Catch 22 - mudfever

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Sophstar

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I need advice with my currently going bald legged cob:rolleyes:

I posted a couple of weeks about his scabby legs. Essentially all his heels and lower legs are clear but the strips from behind his knee down his cannon and then the front of his hind legs are scabby. Not scabby with sores underneath, scabby where the hair then falls out and he's left with pink skin baring the world. Some people suggested mallenders as he's not bothered by it at all and if i hadn't thoroughly inspected his legs, scratching with my nails, you would never be able to tell there was anything going on underneath the hair.

I'm caught in catch 22. He's currently in overnight as we are flooded AGAIN but he usually lives out 24/7 with sudocrem and oil coated legs. When he's in I have to bandage his hinds otherwise he walks out like a true arthritic robot in the morning, which means hosing his legs off (as my 2 get oiled I usually let the mud slide off and avoid the hose entirely). I towel dry them and have been smothering bepathen cream on the bare skin and thoroughly rubbing in baby oil to loosen the scabs off. After hosing him off tonight, hair is just coming out in clumps and I am very rapidly getting a bald legged cob. Again, bepathen on the pink bald bits and baby oil rubbed in but I've left him with no bandages to see if letting his skin and hair dry will help. However, he will most likely be stiff tomorrow.

Advice? Not sure whether to give his legs a thorough bath to wash out the accumulating sudocrem/bepathen etc and slap on a very thick layer of oil and not touch them until he needs re oiling and see if he can cope without his legs being bandaged when he stays in as the more I try to do, the more bald he gets! :mad:

Brat pony is scab free *touch wood*
 
I would be inclined to cold hose off and towel dry if coming in muddy and if you need to bandage I would not oil/cream the legs till the morning when they are dry/bandages removed.

Barrier health Hoof to Heel contains lanolin and I find more effective on sallenders / mallenders.
 
I would find somewhere dry to turn out eg a barn, or at least mud free eg an arena, so you don't need to hose the legs. Failing that I'd try increasing the exercise, bandaging overnight and if necessary buteing for the stiffness, while leaving in 24/7 (apart from exercise).
 
I'd try not bandaging him till legs back to normal, assuming the stiffness wears off once out. I'd give his legs a wash with hibiscrub, then when dry put a thin layer of green oils on over the scabby bits. Not a huge blob like you might do on a wound, just smeared round actual scabs, it loosens them, is greasy enough to provide protection, & has mild healing properties too. If he's now going to be staying in overnight for the rest of winter, once scab free I'd run the clippers down his legs in the direction of the hair to shorten it so legs easier to look after.
 
Everyone who has experienced it in their horses has their own convictions about mud fever, sallenders and mallenders.

My own is never to hose. I do have a routine where, if my mare comes out in mallenders and sallenders her legs are shampooed with coal tar shampoo every other day for a week. Apart from then her legs are NEVER, NEVER hosed. She lives out 24/7, her legs are treated, when needed, with baby oil and, on my vet's advice, the scabs are never picked off, just left to slide gently down the hair when they're ready to go.

As a result she has no hair loss to speak of and, inspite of the current dreadful conditons, has healthy, non-itchy legs. I keep her feather (not substantial at the best of times) gently trimeed to about "+ inches, but never clipped.

Whether this is approved treatment I care not - it works - for her at least!
 
Treat from the inside, my elderly stiff cob started on glucosamine & msm in the spring and the mud fever I've battled all his life has gone! Nothing else has changed in his management.
Done some research and mud warrior supplement contains msm so guess this is the magic ingredient, but msm from vet vits lots cheaper!
He's also a lot less stiff, which was the reason for the supplements, but 1 very happy owner to have accidentally cured mud fever.
 
I second anyone who has said do not hose. Water will make things worse.

Try looking at it from a cellular level... this bacteria is literally killing off the epidermis layer and what you are hosing is the hypodermis!!! This is very sensitive and where blood capillaries lie. The epidermis is where hair follicles are, pores, glands live and this is what the bacteria and fungus is living on. You hosing must feel like burning!!!!

The bacteria and fungus cannot live in DRY conditions, it sounds as if your boy has a very deep infection. Which is why so many people are suggesting you try and keep him as dry as possible.

To be honest, I would be asking the vet for a steroid injection just to help his body cope with the agony.

Stop all the creams and bandages, anything that creates a damp condition where the infection THRIVES.

W1bbler has hit the nail on the head, help it from the inside. Skin integrity is clearly weak or else the bacteria would have been stopped at the body's primary defence barrier... the skin surface.

Does he have a good vitamin and mineral source? Calcium, zinc, copper all help the skin. Vitamin E is also essential.

If you feel you must put on something topical, try neat tea tree oil or eucalyptus oil this dries so is ideal. It's a natural antibacterial and antifungal and should help kill off the bacteria and fungus.

I have used homeopathy with great success on stubborn cases but reluctant to tell you on here as many people think homeopathy is a load of tosh. If interested PM me and I will try to help.
 
Try to keep the legs dry and as you are stuck with him in you have the best opportunity to get on top of the mudfever.

If you have to wash then wash with Nizoral - it will kill off the fungus that sets off the mudfever. Kill that and the rest will start to sort itself out. Hibiscrub is far too drying and is supposed to be for non broken skin - to sterilise a surgeons hands prior to surgery.

Please avoid a steroid injection unless absolutely desperate - steroid injections can upset the pancreas and the horse is then at risk of becoming insulin resistant.

I'd be putting zinc ointment on the legs, Aand then bandage over. I find that hand towels make great bandage pads when there are ointments to be used. I fold them in half - short edge to short edge with the fold at the top.

To treat from within make sure the horse is getting sufficient Copper & Zinc in his diet as these two minerals are very important in the production of sound skin.
 
I've had a young horse with dermatitis, (whilst we call it mud fever - this was not related to mud) so my experiences might be interesting.

Like yours he had large bald patches, he didn't really get scabs just scurf. I was finally able to knock it on the head this Summer with the following regime.

Every 2 days a gentle wash in hibiscrub or malaseb, rinse and dry, then apply Clomatrizole (canasten), I also applied the canasten twice a day every day for the 1st 3 months and then daily for a couple of months. I think a lot of these skin issues are casued by fungus and they do take months to clear The solution is to pay attention to them and treat them daily, be really thorough and rigorous.

Mine was made worse by a steroid cream, so I would be careful of those, the skin needs to be strong not weakened. I also tried every known treatment recommended on here and on internet searches they were not realy of use as I had to know what to treat, and in my boys case it was fungal. I tried supplements and whilst I think they are essential alongside a topical treatment, I would aggressively treat the legs so they don't get worse. If you are really strugling it might be worth getting a skin scrape to see what nasty bug is causing this problem, & what you should be targetting (bacteria/fungus?)
 
siennamum said:
I also applied the canasten twice a day every day for the 1st 3 months and then daily for a couple of months. I think a lot of these skin issues are casued by fungus and they do take months to clear. The solution is to pay attention to them and treat them daily, be really thorough and rigorous.
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The fungus is not hard to control at all if you use Nizoral Shampoo - dilute in hand hot water - lather up well working deep into the hair. Make sure that you also wash well beyond the current affected area as funus spores are shot outwards by the parent so increasing the size of the damaged skin each time.

Leave the Nizoral on to dry - don't rinse. Should be gone with the week - leaving just the scabs to work their way down the hair.
 
Op's horse doesn't have broken skin, so hibiscrub is fine. Also ditto not hosing. I'd very much avoid bandaging, apart from the fact you'd need to wash his legs nightly to apply them, the warmth provided is the ideal breeding ground if there is any infection still.
Poor op, we've all given very conflicting advice!
 
The_angel_littlelegs said:
Op's horse doesn't have broken skin, so hibiscrub is fine. Also ditto not hosing. I'd very much avoid bandaging, apart from the fact you'd need to wash his legs nightly to apply them, the warmth provided is the ideal breeding ground if there is any infection still.
Poor op, we've all given very conflicting advice!
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Well, at least we all agree on keeping it dry and killing off bacteria and fungus. However that is done!

Thing is, mud fever attacks weak compromised skin with varying severity.

Attack from all angles.

One thing I disagree with is hibiscrubbing. It really is too harsh and can prolong the infection as its antibacterial action is short lived but the chemicals irritate the skin further.
 
His diet consists of two feeds of basic pony nuts, safe and sound, linseed meal and turmeric. A few slices of hay overnight whether he's out or comes in for the odd night and our current grass is keeping him a good weight. He gets danilon if in overnight or when it's cold and the linseed and turmeric have kept him 99% sound this winter compared to last year. This morning he wasn't stiff coming out his stable so obviously bandaging is now not necessary (good cos i bleedin' hate doing it!)

The main part of our field isn't muddy, just waterlogged. His skin on the bald patches doesn't look sore and the scabs aren't pussy underneath etc. Just dried scabs and legs aren't swollen or tender.

I put him out this morning with a thick layer of sudocrem and baby oil covering his hinds and will buy some shampoo to get them clean. Where can i buy the nizaral ?(spelling..on phone cant look back!)
 
Nizoral shampoo is available from boots. Rub it into a lather, and leave to dry completely.

I think you need to get your horse onto a good vit n min supp. Dodson and horrel leisure vits n mins is a good one. You need something high in zinc and copper.
 
Tnavas said:
The fungus is not hard to control at all if you use Nizoral Shampoo - dilute in hand hot water - lather up well working deep into the hair. Make sure that you also wash well beyond the current affected area as funus spores are shot outwards by the parent so increasing the size of the damaged skin each time.

Leave the Nizoral on to dry - don't rinse. Should be gone with the week - leaving just the scabs to work their way down the hair.
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I did try Nizoral, used a couple of bottles, but it didn't touch it unfortunately.
 
I use diluted milton 2 wash my horses legs off. Just a weak dilution is fine, anti fungal, bacterial and viral. Works for me. But it can bleach ur clothes
 
tallyhohoho! said:
One thing I disagree with is hibiscrubbing. It really is too harsh and can prolong the infection as its antibacterial action is short lived but the chemicals irritate the skin further.
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Totally agree with you there Hibiscrub was never meant to be used for anything else other than sterilising a surgeons hands prior to surgery.

It is far to harsh chemically wise. UK vets have really been quite naughty prescribing it to clients to wash a horses sensitive skin.
 
Just as a contradiction to the no hosers :D. We are on very heavy clay soil, and my girls have their legs hosed every night. If I left mud on them hey would still have wet clay mud on their legs in the morning. By hosing them, yes they are for a short while wetter, but they then have chance overnight to air and dry properly rather than remaining wet all night.

I realise that not everyone has clay to deal with, but this would appear to keep mud fever at bay for my lot, I haven't had it on my girls for several years now.
 
Abbeygale said:
Just as a contradiction to the no hosers :D. We are on very heavy clay soil, and my girls have their legs hosed every night. If I left mud on them hey would still have wet clay mud on their legs in the morning. By hosing them, yes they are for a short while wetter, but they then have chance overnight to air and dry properly rather than remaining wet all night.

I realise that not everyone has clay to deal with, but this would appear to keep mud fever at bay for my lot, I haven't had it on my girls for several years now.
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Hosing when there isn't an infection is a different kettle of fish to when there IS an infection.

Do not confuse the two.
 
Update:

I tried the Nizoral shampoo and it made his legs hideously sore and swollen:eek: Our current progress is he has been having his legs thoroughly shampooed and rinsed once a week with tea tree shampoo just before he gets put in for the night so by morning he is thoroughly dry and fluffy again, as I have kept him on a deep shavings bed. As we are currently nowhere near having dry fields, he will inevitably be staying in until the sun surprises us with its presence. I have been using a mixture of zinc and castor oil and baby oil which is slapped onto his legs the morning after his thorough shampoo and for the rest of the week I haven't touched his legs. No hosing, no brushing, no touching or removing the scabs, just put in and the majority of the mud slips off and then dries. His legs are not hot and never swell and the danilon he gets in dinner is stopping him from stiffening up.

The bald patch that is on both hind legs, has already started to regrow hair, the skin is a healthy pink colour and there are no open sores or scabs but still alot of scabs that have hair attached. Luckily the hair isn't falling out quite so easily.

Question now is, should I use something like vaseline over the bald patches to give them a bit more protection as the baby oil and zinc mixture doesn't stick on for quite as long as a week and I don't want to be touching his legs more than necessary or something else? And my hunt for a supplement to give his system a boost has started but recommendations welcome:D

He's had his leg shampoo tonight so tomorrow I shall be putting on something to protect him:rolleyes:
 
I had thus trouble with nizarol - after using it his legs got worse and became swollen, so I ended up having to get vet out who gave him antibiotics and anti inflammatories :(. She said to use diluted hibiscrub every couple of days, spray stuff on I bought (it's clear but in a purple bottle) and sudocrem under clingfilm at night to take off scabs. Have to say I've tried everything including muddy marvel and nothing seems to work and the more I do, the worse I seem to make it, and make him unhappy

So....... I'm just going to leave it and see what happens (it can't get any worse sigh)
 
Russian horse and Sophstar - where you using anything else at the same time as using the Nizoral? This is the first time I've heard of any such reaction and have been using it for many years on many horses. So would like to know what to avoid using it with.

Despite the bad reaction has the Mudfever started to improve?

Sophstar - the scabs attached to the hairs and free of the skin you can get rid off by gently combing with a nit comb. They are dead scabs - the mudfever healed under the hair.
 
Mine sounds a bit like yours, Russianhorse. Leaving it really didn't help tbh. What did work, was getting a skin scrape, identifying a fungal issue and then I slapped clomatrizole on twice a day. I did wash with dilute hibiscrub a couple of times a week, then dry and then use cream. I figured if it as gentle enough for extremely sensitive parts it would do no harm on the legs. After a long time of nothing working, this regime sorted it.
 
Muddy buddy Kure cream, it's bloody fab, uses silver tech and it's so good I can't get it locally at all as everybody has caught on how good it is and all tack shops sold out. It's about £15 but worth every penny.Just put it on top and scabs fall off in a couple of days
 
Tnavas said:
Russian horse and Sophstar - where you using anything else at the same time as using the Nizoral? This is the first time I've heard of any such reaction and have been using it for many years on many horses. So would like to know what to avoid using it with.

Despite the bad reaction has the Mudfever started to improve?

Sophstar - the scabs attached to the hairs and free of the skin you can get rid off by gently combing with a nit comb. They are dead scabs - the mudfever healed under the hair.
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Nope just used the nizoral on its own, rinsed off all the mud and then shampooed on it. Legs were twice the size by the morning and very hot and tender.

Apart from the bald patches, I think *touch wood* his skin is looking better. It didn't look horrendous to start, just irritated but now looks alot healthier and there are no sore areas just healthy pink skin with no hair:rolleyes:. I'll take a pic of it on my phone tomorrow once its dried and attempt at posting it! I just find it baffling why he has it up the front of his hinds and no where near his heels *touch wood again!* I didn't know if slapping vaseline on his legs would make it worse because then the skin couldn't breathe but may have to on the bald bits to stop the mud reaching it. Roll on sunshine!
 
Have you tried neem oil. I've heard amazing things about it. You don't need to clean as it does that for you so no hosing. Just whack it on rub it in and leave it to do it thing. I've just ordered some to give it a go. Apparently it's use for mud fever cuts grazes sweet itch lots of things. Couldn't resist trialling it.
 
Tnsvas - no, I used nothing at the same time as it but had used diluted hibiscrub and sudocrem in the week beforehand

Thatsmygirl / siennamum I might try your suggestions and see how that goes - have to say I'm sick to death of mudfever
 
Sophstar it sounds as if the Nizoral did work even though your horse had an adverse reaction to it.

It's great to know he's on the mend.

Had you been using anything else just prior to using the Nizoral?

Neem Oil is quite an interesting oil - it is anti parasitic, used as an insecticide, contains steroids so will reduce swelling, good at repelling water and generally very useful stuff. HOWEVER be aware that it can be a problem if you are pregnant or trying to get pregnant - so use gloves when handling it.

I have an Indian friend who swears by the stuff - it's used extensively in India.
 
claribella said:
Have you tried neem oil. I've heard amazing things about it. You don't need to clean as it does that for you so no hosing. Just whack it on rub it in and leave it to do it thing. I've just ordered some to give it a go. Apparently it's use for mud fever cuts grazes sweet itch lots of things. Couldn't resist trialling it.
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Someone had suggested neem oil but didn't know what form to buy it in...just searched and found a neem shield cream and a salve. Where did you order yours from?
 
I would buy it straight so just straight neem oil with nothing added. Also neem leaf is great for lifting the immune system and I know some horses get mud fever if their immunity isn't up so could be worth trying the two. I got mine from bitlessandbarefoot.com. It's not the cheapest of things but like I say you can clear up the mud fever and then use for everything else too. There is a write up on the site about what she has used it on. With the neem leaf you add it to the feed and it's also really great wormer. Hope you get some success with it.
 
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