Catrofen and hip/elbow dysplasia

Mrs Jingle

Mrs Jingle

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Does anyone have any experience with a relatively young dog ( just turned 7 lab) on Catrofen for hip and elbow dysplasia, beyond operating and would not be attempted anyway due to all joints being affected.

My gorgeous choccy lab was diagnosed with a very poor prognosis a few months back and put on the maximum dosage of Rymadyl for her weight plus a new diet high in glucosamine and also glucosamine tablets added to her diet.. For a good while the change was remarkable within just a few days, no laying around moaning and groaning, really bouncy and happy.

Unfortunately this past month the improvement seems to have diminished despite the vet adding in gebapentin for a week to see how she went. slight improvement but nothing really hopeful.

Question is please - have you experience of a dog with similar issues and similar meds - is this the horrible end of the line we were warned could happen sooner rather than later or have you moved your dogs on to other meds that then worked, even for a short while ?

Clutching at straws I think and we are taking her to another trip to the vets next week but would like to go armed with any advice or experience you can give me please.
 
7 is not particularly young for a lab to have these sort of issues, it depends on the breeding and life style of the dog.
It may be worth discussing hydrotherapy for the dog with your vet.
The best things are to keep the weight of, keep exercise regular in time, distance and exertion, keep the dog as fit as the dog is able to happily be.
It can advance fast yes but some people have good success with the above as well as acupuncture and massage.
Good luck
 
Agree with Twiggy.
In my own breed that would be the age you would start to see HD/ED starting to manifest, it's usually diagnosed at 12-18 months when a lot of people routinely x-ray.
As above, try to keep her as lean as you can, look into hydro, gentle exercise to keep her mobile, no splatting about on shiny floor surfaces, no stairs/jumping on and off furniture/in and out of car etc.
 
I'm sorry to hear this. No experience of cartrofen but it's on my list to try when my lab's arthritis worsens.
Have you tried yumove advance 360? Its only available from the vet and keeps my dog absolutey sound, it's astounding stuff twice I've taken her off after about a week she starts to get stiff in the morning, straight back on them and the stiffness goes. I also keep her slim and lots of walks but no balls or toys thrown. Metacam has absolutely no effect on mine. there are some newer anti inflammatory drugs is got to be worth trying.
 
My Gsd was put on cartrophen for hip dysplasia when she was 6 and it dis help although as her condition worsened she needed injections more regularly.
She now has them occasionally as sadly she has also developed DM so can't actually feel much in her hips anymore.
 
She is from a puppy farming background twiggy2 so this was not entirely unexpected and her outlook was already guarded as a very young dog as we had issues within her first 18 months.

Her weight is excellent and she is and always has been on a carefully monitored exercise regime, just enough to give her pleasure and keep her weight down but not too much to put any further strain on her joints. We have talked about hydrotherapy but our nearest is over 100 miles away so just not possible unfortunately.

I will look into acupuncture as that isnt something that had occurred to me so far. Thank you for your reply.
 
wren23 I have her on nutraquin+ from the vets - I imagine it is similar but I will do some research and see if that might be a better alternative to try - thank you. I wonder if the advance 360 might be a better alternative to the Catrofen.
 
spiritedly injections have been suggested as something else to try if these meds stop working, which seem to be the case - how often and for how long do you think they helped? Was it injections into joints or just a general injection..she would probably need 6 if it into every affected joint so I cant think that would be very good for her mentally but better than the alternative I guess :(
 
CorvusCorax said:
Agree with Twiggy.
In my own breed that would be the age you would start to see HD/ED starting to manifest, it's usually diagnosed at 12-18 months when a lot of people routinely x-ray.
As above, try to keep her as lean as you can, look into hydro, gentle exercise to keep her mobile, no splatting about on shiny floor surfaces, no stairs/jumping on and off furniture/in and out of car etc.
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thank you - please see my other replies I had posted before reading yours. yes it was diagnosed initially at less than a year old and yes she has always been kept on the slim side of ideal and limited fun and games that might cause any strain or twisting on joints. Stairs out of bounds, always lifted into the jeep.
 
Our now 12 year old Lab was having Cartrophen Injections until May this year when he had to have his spleen removed. He cannot have Cartrophen now due to the increased possibility of an internal bleed. He had been on them for around 7 years with mixed results. His elbow issues were due to a trauma when he was 7 months old that prevented the joint from growing properly. We also tried Hylartil Injections direct into the elbow joint under sedation following an MRI Investigation at an orthopaedic specialist vets (Torrington Orthopaedics). The benefits were short lived in his case but might be worth your investigating. He also had hydrotherapy once a week for 6 years but he then began to simply float around the pool so we took advice from the hydrotherapist and removed him. Chronic issues seem to be more difficult to deal with than acute so trial and error seems to be the only way. We now use Gabapentin, Metacam, Pardale V, Flexadin Advanced, Turmeric and Flax Seed Oil plus we have a Photizo red light therapy device that we treat him with alternate days. We're very lucky that Jake is very tolerant to all pain meds so we can confidently try him on different combinations without upsetting his tummy. He has 6 monthly blood and urine tests to check kidney and liver function. I hope you find a solution ?
 
To add, Cartrophen Injections are usually given in the scruff of the neck. A course is 4 injections, one a week then a top up every 3 months if I remember correctly. Hylartil Injections are direct into the affected joint cavity. ?
 
Oh, we also tried physiotherapy but Jake was not happy with the close contact so when he still hadn't settled into it after 6 sessions we gave up.
 
Sparklyballs said:
spiritedly injections have been suggested as something else to try if these meds stop working, which seem to be the case - how often and for how long do you think they helped? Was it injections into joints or just a general injection..she would probably need 6 if it into every affected joint so I cant think that would be very good for her mentally but better than the alternative I guess :(
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The injections are into the scruff so can be done at home if your vet is agreeable. Initially she had one injection a week for a month then had them monthly going done to every two weeks when the pain seemed to be at its worst.

If it wasn't for the dm she probably wouldn't be here now as I didn't think it was fair when the injections weren't lasting. All in all she was on them just over a year.

She is also the result of a puppy farm and has quite a few health problems.
 
What about an oral NSAID? One of my GSDs had arthritis in his stifles and I got him human metacam and that helped. Can you get Adequan injections? A friend who is a veterinarian uses with her Great Danes are usually sound until the age of 10. You said hydrotherapy is 100 miles away but what about swimming? We have 2 places here with 2-3 pools each for dogs. My dogs swim in ponds a creeks year round. Also, can you get stem cell injections?
 
There are still lots of options left.
Medical as well as slightly more invasive.

I like cartrophen and have seen some great results....But it really does depend on the dog and it takes at least 4 weeks-one injection a week for 4, to know if its helping. I personally find it helps hips more then elbows.il always trial it before or with nsaid if possible for OA. Generally a low risk of side effects as well which is a plus.

4cyte I've had some good success with recently so I'm being slowly converted to it...And if it works you can use the horse version off label on dogs to bring costs down.

Gabapentin can help but I find it better in cats then dogs.
Tramadol is very hit and miss and only works in a combo-its fallen out of favour lately.
Pardale if it's still available was wonderful but in a young dog it's often not a longterm fix...similarly some yuoung healthy dogs can be trialled on paracetamol with extreme caution..or straight codeine but the constipation can be grim.
There's a couple of other less common drugs like galliprant etc out there as well.

There's also several other nsaids to trial. Personally I much prefer meloxicam(metacam and loads of others brands out etc) or Previcox over rimadyl.

Acupuncture is also incredibly helpful for some and almost every old creaky dog can benefit from a decent physio(we have a wonderful one to work with who's somewhat of a miracle worker)

Invasive wise- joint injections are very popular in humans for pain control and provide very good pain control. You'll likely need a big hospital or find a specialist to do them in a dog however as they aren't very common in the canine world yet.
Surgeries etc sound like something you would prefer to avoid so I won't go into them.
 
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Thank you Spiritedly that is some relief to know it wouldn't be into her joints adn I would not have any problem doing a scruff injection myself if vet thought it a route worth trying.

Thank you GSD woman yes we do have her favourite spot on our own land where she can swim in a small pool - unfortunately though it also involves her leaping of a 10 foot high ledge into the water and then scrambling out up steep banks so that had to be banned sadly.

Thank you Aru she cannot have meloxicam she has been on it in the past and unfortunately within 24 hours is incontinent - that would have been our vet's first choice too. she has been on the Catrophen OA now since early august and it was fantastic initially but not working so well now. I shall check out 4cyte and learn more about it.

If all else fails and our vet does think joint injections might help I think we could probably get them down at UCD in Dublin - but I am wondering if they would think it Ok to inject so many joints - as our own vets think it would be unethical to even attempt to operate on any of her joints given how difficult it would be for her recovery wise. but I am guessing injections into joints isn't of course invasive like surgery would be.

thanks so much all of you for your words of wisdom, you have given me lots to research and I can then go armed with some knowledge when she sees the vet again next week.
 
I have been in your position. We worked our way through various prescribed drugs and therapies including buying a class 3b veterinary laser which I used daily at home, with the approval and guidance of my vet. The laser relaxed him and he enjoyed it but I think in his case the pain management aspect was negligible.

I believe Aru is in Australia - a bit too far to travel for an appointment, which is a pity.

In the UK this is the vet to see if you can - Matt Gurney, European Veterinary Specialist and an expert in pain management. He works at Anderson Moores, Nr Winchester.

Your vet should be able to refer you. If it is not possible for you to go to see him they offer a service where your vet can contact the practice for advice for your dog.

You might find this interesting:

https://caninearthritis.co.uk/cam-c...ultiple-medications-for-arthritis-management/

Unfortunately I think these webinars will only be available to vets

https://www.thewebinarvet.com/speaker/matthew-gurney
 
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Sparklyballs said:
Thank you Spiritedly that is some relief to know it wouldn't be into her joints adn I would not have any problem doing a scruff injection myself if vet thought it a route worth trying.

Thank you GSD woman yes we do have her favourite spot on our own land where she can swim in a small pool - unfortunately though it also involves her leaping of a 10 foot high ledge into the water and then scrambling out up steep banks so that had to be banned sadly.

Thank you Aru she cannot have meloxicam she has been on it in the past and unfortunately within 24 hours is incontinent - that would have been our vet's first choice too. she has been on the Catrophen OA now since early august and it was fantastic initially but not working so well now. I shall check out 4cyte and learn more about it.

If all else fails and our vet does think joint injections might help I think we could probably get them down at UCD in Dublin - but I am wondering if they would think it Ok to inject so many joints - as our own vets think it would be unethical to even attempt to operate on any of her joints given how difficult it would be for her recovery wise. but I am guessing injections into joints isn't of course invasive like surgery would be.

thanks so much all of you for your words of wisdom, you have given me lots to research and I can then go armed with some knowledge when she sees the vet again next week.
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UCD will do joint injections and may suggest PRP - mine had both done there although it was after a "discussion" on him being a working dog and expectations of return to work.
 
Sparklyballs said:
did yours have the joint injections or the PRP Druid? what sort of results did you get?
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Both - we one elbow with PRP and the other with steroids and hyaluronic acid. Subsequently I've reinjected both elbows once myself with steroids/HA (I'm a vet!). Dogs was 18 months at initial presentation with ED and is now 6yo and still working. He has Cartrophen injections monthly and I repeat the loading course once every 6 months. He also has Yumove daily and I keep him as lean as I dare without people making comments - he's 13.5-14kg and shows 2-3 ribs but is all muscle. He swims a lot for fitness also.
 
Phew! glad to see you added in there that you are a vet! :D Yes Coco is kept as lean as we dare without finding ourselves being accused of cruelty! yes ours is also very well muscled - always has been and vet remarked that would be a great help to her and to continue to exercise as best and sensibly as we could to keep her muscle tone - which we do.
I have ordered the 4cyte today as the nutraquin+ does not have green lipped mussels in it and I have heard great results with horses. Thank you for your reply I will at least know roughly what my vet is talking about if she suggests PRP or steroid and hyaluronic acid injections.
 
Hi Mrs J. I hope you don't mind me resurrecting this thread ?. I wondered how your lab had reacted to the 4cyte Aru had recommended? ?. Do you feel able to provide an update? Thank you. I commented on the thread a few times about my Lab, Jake who has elbow issues so I'd be interested in your experiences of something we are yet to try with him. ❤️
 
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