there are a few out there that made it big time with no financial backing from parents etc. but you need to think realistically... you will have very little time as a WP to event yours, let a lone other peoples...
I think if you did do your A levels, you would be able to acheive so much more out of life, and it would give you something to fall back on....

I so wish i could become a pro eventer, but i realised that my parents cannot afford it and that's where the money would really come from!

There are so many years ahead of you to become a pro eventer and i think doing A levels would be a really good idea....

I think if you didn't take your A Levels, you would end up regretting it later on down the line...

 

[millitiger]

as an aside- i didn't do any education further than GCSE's because i went to be a WP/groom.

i finished at 20 and straightaway got a 1/2 decent job, a year later got a slightly better job which enabled me to get a mortgage etc.

i am now 23 with a reasonable job which pays for my mortgage, my new Mini, my 2 horses on full livery- all with only GCSE's!

it annoys me that people seem to think you will only be able to work as a checkout girl if you don't do A-Levels etc.
i am in a better position than 90% of other 23yros- i have no huge student debt and i have years of work already on my CV.

also, the reason a lot of top eventers have degrees is that a lot of top eventers were heavily funded by mummy and daddy when they were younger. WFP had his mum to ride his eventers during the week and i am pretty certain any debt he may have run up would have been covered by parents.

 

[JustMe22]

Its not that you CAN'T get a decent job with only GCSE's, but the truth is when you get to say 35 or so, there are far fewer people with well paying jobs who only have GCSE's than people in the same jobs with A levels/degrees and whatnot. I think people are just trying to say its safer to keep your options as open as possible and not pigeon hole yourself into one area so early on.

I just think its best not to close off all your options. I very nearly didn't start my degree (because it meant quitting riding completely and moving overseas) but my parents absolutely point blank refused to not let me get one. As it is, I'm studying via Uni of London, but doing correpsondence. That way I don't have to quit riding, but I still come out of it with a respectable degree.

I dunno, it is hard work, and not for everybody..but I still don't think having A levels is a bad idea. That way, if pro riding doesn't work out..you can always go to uni at a later stage
And at the end of the day..if you continue riding as an amateur for an extra two years...you will still be talented when you're 18 And will also not be somebody who can 'only' do horses - which may not happen with only GCSE's, but it may well. Its safer not to take the risk I would've thought.

 

[millitiger]

of course in an ideal world everyone would get a degree/ further education, what i am saying is there ARE well paid jobs out there for people who don't have a degree.

my dad wanted me to go into further education- i got all A's/A*'s at GCSE with no revising at all, i went to college for 5 months and was predicted all A's for my 5 A-Levels.

but i dropped out, moved out when i was 16 and got a job as a WP- my life didn't end, i'm not on the dole now and actually have people working beneath me with degrees (including a few with Firsts in Business/Economics etc).

i am now in an industry with room for promotions up the ladder, flexible hours in most businesses, and further training on the job if i want (paid for by my company).
not one of the people in my immediate team of 4 people have degrees, including my boss who is only a year older than me.

out of interest, the people who are at Uni/planning on going/ just left who is paying for your horse/ accomodation/ tuition fees etc while you are studying?
fwiw, my mum would never have been able to afford to run my horse for me or pay for my time at Uni- not everyone is lucky enough to have that and i made the choice that i didn't want a huge student debt hanging over me.

i am just trying to put across the other side of the coin- i was extremely academic, found school very easy but was so unhappy being stuck in a classroom when i was missing out on the world going on outside the window.
i'm just not sure if the doom and gloom in this thread about leaving school at 16 is really warranted- particularly when i look at the companies i have worked for and see so many people with no degree who are doing extremely well for themselves.