Carriage Driving Advice

dorsetladette

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Hi Everyone,

We are looking at options to send either Robin or Reggie or Both away to be broken to drive (separately).

Finding someone trustworthy to send them too within a commutable distance is proving really hard. We've found one person who we went to talk to the weekend before last. She gave us lots of things to think about and more research to do. I'm not from a driving background (dad broke a few to drive when I was very young and the ran a yard/stud) and my OH only really helped his dad with a few small ponies, so we do not have experience or knowledge in this area. It's all very new to us so will need some/ a lot of hand holding - which we are happy to pay for.

The lady we spoke to is approximately 1 hour from us and these are the points we took away from our meeting/chat.

  • Typically takes 8 week give or take, depending on the pony
  • Will teach us to drive and tack up/hitch up on school master. Once we/pony is ready transfer us across to our own pony.
  • will need shoes as worked everyday on concrete drive way and roads once consistent in the school long reining.
  • They prefer a 4 wheeler and we currently have a 2 wheeler.
  • they use their own equipment to start with and then set our harness and carriage up correctly for our pony.
  • Will make sure we are competent and happy before sending us home.
  • Will come to our place and support on our first trip out from home.
  • Happy to offer ongoing support.
  • offered a taster session driving a school master before ours goes to them.
Ideally I'd like to go and talk to a couple of other people to get a feel for what we need and would benefit from, but finding anyone in our area seems impossible. Apart from the not caravan dwelling community I'm having no look asking for recommendations locally. I've spoken with Dorset carriage driving club, British Driving society, contacted local harness retailers, who have all recommended people several hours away which isn't ideal as we won't be able to see or be part of the process.

My trouble is I'm a researcher. I want to know everything I can if I'm going to start something new. I currently feel like there's a whole world of 'stuff' I don't know, but I don't know what I don't know or need to know - does that even make sense?

So if anyone had any advise for an over thinker it would be gratefully received.

What should I be asking for?
What question should I be asking?
Are 4 wheelers better than 2 wheelers? or is it personal preference?
Where is a good place to buy good quality second hand harness (we have very cheap second hand sets which we bought to just get ponies used to wearing different things when they were young but aren't good enough for actual use)?
Where is a good place to look for second hand 4 wheelers?
Anything else we should know?

We will need to go down the second hand route with harness and carriage to start with as we don't have a bottomless pit of money to through into what will ultimately be both ponies second jobs. The lady we spoke to sells her own brand of carriages and harness which have been designed based on her knowledge and experience driving lots of different types of horses, both are very impressive, but our pockets aren't deep enough to buy new on top of the breaking and training costs.
 

tda

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It was always advised to start in a 2 wheeler less chance of jac-knife for a beginner pony or driver. If you only have a 2 wheeler then pony needs to be started in one i would say.
Haven't bought any for years but you can get the brown leather Maltese harness cheaply, or a 2nd hand synthetic set -zilco or similar will do
Tonnes of 2nd hand stuff around eBay etc
Sorry don't know anyone in your area
 

dorsetladette

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It was always advised to start in a 2 wheeler less chance of jac-knife for a beginner pony or driver. If you only have a 2 wheeler then pony needs to be started in one i would say.
Haven't bought any for years but you can get the brown leather Maltese harness cheaply, or a 2nd hand synthetic set -zilco or similar will do
Tonnes of 2nd hand stuff around eBay etc
Sorry don't know anyone in your area

Thank you - lady we spoke to suggested 2 wheeler more dangerous if pony rears? and the 4 wheeler is more stable. OH like the traditional look of our 2 wheeler, but I just want the ponies to be happy in their work.

I'll have a look on ebay for some synthetic harness.
 

ester

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On Facebook get on british carriage driving chit chat and british carriage driving buy and sell (for harness - also worth asking lots of people hang on to harnesses that they might sell if asked).

Generally I think people mostly break to a 4 wheeler these days.

I think because there aren’t many people good at breaking to carriage (and even experienced drivers often don’t break their own as not set up for it) it’s usual for people to give recommendations quite far away.
 

dorsetladette

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On Facebook get on british carriage driving chit chat and british carriage driving buy and sell (for harness - also worth asking lots of people hang on to harnesses that they might sell if asked).

Generally I think people mostly break to a 4 wheeler these days.

I think because there aren’t many people good at breaking to carriage (and even experienced drivers often don’t break their own as not set up for it) it’s usual for people to give recommendations quite far away.

Thank you I'm on the buy and sell page but didn't know about the chit chat one, I'll have a look now.


Yes there is a real gap in the market in the south (obviously for people with the experience/knowledge) apart from the lady we went to see, we've had recommendations in west wales, Cumbria and Kent. It's a shame as the guy in Cumbria was so helpful with advise and I really liked the way he spoke about his process.
 

nellietinker

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Mark Broadbent is in Devon he has competed internationally at driving. He used to take horses and ponies for breaking. He does driver training courses.
 

Hobo2

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Have you spoken to Clare Turner at Skylands , Stalbridge ? She runs the odd BHS driving clinics at her spot. Worth speaking to her if you haven’t already.
 

dorsetladette

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Mark Broadbent is in Devon he has competed internationally at driving. He used to take horses and ponies for breaking. He does driver training courses.

Thank you - I'll have a look later.

Have you spoken to Clare Turner at Skylands , Stalbridge ? She runs the odd BHS driving clinics at her spot. Worth speaking to her if you haven’t already.

I haven't. I haven't come across her name before - thank you.
 

fatponee

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Echo Ester's comments above.

If the lady you've spoken to is who I think it is (SS?), I have only heard good things. A lot of experienced training available for both pony and driver.

Regarding harness, unlike much riding equipment, once you've bought it, you're set for life.

Best of luck.
 

honetpot

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I had our PC pony broken to drive, by a couple who judge. I didn't buy anything until I knew he was going to be safe in a carriage, and managed to pick up an cheap exercise cart for about £150, and then had them check it over. Our pony had seen and done about everything and was just outgrown, IMO if you think the pony is likely to rear its a no, because its a driving novice pony with a novice driver. In the end it was me who didn't take to the driving, although the pony did as asked. So I would check that you like it.
There are people who break to drive, and there are people who will train and put miles on the clock. Our local trainer takes them down to the railway crossing, does stunt work as well as competitions and an another is renowned for taking them anywhere, trains at high level but has not a qualification to his name.
 

SpeedyPony

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Mum had her pony broken to drive and ended up needing a full collar for him, as a breast collar wasn't the best fit for the pony and her cart- the chap who broke him in used her exercise cart and she was able to buy a collar second hand from someone he knew.
If you are able to borrow harness or whoever is breaking them in has harness of their own, I would be inclined to wait and see what will suit your setup best, as you may find what you need isn't quite what you expected at the outset.
As far as I know two/four wheelers are largely personal preference- there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but two wheelers are usually cheaper/easier to source second hand.
 

ester

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I definitely think the option to have some schoolmaster lessons will be really helpful it is quite different and there can be a lot to think about.

Re. purchasing stuff a friend recently got into it (somerset friend so not well placed for the people I know who would be best to help), she started off with a basic leather harness but it really didn't fit great in most places so ended up going pick and mix to size. At which point I learned that harness fit also isn't a static process it's very much how everything moves too- driving rara's Ive not really had to have much input to that!
She also bought a cheapish old carriage off someone who said it would fit the pony (without getting me to check with peeps that know), it was too small, so she had to go carriage shopping twice in fairly quick succession so sometimes it is better to get it right the first time. It depends what you think you will want to do medium term though. Carriage wise there are non traveller sellers on dragon driving if not on the facebook pages.

(I do get being a researcher obv!)
 

Pearlsasinger

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I had our PC pony broken to drive, by a couple who judge. I didn't buy anything until I knew he was going to be safe in a carriage, and managed to pick up an cheap exercise cart for about £150, and then had them check it over. Our pony had seen and done about everything and was just outgrown, IMO if you think the pony is likely to rear its a no, because its a driving novice pony with a novice driver. In the end it was me who didn't take to the driving, although the pony did as asked. So I would check that you like it.
There are people who break to drive, and there are people who will train and put miles on the clock. Our local trainer takes them down to the railway crossing, does stunt work as well as competitions and an another is renowned for taking them anywhere, trains at high level but has not a qualification to his name.
I was just going to say, have you had any driving lessons? I hated driving. Our Welsh Section A was a super driven pony but I couldn't get used to being so far away from the pony. It's a miracle I didn't fall off the front of the cart. Dad drove her but he wasn't a rider.
 

dorsetladette

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I was just going to say, have you had any driving lessons? I hated driving. Our Welsh Section A was a super driven pony but I couldn't get used to being so far away from the pony. It's a miracle I didn't fall off the front of the cart. Dad drove her but he wasn't a rider.

This is what I'm worried about. The reins are to long for my liking. It's OH that wants to drive them to be more involved with the horses. The lady we spoke to said OH will be easier to teach than me as he isn't a rider.
 

meleeka

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Did you go to Grayswood? I had a lesson there a couple of years ago now and will definitely send the pony there if/when the time comes for him to be restarted. (long story, but he's not my pony). When I left she said to ring her if I needed any advice at all and I do think she's pretty well used for that purpose. I have friends who learnt to drive with her, then went on to start their ponies themselves, with her guidance. She's also got a big network to source gear from, so would probably help there. I'd book a couple of lessons first to see if it's something that you'd enjoy and you'll pick up loads of info just from that and also get a good feel for their set up.
 

dorsetladette

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Did you go to Grayswood? I had a lesson there a couple of years ago now and will definitely send the pony there if/when the time comes for him to be restarted. (long story, but he's not my pony). When I left she said to ring her if I needed any advice at all and I do think she's pretty well used for that purpose. I have friends who learnt to drive with her, then went on to start their ponies themselves, with her guidance. She's also got a big network to source gear from, so would probably help there. I'd book a couple of lessons first to see if it's something that you'd enjoy and you'll pick up loads of info just from that and also get a good feel for their set up.

Yes, Sam seems amazingly knowledgeable. She's on the BDS committee. I'd like to be able to speak to other people to get a feel for things. If I was sending away for schooling (riding) I'd know exactly what boxes I wanted ticking to achieve the things I wanted but this is all a bit alien.

I think a few lessons to get a feel for driving would be beneficial to both of us. I think an over night with Fenix in Devon (mentioned up thread) with a lesson might be nice as well as some lessons at Grayswood.

We went and watched an event Dorset carriage driving club had on last weekend just to see what set ups people had/used etc. Everyone had a 4 wheeler but they were doing obstacles and cone work in the school so that makes sense. We walked round the lorry park and looked at how everyone transported everything. It's amazing what you can fit in a 3 horse lorry. Unfortunately ours is only a 2 horse box - potentially another expense.
 
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dorsetladette

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Echo Ester's comments above.

If the lady you've spoken to is who I think it is (SS?), I have only heard good things. A lot of experienced training available for both pony and driver.

Regarding harness, unlike much riding equipment, once you've bought it, you're set for life.

Best of luck.

The very lady.
 

I'm Dun

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Just go with Sam. Shes very very very good at what she does and good with the people side as well. Let her guide you, she will keep you right. If you know nothing its easy to get it wrong without meaning to.
 

ester

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Tow bar in the box and small trailer, sorted 😅.

It’s categorically not a cheap hobby but people do manage to do cheaper if that makes sense. It’s slightly why mini Shetlands are popular as you can chuck them and their 2 wheelers in a standard ifor and sorted. Someone with 2 carriages got one in the back of an open back landrover which seemed impressive. Never watched them actually doing it though 😅.

People used to do trials in 2 wheelers, the videos are terrifying it seemed to be quite normal to tip up and carry on 😅
 

dorsetladette

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Tow bar in the box and small trailer, sorted 😅.

It’s categorically not a cheap hobby but people do manage to do cheaper if that makes sense. It’s slightly why mini Shetlands are popular as you can chuck them and their 2 wheelers in a standard ifor and sorted. Someone with 2 carriages got one in the back of an open back landrover which seemed impressive. Never watched them actually doing it though 😅.


Good point about towbar - could use OH work trailer (Ifor flat bed type with trailer). OH is handy with vehicle electrics.
People used to do trials in 2 wheelers, the videos are terrifying it seemed to be quite normal to tip up and carry on 😅

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

I'm Dun

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Tow bar in the box and small trailer, sorted 😅.

It’s categorically not a cheap hobby but people do manage to do cheaper if that makes sense. It’s slightly why mini Shetlands are popular as you can chuck them and their 2 wheelers in a standard ifor and sorted. Someone with 2 carriages got one in the back of an open back landrover which seemed impressive. Never watched them actually doing it though 😅.

People used to do trials in 2 wheelers, the videos are terrifying it seemed to be quite normal to tip up and carry on 😅

I tried and failed to find the videos. It was absolutely crazy and put me off 2 wheelers for life!
 

Exasperated

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Thank you - lady we spoke to suggested 2 wheeler more dangerous if pony rears? and the 4 wheeler is more stable. OH like the traditional look of our 2 wheeler, but I just want the ponies to be happy in their work.

I'll have a look on ebay for some synthetic harness.
Four wheelers pick up less of the horse’s motion, are often seen as a smoother ride, but are much easier to jackknife or flip on a sharp turn.
Has your existing two wheeler got a brake, or will the pony be breeching as the brake? If you’re going to ‘learn’ with braked vehicles, you probably do need some supervision, or risk applying it unhelpfully. A sound pony can hold back a lightweight two wheeler on seriously steep hills.
The general intention is to school ponies so they don’t resort to bucking or rearing....if yours are already that way inclined, perhaps think again? There’s an awful lot can go wrong with skittish or sharp ponies in today’s traffic.
Personally, would opt for a two wheel exercise vehicle at your stage.
If you’ve got basic ‘horse sense’, you know these ponies well, and they have appropriate temperaments (and temperament for harness work is probably more important than the animal having four legs): buy Sallie Walrond’s A Guide to Driving Horses and do the job yourself.
Far more satisfying, and difficult to go far wrong. Enjoy!
 
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Gloi

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It was always advised to start in a 2 wheeler less chance of jac-knife for a beginner pony or driver. If you only have a 2 wheeler then pony needs to be started in one i would say.
Haven't bought any for years but you can get the brown leather Maltese harness cheaply, or a 2nd hand synthetic set -zilco or similar will do
Tonnes of 2nd hand stuff around eBay etc
Sorry don't know anyone in your area
I agree with this start in the 2 wheeler. Long ago I managed to jack knife and turn over a 4 wheel exercise cart when the pony messed about. I like the Tedex harness too and it resells well.
 

dorsetladette

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Four wheelers pick up less of the horse’s motion, are often seen as a smoother ride, but are much easier to jackknife or flip on a sharp turn.
Has your existing two wheeler got a brake, or will the pony be breeching as the brake? If you’re going to ‘learn’ with braked vehicles, you probably do need some supervision, or risk applying it unhelpfully. A sound pony can hold back a lightweight two wheeler on seriously steep hills.
The general intention is to school ponies so they don’t resort to bucking or rearing....if yours are already that way inclined, perhaps think again? There’s an awful lot can go wrong with skittish or sharp ponies in today’s traffic.
Personally, would opt for a two wheel exercise vehicle at your stage.
If you’ve got basic ‘horse sense’, you know these ponies well, and they have appropriate temperaments (and temperament for harness work is probably more important than the animal having four legs): buy Sallie Walrond’s A Guide to Driving Horses and do the job yourself.
Far more satisfying, and difficult to go far wrong. Enjoy!
Thank you.

Ponies are neither rearers or buckers, just what was mentioned about the stability difference between the two different types.

2 wheel doesn't have a break but the 4 wheelers have front and back breaks. I'm going to soak up as much information as I can. Happy to do most of the pre putting to a cart parts as both ours have already done a lot of long reining and desensitisation stuff as we've had both since babies. But I'm aware there is a process the same with backing and I'm also aware that I'm likely doing things in a way that another person may not which could hinder the process.

I enjoy backing/breaking ponies to ride but I'm really not sure I'd want to break to driving myself.

Thank you for the book recommendation. I'll have a look.
 
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Gloi

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I was a pretty crazy teenager and I think I could write a book about all the stupid things I did driving ponies back then. I'm glad the roads were quieter.
 

I'm Dun

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Honestly, dont do it yourself, so much can go wrong, and that's if you can even find the competent help you need. I've helped put a fair few ponies to, spent thousands on lessons and backed loads of ridden ponies. Mine went away. They did a much better job than I could ever have done, far quicker and the end result was a pony who went out to an indoor driving trial 3 weeks later and got a 9 for her centre line. I'm sure at that point I could have muddled through, I'd been driving for about 18 months by that point, done a lot of unaffiliated driving trials , and was clearly ok driving a green pony, etc, but just no. You get one chance and if it goes wrong that's it, your pony never drives again.
 
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