Chair seat problems and struggling to sit in canter on very wide horse.

Anna Clara

Anna Clara

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Hi all,
I wondered if anyone here had experienced struggling when riding a very wide horse and has any tips or advice? I don't get hip or back pain from riding but find it very difficult to keep my legs sort of under me in anything faster than walk and am struggling a lot to sit to the canter. I don't have this problem on other horses and have previously done a lot of dressage, showing, side saddle, hunting, breakers and riding out etc in a whole variety of saddles without being too terrible a rider. I got given this lovely horse four years ago , and have barely progressed beyond happy hacking and prelim level flatwork as I struggle with motivation I think due to not really feeling "gelled." I trust him 99%, he is the loveliest character and I re-backed him myself when he was 9 years old after a 5 year break from when he was first lightly backed (previous owner had no time and turned away). I am definitely less fit than I used to be which isn't helping but I just can't get right on this horse. Have had two instructors recently who laugh when I try to explain what I think the problem is (I agree it is quite funny and I am a nightmare for excuses in general but I genuinely think it's hindering me?), a physio suggested a back riser under his SMS fitted Black Country XW VSD which definitely helps stop me sliding back so much and sits me slightly more upright. I should be getting a saddler out in the next few weeks (big waiting lists!) to try some dressage saddles as I wonder if this would help lengthen and wrap my legs round him? Has anyone else found anything that helps them when they feel straddled on a big wide horse?

I'm 5'2, he's about 15.3. He is often overweight in summer despite shetland pony style management. The photo that should be attached was taken coming out of winter and that is him fairly trim. Does he look wide or am I making excuses?! Am happy to be told I am.

Is my riding just getting more and more rubbish or is a different saddle going to help or is it a lost cause and I'm just too short for a big wide horse? (who will never be sold and I'll just have to stick with hacking and low level stuff with a forward seat in canter if that's the case ha!)

I've also spoken to a biomechanics specialist who may be able to do a sort of distance online consultation so I'm hoping that will help dry up some of my confusion, but in the meantime, thank you so much for any case studies, stories and advice you may have. I just feel really stuck and frustrated at the moment and this is the only reason I can come up with for seemingly getting worse as a rider :(
 

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It sounds like you just have the wrong saddle. Have a look at Balance International - their saddles are deliberately designed to be very wide so a) might suit your horse and b) there may be some useful information about riding in wide saddles - I know their first tip would be to shorten stirrups. Heather Moffett also does lovely saddles that suit wide horses and put the rider in a good position effortlessly.
 
Thank you Solo Equestrian. I really really hope you are right! One of the saddlers I've sent an enquiry to is Lavinia Mitchell who I think used to work for Balance and works along a similar concept? Have heard very mixed reviews about the HM saddles though so haven't followed that thought up yet?
I have my fingers crossed that a saddle will make a world of difference...that would be wonderful and I'll be kicking myself for not just taking myself seriously and doing it years ago!!
 
P.s. shorter stirrups makes me feel worse and even more perched and at the back of the saddle? Although I was originally trained with quite long stirrups apart from of course for team chasing/jumping/hunting so maybe it's ingrained in me to struggle with short stirrups on the flat!
 
Often when the rider habitually adopts a chair seat, it is because the stirrup bars are set too far forward, which means that the rider often ends up sitting on their tailbone, A differetn saddle with the stirrup bars set further back can sort the problem out.
 
I'm thinking it's probably a saddle problem maybe not suiting you but fits the horse . So a change of saddle could sort it out hopefully !
 
I'm 5'3" and my mare is part bred French draft - her width is all draft horse genes!

In her saddle company wide saddle I know I don't have my legs falling where they should because I get lower back ache. In her WOW saddle it's a lot better.

But when I ride my pony (Dales x so hardly slender) my position is zillion times better. My instructor had me on various school horses last year and i definitely sit better on more slender horses.

So although saddles can help I also think us vertically challenged types are always going to find broader horses harder
 
Saddles definitely help or hinder! One of my previous saddles offered no support and i found it really difficult to keep my lower leg still. I would definitely try some others if you can!
 
The right saddle can definitely improve things but it's always going to be more difficult to keep your leg in the correct position on a wide horse - just watch some of the riders in a cob class for multiple examples of a chair seat ! Having said that some of those cobs are the lightest , most responsive rides you'll ever see .
 
Thanks so much all for all of the saddle hope! I have a saddler coming on Friday. She has seen photos and said he will be hard to fit due to being wide and curvy but she might have some that will suit. Finger crossed. Oh I so hope a saddle will help as he is just the loveliest horse but I feel so hopeless on him at the moment.

Should stirrups hang straight to the ground? I've been analysing and drawing lines on lots of photos of me riding and when my stirrups hang straight my legs are about 10cm too far forward. If in right place I can see the stirrup leathers are pulled back at an angle although studying dressage rider photos many do seem to pull their stirrup leathers back?

How stupid of me if a saddle makes a big difference...should have sorted it years ago instead of beating myself up!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Often when the rider habitually adopts a chair seat, it is because the stirrup bars are set too far forward, which means that the rider often ends up sitting on their tailbone, A differetn saddle with the stirrup bars set further back can sort the problem out.
Click to expand...

A common reason but not the only one, and ultimately if the horse, and therefore twist (and don't fit a narrow twist, IMO, to a very wide horse, it potentially causes all sorts of issues, Google "latif srt 2018" for the research), is wider than the rider's hips can really deal with.

Stirrups should hang vertically Anna Clara, when you are aligned shoulder, hip heel, though in a GP saddle you'll be very slightly behind the stirrups but only mm. If you get stuck search for specialist wide horse fitters, they will be able to offer you a choice of wider saddles whereas generalist fitters don't have so may models they can access, and aren't doing it day in day out. I would try as many as you can (and that means having a fitter with wide stock, not plumping for m2m without having ridden in it).
 
Thank you sbloom. That worries me with reading about narrower twist saddles. Hopefully something with better positioned stirrup bars will make enough of a difference. I think current saddle is a VSD, it could be a GP. No idea!
Thanks for the advice, I do think that might be where I went wrong with the first saddle, she had just the one possibility to try so I bought it. Physio yesterday agreed it looks like it fits him well to be fair but I remember being concerned about feeling chair seaty even at the fitting years ago. I'll be more patient this time!
 
Anna Clara said:
P.s. shorter stirrups makes me feel worse and even more perched and at the back of the saddle? Although I was originally trained with quite long stirrups apart from of course for team chasing/jumping/hunting so maybe it's ingrained in me to struggle with short stirrups on the flat!
Click to expand...

It sounds as though you are being pushed to the back of the saddle with the shorter stirrup length. Also, possibly the saddle isn’t wide enough so could be you’re sliding back because of that too? Also agree about the positioning of the stirrup bars as some will cause your leg to be pulled forward ( you can get saddles with 2 positions for stirrup bars). I agree with others that the saddle sounds to be the problem! Hope you get sorted?
 
I ride a wide coblet (profile pic) so know exactly the issues you will be having! Mine's a youngster and we're still working on her canter so can totally sympathise! Currently I am riding treeless in a narrow-twisted saddle but generally treeless is generally not the best way to go with a wider horse.

Personally I would echo what others have said re. a good saddle fitter as I think you would find this makes a huge difference.

I would suggest you get an AH Saddles fitter out to give you some advice as they cater for the sort of horse you have.
 
Hi all, I just thought I'd put an update on this in case anyone is researching similar problems and was interested in the outcome.

It turns out not only did the saddle not suit me (or maybe it would have on the right horse!), it was an awful, narrow fit for my horse (despite being fitted and checked by an SMS fitter...how many times have we heard that on here!) I had actually expressed doubts about it being too narrow when I first bought it but saddler said it was fine and I thought who am I to argue? Of course the saddle was not balanced and was sliding me back which was putting a lot of pressure on to his back and caused extreme muscle wastage. I've since had a top physio out and a couple of saddlers and struggled to find options for something as wide as him. The AH saddles mentioned above sound great and I've ended up with a size 5 Lavinia Mitchell VSD saddle as they are based not far from us. Our fitter Jemma took lots of time to work out what would suit him and us and was very relaxed about me buying second hand instead of new. I got lucky and found an almost new second hand saddle for £800 :)

So far so good although I'll admit everything seems to feel very different for both my horse and I so we are a bit wobbly and getting used to our new bodies! The physio said it will take 6 - 9 months of gentle, careful and correct work for him to regain full strength anyway. I feel terrible, I can't believe I was riding in something that did so much damage and my poor, lovely, honest horse showed no extreme signs of pain at all apart from being slightly harder to bend on one rein. I'm praying I have got it right this time.
 
I didn't see your post in June but have to say I immediately wondered if it was your saddle. We talk a lot about how the wrong saddle affects the comfort of the horse but not a lot about how it affects a rider. My saddler is so busy ATM that I took my horse to him yesterday (still had to wait a month though), it's a horrible journey and not one I like doing. Both saddles needed widening as Rose has put a lot of muscle on recently and the saddle was too tight at the front and tending to slip back, it was also lifting slightly at the back because it wasn't in the correct place. The dressage saddle kept me in a reasonably correct position but in the GP my stirrups felt very odd and I was definitely tending to sit on my fork which made me very sore. I hacked out today in the GP and felt like a different rider! Well done in finding a suitable second hand one, I did wonder if I was going to have to replace my GP and had prepared OH for a big bill, in the end it was £20 and the cost of the diesel!
 
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