CCI* qualification.... help please

jess_asterix

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
4,313
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Right I must be stupid as I can't seem to understand the BE website, how do you qualify for CCI1* ??

Also do you think it is a realistic aim for the end of the season having done
3 BE100 DC last year
And our plan for this season is
Somerford 100
Stafford 100
Eland Lodge 100
Badminton Grassroots 90
Mount Ballan - Novice

And that is as far as I have got!

Any help would be great :) J x
 

ajf

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 November 2007
Messages
3,164
Location
Devon
Visit site
Hey guys,

I know the FEI have changed the Q's so unsure whether everything is still being ironed out?

I know you needed at least 4 qualifying rounds at Novice (ie dress under 50, less than 20/24? SJ and clear XC (under quite a lot of TPs) and then I think a CIC* or an Intermediate.

HOWEVER this is of the top of my head and it was several years since I did CCI*, but hopefully this will give you a rough-ish guide.

There are lots on here which can give you the proper stats (probably at home in the BE rulebook from last year actually).

I personally wouldn't even attempt a CCI* unless you were very confident at Novice as it is bigger and more technical than Novice and costs more to enter so you want to finish!!!

Good luck at Badminton :)
 

SillySausage

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 March 2008
Messages
2,150
Location
Warwickshire
Visit site
Not sure as to the rules, sorry.

However, I have recently worked for a 4* rider, who had a 3* rider and a 1* JRN rider based with them and I know none of them have gone 1* on a horse without being established at Novice and with several Intermediates under the belts first.

Hope that will have been of some help to you, if not then ignore me!
 

Darremi

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2012
Messages
650
Location
Wonderland
Visit site
Just looked at the new FEI rules and they make absolutely NO sense to me!! Last year the minimum for a CIC* was 2 x Novice QR and for CCI* was 5/6 x Novice QR.

I am hoping to qualify for CCI** with a horse that has not competed at that level before and my understanding is that I must do 2 x CIC**. I that correct?
 

TableDancer

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2008
Messages
4,660
Location
Monmouthshire
Visit site
Just looked at the new FEI rules and they make absolutely NO sense to me!! Last year the minimum for a CIC* was 2 x Novice QR and for CCI* was 5/6 x Novice QR.

I am hoping to qualify for CCI** with a horse that has not competed at that level before and my understanding is that I must do 2 x CIC**. I that correct?

For CCI** it is either one CCI* plus one CIC** or two CIC**s.

OP you are right, the MERs for one stars aren't set out anywhere that I can see yet, probably an oversight, but it is BE which decides them. My understanding (although I may be wrong) is that they are not changing for 2013, so it will be EITHER 6 x Novices clear XC and less than 16 pens SJ OR 4 x Novices as above, plus either an Intermediate clear XC or a CIC* ditto (can't remember SK stipulations for these but probably the same as the novices).

My personal view is that, given your starting plan, you would probably be pushing it quite hard to aim for a CCI* next season, given your horse is also inexperienced (I think? Or am I wrong?) Getting 6 novices in after Mount Ballan will be quite a work rate, if you throw in a few cancellations and the odd silly runout, plus the fact you need to be qualified by I think it is 21 days before the event starts for a CCI* and it looks even tighter. Add to that the last CCI* is Aldon which is pretty stiff in comparison to say Weston or Hartpury so not necessarily a good one to aim for.

Remember that they have re-named Qualification Requirements as Minimum Eligibility Requirements for good reason: to try to encourage us to remember that just because we are qualified for a certain level doesn't mean we are ready to try it :eek: I would be inclined to aim to get Herbie really established at Novice, and get one or two CIC*s under your belt (Somerford, Gatcombe?) so you can come out all guns blazing in 2014 and aim for early intermediates and a CCI* then.

He is so smart, he is worth taking your time with :)
 

Darremi

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2012
Messages
650
Location
Wonderland
Visit site
Thank you tabledancer. To be honest this change to the rules has really thrown off my entire season plan as living in Scotland I had planned to qualify for CCI** at the CIC** Hopetoun and then complete Blair CCI**. With Scone CIC** cancelled now I have to go way down south to try and fit two in before August as well my final university exams. Probably not going to happen!!
 

Lolo

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 August 2008
Messages
10,267
Visit site
Correct!! Guess this rule is for people who have already done their 5 novices on other horses...

This is like a maze of things I'll never know! If you hold the necessary QR, does the horse have to hold them too? And do you have to hold them as a partnership?
 

ajf

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 November 2007
Messages
3,164
Location
Devon
Visit site
This is like a maze of things I'll never know! If you hold the necessary QR, does the horse have to hold them too? And do you have to hold them as a partnership?

Nope horse and rider are somewhat separate. The rider generally needs more Q than the horse

Nope ignore me! As your both new it will be as a combination, only when u ride lots at top level now can u have a 'catch ride' now. :)
 
Last edited:

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
The new FEI rules do apply from 2013, in addition to FEI requirements BE have to set national requirements. They have not announced the new requirements yet, as far as I am aware, but have said that they will do so asap.
The FEI MER's have to be attained as a combination, even if rider and horse are separately qualified.
 

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
This is what Gemma Harris posted on BE forum on 21.12.12. I am fairly sure that the NF requirements have not yet been published:


Hi

Thank you for your post, National Federations are encouraged to set stronger and additional criteria to the FEI MER's for horses and athletes, the GBR National Federation requirements will be published in the early part of the New Year as the FEI rules were only finalised at the end of last week

Best wishes

Gemma
 

Gamebird

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2007
Messages
8,317
Visit site
If you've competed at FEI before you'll be on their list of who's qualified to do what. I'm qualified to do exactly the same in 2013 as in 2012 so I doubt much has changed.

OP - TD speaks sense (you probably knew that ;)). I'd want a complete season (or two half seasons) at Nov for a CCI*. I did one on a horse who had done 2 seasons at Nov, an Int (barring the last two XC fences), a CIC* and a couple of INs. We were still not sufficiently prepared. CIC*s are fun so aim for a couple of those in the Autumn and go walk a couple of CCI*s if you get the chance. Don't forget that you'll have to jump a very big (looks that way to me anyway ;)) SJ track on the last day on a less-than-fresh horse too.
 

TableDancer

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2008
Messages
4,660
Location
Monmouthshire
Visit site
This is like a maze of things I'll never know! If you hold the necessary QR, does the horse have to hold them too? And do you have to hold them as a partnership?

Haha, yes both horse and rider need to be qualified. A lot of the time you can do it separately, but you have to be careful as in certain instances qualifications have to be together - see rules for more details. Then just to make things more interesting, these new rules about level A,B,C,D riders based on how many MERs they have at a certain level in the last eight years, on any horse, mean that horses ridden by certain riders don't need to be as qualified for a certain level as those ridden by less experienced riders. It kinda makes sense in logcal terms, but it is fiendishly difficult to explain how it works, and I can't help thinking that the FEi could have drafted it in a clearer way!
 

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
I'm not sure that the requirements for this year will be the same as last!
My daughter was last year qualified to go 2* on any horse that was also qualified, this year she will have to achieve the FEI MER as a combination with the horse.
Until BE publish their requirements for 2013 there is no way of knowing what further quals will be required.
 

TableDancer

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2008
Messages
4,660
Location
Monmouthshire
Visit site
I'm not sure that the requirements for this year will be the same as last!
My daughter was last year qualified to go 2* on any horse that was also qualified, this year she will have to achieve the FEI MER as a combination with the horse.
Until BE publish their requirements for 2013 there is no way of knowing what further quals will be required.

Sorry, I just meant for 1*. My understanding is that there is to be no radical change at that level, but they could change their minds again!
 

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
I think my last post is as clear as mud!
To clarify, last year horse and rider could qualify separately, this year they have to do it as a combination.
As TD says it is difficult to explain!
 

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
I do wonder if BE are going raise requirements in view of FEI's encouragement to set additional and stronger criteria!
 

jess_asterix

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
4,313
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Hey guys,

I know the FEI have changed the Q's so unsure whether everything is still being ironed out?

I know you needed at least 4 qualifying rounds at Novice (ie dress under 50, less than 20/24? SJ and clear XC (under quite a lot of TPs) and then I think a CIC* or an Intermediate.

HOWEVER this is of the top of my head and it was several years since I did CCI*, but hopefully this will give you a rough-ish guide.

There are lots on here which can give you the proper stats (probably at home in the BE rulebook from last year actually).

I personally wouldn't even attempt a CCI* unless you were very confident at Novice as it is bigger and more technical than Novice and costs more to enter so you want to finish!!!

Good luck at Badminton :)

Thank you, I've never done a Novice so definitely not confident!

Not sure as to the rules, sorry.

However, I have recently worked for a 4* rider, who had a 3* rider and a 1* JRN rider based with them and I know none of them have gone 1* on a horse without being established at Novice and with several Intermediates under the belts first.

Hope that will have been of some help to you, if not then ignore me!

This seems to be an recurring theme, I think it will be a 2014 aim now. Thanks. x

I recommend this

http://eventridersassociation.org.uk/index.php/fei-mer-matrix-calculator/

It is foolproof!

Basically you will need:

4 x Novice (less than 16 SJ & clear xc) + 1 x Intermediate.

4 x Novice + 1 x CIC1* or Novice 2DE.

6 x Novice

Thank you xx

For CCI** it is either one CCI* plus one CIC** or two CIC**s.

OP you are right, the MERs for one stars aren't set out anywhere that I can see yet, probably an oversight, but it is BE which decides them. My understanding (although I may be wrong) is that they are not changing for 2013, so it will be EITHER 6 x Novices clear XC and less than 16 pens SJ OR 4 x Novices as above, plus either an Intermediate clear XC or a CIC* ditto (can't remember SK stipulations for these but probably the same as the novices).

My personal view is that, given your starting plan, you would probably be pushing it quite hard to aim for a CCI* next season, given your horse is also inexperienced (I think? Or am I wrong?) Getting 6 novices in after Mount Ballan will be quite a work rate, if you throw in a few cancellations and the odd silly runout, plus the fact you need to be qualified by I think it is 21 days before the event starts for a CCI* and it looks even tighter. Add to that the last CCI* is Aldon which is pretty stiff in comparison to say Weston or Hartpury so not necessarily a good one to aim for.

Remember that they have re-named Qualification Requirements as Minimum Eligibility Requirements for good reason: to try to encourage us to remember that just because we are qualified for a certain level doesn't mean we are ready to try it :eek: I would be inclined to aim to get Herbie really established at Novice, and get one or two CIC*s under your belt (Somerford, Gatcombe?) so you can come out all guns blazing in 2014 and aim for early intermediates and a CCI* then.

He is so smart, he is worth taking your time with :)

Thank you for all of this. You are right he is inexperienced XC, he has jumped 1.40s SJ but hadn't seen a XC fence 2 years ago and we have messed about trying to qualify for Grassroots. I am also inexperienced! I had provisionally penciled in Gatcombe CIC* so that and Somerford may be a good plan if it all goes well as you say it will be pushing it to try and qualify anyway. Thank you very much for your advice, I think it might be a case of trying to run before we can walk!

If you've competed at FEI before you'll be on their list of who's qualified to do what. I'm qualified to do exactly the same in 2013 as in 2012 so I doubt much has changed.

OP - TD speaks sense (you probably knew that ;)). I'd want a complete season (or two half seasons) at Nov for a CCI*. I did one on a horse who had done 2 seasons at Nov, an Int (barring the last two XC fences), a CIC* and a couple of INs. We were still not sufficiently prepared. CIC*s are fun so aim for a couple of those in the Autumn and go walk a couple of CCI*s if you get the chance. Don't forget that you'll have to jump a very big (looks that way to me anyway ;)) SJ track on the last day on a less-than-fresh horse too.

No never competed FEI. I think what you have said is the general consensus and makes sense to me now! I think the plan will be as you say two half seasons at Novice at least and an autumn CCI* in 2014 (assuming everything goes to plan of course, which horses don't seem to like doing!) I never really thought about jumping the SJ on a tired horse! Thanks for the advice :)
 

Saratoga

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 January 2008
Messages
1,823
Visit site
Am I right in thinking you now have to do a cic* to be eligible for a cic**? Rather than being able to get the qualification from intermediates?
 

kerilli

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 April 2002
Messages
27,417
Location
Lovely Northamptonshire again!
Visit site
Qualifications which would have enabled you to do x level in 2012 will carry on to cover you to do x level in 2013. This is one of the concessions ERA worked on in their meeting with the FEI.
As for the rest, TableDancer is spot on.
I'd want to have done a whole season of Novice well to go to a CCI*, and personally I would always do at least 1 Intermediate first. That was the old qualification and it was a soundly thought out one imho.
 

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
Except that National Riders will (apparently) still have to achieve the nec FEI Mer as a combination, so a rider qualified to do a CIC2 * in 2012 with a new ride for 2013 will have to do a CIC1* first, even if the horse is advanced and qual for 2 and 3*.

I do hope that I have misunderstood it, and I wish BE would clarify the national requirements asap!
 
Last edited:

blue2262

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2007
Messages
460
Visit site
Am I right in thinking you now have to do a cic* to be eligible for a cic**? Rather than being able to get the qualification from intermediates?

That is my understanding at this stage, it is the FEI MER, you will also have to satisfy BE requirements which have yet to be announced.
 

TableDancer

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2008
Messages
4,660
Location
Monmouthshire
Visit site
That is my understanding at this stage, it is the FEI MER, you will also have to satisfy BE requirements which have yet to be announced.

True, but A, have you noted that someone above has pointed out that the FEI has now stipulated (presumably to help with transition) that if you were qualified to ride at a certain level in 2012 you will still be qualified in 2013? will this help S?
 
Top