caverchon?

[Slightlyconfused]

Really pleased I'm not a lone voice about this PP, thank you

These are the ages my cavillers have died

13 heart problems

14 kidney failed

9 (day before his 10th birthday) tumour in sinus

11 lymphoma

And we still have the 11 year olds sister who is 14 no heart problems, just had two teeth out and has lost her top front teeth, had arthritis in her hips but does not stop her from enjoying life

Make sure all parents are tested what ever you get

 

[Clodagh]

Well I'm happy you're happy buying puppies. We'll never agree I'm afraid so I'll bow out now.
Perhaps if you had to deal with puppies living in stressful kennel situations because they've been dumped, or had to call round rescue after rescue begging for spaces they just don't have, or worse be there at the end with a dog that no one wants you'd begin to understand why buying puppies doesn't sit right with me.
My point is its too easy to pretend the thousands of dogs,puppies included, needing homes don't exist and go and buy a designer or pedigree puppy.

So no puppies should be bred? Except the ones by rubbish breeders who don't care? Or none at all? If none at all dogs will die out as a species, not going to happen I know but you really are talking rubbish. We have both rehomes and dogs bought as pups, rescues do not have the ideal dog for every situation.

 

[Clodagh]

And another thing - the rescues should put down the old, lame and dangerous dogs then they would have space for rehomeable ones. 'Never put a healthy dog down' utter *******s.

 

[Alec Swan]

Basically what we've learned from this thread is that the OP posted it not because she really wanted honest opinions, but just wanted someone to say "ooooh, a puppy - oh yes they're fab please post pictures when you get it". But what she got was "errr, here's what you should look out for" and that was all completely ignored.

And of course it got the "rescue is the only way" brigade in force too.

And I wondered why I stopped coming on to forums.

Correct at every point, except that leaving a forum because you 'go against the flow', is simply giving in. Just because you may not be in agreement with popular, and often misled thoughts, is no reason to 'walk'. Have the courage of your convictions, and make your points. Your opinions are as valid as those of any others, including the OP.

So there!

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

And another thing - the rescues should put down the old, lame and dangerous dogs then they would have space for rehomeable ones. 'Never put a healthy dog down' utter *******s.

Well said. Why do so many on here seem to be so fearful of speaking their minds?

Alec.

 

[WelshD]

I agree with everything but the last paragraph, if you could see some of the imbeciles that try to adopt a dog then you can see why some rescues are so fussy. Before I started fostering I too thought rescues were overly fussy, I agree there are the odd few who have unrealistic expectations and rules, people have to work and not all people that apply are retired and living on a small holding. Most rescues are happy for the dogs to be left on their own in a home for 4 hours before getting let out or taking for a walk. To expect a dog to go 8/9 hours during the day without a wee break is simply not fair and people will argue well they go all night without a wee break so why not during the day, my answer is well so do I but I go to the loo a few times during the day how about you. Then there is fencing, Ive done a few homechecks and some peoples ideas of fencing is not mine, big holes wide enough for an elephant to get through, no garden gates etc. Then the children, seeing a child drag the family cat around does not instil confidence in me when the parents dont seem to notice or choose to ignore.

Rescues do need to rehome to make room for the very next dog and most of them apply common sense rules to protect the dog,you and your children, if some rescues are very strict try another, breed rescues always seem to apply common sense and will work with you for the good of the dog and you. As with all things shop around.

Yes but there are a lot of homes where that isn't a problem yet still refused. Rescues need to understand that there is a middle ground. One place refused us for being within so many metres of an A road, that was it line drawn no further discussion or questions regarding fencing etc, We live half a mile from the A road in a peaceful spot and have a smallholding behind our house where our terrier potters happily with us for hours

 

[Dobiegirl]

Yes but there are a lot of homes where that isn't a problem yet still refused. Rescues need to understand that there is a middle ground. One place refused us for being within so many metres of an A road, that was it line drawn no further discussion or questions regarding fencing etc, We live half a mile from the A road in a peaceful spot and have a smallholding behind our house where our terrier potters happily with us for hours

How do you know there are a lot of homes where there isnt a problem refused except for yourself which I agree isa ridiculous reason for failing a homecheck, Im sure the people who Ive turned down have told family and friends of the rescues unrealistic expectations, people lie Im afraid and when it involves rescue I see it a lot from potential adopters and people who hand dogs in to be rehomed.

From Clodagh And another thing - the rescues should put down the old, lame and dangerous dogs then they would have space for rehomeable ones. 'Never put a healthy dog down' utter *******s.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?688753-caverchon/page7#zrmpRkSOM0JCwjlr.99

A lot of the old,lame and especially dangerous dogs do not make it to rescue because of common sense and so the dogs are put down, not all rescues do this of course but then not all rescues are the same just as we are not all the same.

 

[WelshD]

How do you know there are a lot of homes where there isnt a problem refused except for yourself .

but to be fair I don't live in a bubble. I have had personal experience of several rescues as have friends and family and you often see online silly reasons for not being able to rescue, its not like many people would be shocked hearing that

Not everyone is an imbecile just a victim of one small disadvantage which writes them off as a suitable home. rescues have to ask themselves if a home with minor drawbacks is better than months spent in a kennel or even dying in kennels.

 

[burtie]

Do look at Caveliers, if you go for good breeding you should be fine, I acquired 2 mature ones at age 8 and 11 and they lived to 14 and 15 with few health problems.

 

[RunToEarth]

My point is its too easy to pretend the thousands of dogs,puppies included, needing homes don't exist and go and buy a designer or pedigree puppy.

I'm not pretending there aren't, there are lots of unbroken, unwanted coloured horses tethered to the banks of the Brant but I would still be buying a hunter rather than trying to fix another person's problem.

Do you really think that me buying a pedigree puppy is the reason that rescue kennels are completely over run, because I just couldn't agree with you on that.

 

[PucciNPoni]

Have to agree, the OP went from asking for thoughts to having done all the research and reserving a puppy just a couple of days later

FWIW OP Yes I do think £600 is an awful lot for a crossbreed

Although I can see the thinking behind the suggestion that there should be some sort of charge per bitch per year I would have to say that those who breed litter after litter, don't health test parents, don't get puppies checked or first injections done, don't send a puppy off with basic insurance/dog food pack etc are the most likely to be able to afford £500 but quite probably the least likely to pay it. The reputable breeders doing things by the book with limits on litters etc and who make smaller profit margins per litter (some would argue no profit) would be the most likely to pay it

As for rescuing, perhaps some centres need to stop demanding the perfect home and understand that a loving home may not always be 100% in line with their ideals. We have been refused so many times in the past we now just buy our animals

Amen to all of that.

Dobiegirl - I understand what you're saying about rescue. It's funny because one particular rescue fosterer told me that I would never be a suitable home for their dogs because I work and despite the fact that my dogs have company, there are spells where the dogs are left - not good enough for them. And yet, my first poodle came from a woman who runs a rescue (although this was before her days as a rescue) and she has said numerous times that she would have no hesitation giving me more if I wanted more dogs. She has seen the standard of care I provide to my pets. But that's the difference - some rescues write you off before they even MEET you. That's the issue *I* personally have with some of the bigger name rescues. I get it why they have rules. But sometimes the rules just don't work in real life with people who are experienced and capable.

 

[PucciNPoni]

Correct at every point, except that leaving a forum because you 'go against the flow', is simply giving in. Just because you may not be in agreement with popular, and often misled thoughts, is no reason to 'walk'. Have the courage of your convictions, and make your points. Your opinions are as valid as those of any others, including the OP.

So there!

Alec.

LOL, well I sometimes just lurk and cherry pick the threads I think I might have something useful to say. I guess I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me or anyone else all the time - but FGS, sometimes when everyone is saying the same thing and the person still doesn't want to know it is clear that they don't really want an opinion after all. I have a hard time when people don't mean what they say. Or say what they mean.

 

[CAYLA]

Great debate with fab points. As already mentioned and a popular opinion is not the actual buying of a X breed. It's the money exchanged for said mongrel and the encouraging and lining the pockets of those breeding these mongrels irresponsibly.

I don't agree either that whilst dogs are in rescue nobody should buy puppies. It's not the fault (hopefully) of the person wanting a puppy that rescues are full from the discards of dumb humans. However lining pockets of unethical breeders imo is the issue.

There are no HEALTH tests carried out and I would prefer the purchaser to just admit ignorance and not tell fibs when they use the whole "oh yes they are definitely health tested" because quite frankly in most cases the buying of the designer mongrels who has in majority of cases not researched the breeds mixed up in the cross so there for have no clue what health tests would even be involved lol.

Not all rescues are hideous with unrealistic conditions and not all dogs are damaged from rescue (I have re homed rescue dogs to HHO'ers) and without being a smart arse please step forward and tell me I gave you a badly behaved dog with issues or health problems ???

A few points though (just because you in particular ( not aimed at anyone in particular) think you where the perfect home for a rescue) does not mean you actually are/ and funnily enough ( those who commonly avoid rescue because they don't want damaged goods are commonly those who said just that the year before handing their damaged once freshly bought puppy into rescue

Not all rescues are full of bullies and lurchers. This year as a rescue we have re homed more so called designer X breeds than any other breeds Inc (all under a year).I will use the silly names (cringe) jackawawa, Poochon X lots . Labradoodle. Poodlington. Jestie X lots. Shih tie. And today I collected a puppy sprollie. All re homes as X breeds not their giddy made up names all re homed after neuter, Vaccination and microchip. All well mannered, well socialised dogs. Lol. Don't ask me what they are now I am still not saying you should be Ashamed you never went to rescue as that would be wrong. All I say is don't over pay and line the pockets of unethical breeders. We need good breeders. So please pay their prices and get a responsibly bred health tested puppies. And don't fib that tests have been done and don't tell people these designers are healthier lol. ( not aimed at OP) that's aimed as the back street breeders who preach that and those who support them and preach it.

Good luck and enjoy your puppy. Other people have no doubt picked up some fab advice when they purchase their next puppy.

Oh and rescue dogs can make fab working dogs. Why? Because we can re home a dog bought and denied it's right to do its job and thrive and being driven insane with a incapable owner in to a home where they are given the opportunity to thrive from their drive. Including. Police, Prison and for hunting. Yes we have re homed dogs for hunting to the local estates be it terriers or spaniels/ labradors.

 

[PucciNPoni]

Cayla, fab post.

 

[Alec Swan]

CAYLA, whilst you and I will never agree on every canine point, ^^^^ is word perfect!

Alec.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Amen to all of that.

Dobiegirl - I understand what you're saying about rescue. It's funny because one particular rescue fosterer told me that I would never be a suitable home for their dogs because I work and despite the fact that my dogs have company, there are spells where the dogs are left - not good enough for them. And yet, my first poodle came from a woman who runs a rescue (although this was before her days as a rescue) and she has said numerous times that she would have no hesitation giving me more if I wanted more dogs. She has seen the standard of care I provide to my pets. But that's the difference - some rescues write you off before they even MEET you. That's the issue *I* personally have with some of the bigger name rescues. I get it why they have rules. But sometimes the rules just don't work in real life with people who are experienced and capable.

That is why I said to shop around, not all rescues are the same, when you think of the thousands of rescue dogs rehomed every year successfully to people that do work, the penny is beginning to drop with the larger rescues and they have to be more flexible.

As for the OP why bother coming on and asking advice when your mind is already made up, Im a realistic person if people want to buy a puppy of whatever breed or xbreed then I would always advise them to make sure the parents are health tested. S4Sugar explained it far better than me and is way more experienced,

It would be nice iif more people adopted but I would never ram my feelings down people throats, rescues seem to get a rough deal on here with some people regarding them as unhealthy with massive behavioural problems. It depends where you adopt them from as one rescue I know couldnt give a dam about homechecks so WelshD you, your friends and family would have no problem adopting from them but you may well have had a sick puppy or dog on your hands which will not be chipped,vaxed or neutered or spayed.

PP dont leave, I always seem to go against the flow but diversity is a good thing, as long as we can agree to disagree and it doesnt get personal or abusive I say the more members the better. We have lost quite a few members in the past for various reasons but hopefully we are all adult and learn to get along.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Haha Cayla, you have covered everything , well done an excellent post and praise from Alec as well.

 

[PucciNPoni]

That is why I said to shop around, not all rescues are the same, when you think of the thousands of rescue dogs rehomed every year successfully to people that do work, the penny is beginning to drop with the larger rescues and they have to be more flexible.

As for the OP why bother coming on and asking advice when your mind is already made up, Im a realistic person if people want to buy a puppy of whatever breed or xbreed then I would always advise them to make sure the parents are health tested. S4Sugar explained it far better than me and is way more experienced,

It would be nice iif more people adopted but I would never ram my feelings down people throats, rescues seem to get a rough deal on here with some people regarding them as unhealthy with massive behavioural problems. It depends where you adopt them from as one rescue I know couldnt give a dam about homechecks so WelshD you, your friends and family would have no problem adopting from them but you may well have had a sick puppy or dog on your hands which will not be chipped,vaxed or neutered or spayed.

PP dont leave, I always seem to go against the flow but diversity is a good thing, as long as we can agree to disagree and it doesnt get personal or abusive I say the more members the better. We have lost quite a few members in the past for various reasons but hopefully we are all adult and learn to get along.

I sometimes feel like a bit of a contradiction - I may one day take a litter from a bitch to keep her line going, never ever for profit. And yet I help with rescue in the breed. I love the breed and that's why I do it. I believe that without good breeding that good dogs will decline - I definitely don't want that. But there are homes out there for the rescues. I would have a houseful of poodles if I could. But I promise that I will never breed any bitch for getting an expensive crossbreed litter with a cute name. However if I did, it would be for purpose and be tested for any and all known genetic issues - just as I would if I were breeding a purebred litter.

DOn't worry, I'm not going anywhere any time soon. I'm just sounding off

 

[Alec Swan]

Just a question, and because I may benefit from the answerp); If one breed of dog which has a propensity to an inherited ailment, is cross bred with another breed of dog, which DOESN'T have the SAME heritable problems, though could possibly have it's own set of impending disasters, would the offspring be at the same level of risk, as their parents?

Genuine question.

Alec.

 

[{97702}]

Great debate with fab points. As already mentioned and a popular opinion is not the actual buying of a X breed. It's the money exchanged for said mongrel and the encouraging and lining the pockets of those breeding these mongrels irresponsibly.

Not all rescues are hideous with unrealistic conditions and not all dogs are damaged from rescue (I have re homed rescue dogs to HHO'ers) and without being a smart arse please step forward and tell me I gave you a badly behaved dog with issues or health problems ???

Oh and rescue dogs can make fab working dogs. Why? Because we can re home a dog bought and denied it's right to do its job and thrive and being driven insane with a incapable owner in to a home where they are given the opportunity to thrive from their drive. Including. Police, Prison and for hunting. Yes we have re homed dogs for hunting to the local estates be it terriers or spaniels/ labradors.

Dutifully stepping forward without being a smart arse - Cayla rehomed Amy (whippet x greyhound) to me 5 years ago on 7th Feb, and I can say hand on heart that she is the best rescue I have ever had or ever will have - obedient, loving, friendly, absolutely no issues at all and an excellent squirrel hunter

ETA - oh and no health issues, the only time she has needed anything other than her annual booster was when she staked herself running through the woods, and when she got bitten by one of my other dogs!

 

[hihosilver]

Thanks for all your comments, sometimes in life you have to take chances. I will post photos of her when she comes home to me. I don't have any doubts. I saw Mum and Dad of the puppy and am happy with every thing so now have the joy of going shopping with my daughter this weekend to get puppy essentials and check out insurance companies.

 

[gunnergundog]

sometimes in life you have to take chances. I don't have any doubts. I saw Mum and Dad of the puppy and am happy with every thing so now have the joy of going shopping with my daughter this weekend to get puppy essentials and check out insurance companies.

Nothing in life is risk free, so yes, you have to take chances BUT you can also minimise risks by buying from HEALTH TESTED parents. A visual inspection (even by a vet) is NO guarantee of the health of a dog, so by seeing both parents I do not know how you can say you are happy.

IF as you say both parents have been health TESTED, then ensure you see their certificates when you go to collect the pup and if not WALK AWAY.

Alternatively, I hope you have a minimum of 10K put away ready to spend on the vet fees for the various ailments that this pup MAY inherit during the course of its life. Yes, you may get insurance, but a LIFETIME insurance policy can be very expensive....I know of several dog owners paying over £100 month for 11 year old dogs. Policies can start off cheap, but certainly all get hiked when the dog reaches the age of eight.

 

[hihosilver]

Nothing in life is risk free, so yes, you have to take chances BUT you can also minimise risks by buying from HEALTH TESTED parents. A visual inspection (even by a vet) is NO guarantee of the health of a dog, so by seeing both parents I do not know how you can say you are happy.

IF as you say both parents have been health TESTED, then ensure you see their certificates when you go to collect the pup and if not WALK AWAY.

Alternatively, I hope you have a minimum of 10K put away ready to spend on the vet fees for the various ailments that this pup MAY inherit during the course of its life. Yes, you may get insurance, but a LIFETIME insurance policy can be very expensive....I know of several dog owners paying over £100 month for 11 year old dogs. Policies can start off cheap, but certainly all get hiked when the dog reaches the age of eight.

Both parents are health tested and yes I can afford the vets bills and insurance. Any dog can get sick just like a horse. I am not walking away. I cant wait to get her home.

 

[gunnergundog]

Both parents are health tested and yes I can afford the vets bills and insurance. Any dog can get sick just like a horse. I am not walking away. I cant wait to get her home.

In which case, ENJOY! Hope she brings you much happiness.

The 'walk away' comment was just because I know of many people who have been spun a yarn about dogs being KC registered, health tested, from FTAW parents etc etc and that the certificates were going to be shown when the pup was collected, but...................they never were. There was always an excuse! Certificates, in the case of KC reg, were going to be forwarded, but.............never were.

There are a lot of dishonest people out there ready to make a fast buck! So, please forgive those of us here, who are honestly trying to look after your best interests and prevent you making the mistakes that we have seen others make in the past.

Nothing would make me (and I am sure others) happier than see you posting pics of your pup and regular updates in the years to come.

Good luck!

 

[hihosilver]

Thanks I will post when I get her and keep you all informed. There has been good advice given on here and she will have the best home ever x

 

[Alec Swan]

In which case, ENJOY! Hope she brings you much happiness.

……..

Good luck!

And another here.

Thanks I will post when I get her and keep you all informed. There has been good advice given on here and she will have the best home ever x

If your planned for puppy is a failure, then there will be a stream of "Told you so's"! If it's a success, then it will be "Down to luck"!

If you carry your non-confrontational approach on here, through to your new acquisition, then I reckon that you'll be fine, all of you!!

Considering our relationships with our dogs, I'd say that you're off to a flying start.

Pics wouldn't be out of place!

Alec.

 

[Colouredwelsh]

Both parents are health tested and yes I can afford the vets bills and insurance. Any dog can get sick just like a horse. I am not walking away. I cant wait to get her home.

While I haven't agreed with your choice of pooch, it is just that, your choice!, I will never agree with cross breeding designer dogs.

What I was going to say was if you can afford the vets fees anyway then save your insurance premium in a separate bank account and use it if the need arises. Oh and your puppy SHOULD come with insurance for 4 weeks at least. Good luck

 

[Luci07]

Why do rescues get given such a hard time? They are mainly staffed by volunteers, who have a family, life and FT job yet people seem to expect an awful lot for nothing. I still support Stafford Welfare who have given me 4 wonderful (and fully assessed) dogs. While I understand people want dogs for certain purposes (working, showing) I will never understand the obsession with crossing pure breeds. The original breeder who "created" the labradoodle took an awfully long time to get it right and breed a certain dog type he wanted. Sadly, other people jump on the bandwagon and you don't know what traits your dog will inherit. I have had it with seeing the sad output of greedy breeders who don't care about what they breed or who has the heartache of their dogs. Personally, I would want to see all breeders licensed. End of. You see, I do see the streams of unwanted dogs dumped. I disagree very strongly that rescue = badly behaved or traumatised dog. None of mine were, they just ended up being surplus to the original owners requirements. The likes of Battersea will not rehome a severely troubled animal. If I wanted a specific breed I would go to the breed rescue. My brother recently rehomed a JRT. His one issue is....dog only understood chinese and had to have a crash course in relearning his commands.

So I truly hope your puppy is all you wish for, but also, please understand there are a lot of posters here who see the other side of rescue and have our hearts broken regularly when there just isn't "any more room at the inn" and a healthy young dog, who has done nothing wrong in its (very) short life is destroyed.