Change in equestrians mentality - more ethical or just ridiculous

[JCbruce]

I am just wondering what peoples thoughts are on whether there is a changing mentality in the equine community on keeping and riding horses.

I have completely changed my thinking from how I was brought up and trained. When I worked at a competition yard in the winter all horses were stabled 24/7, backed and jumping by 3 and competing by 4. To back a horse you lunge it day one, hop on them day 2 and in draw reins by day 3. I cant remember any horse what was jumped in a snaffle. Every horse was ridden in spurs.

Now I have the sweetest baby horse in the world I backed him this year at 4 after loads of ground work and positive re-enforcement and he was perfect to hack alone from day 1. He then hacked for 6 months and had loads of holidays. I keep him out in a herd as much as possible. I have a snaffle and loose nose band no flash. I am continuously looking for ways to improve his happiness e.g. reduce likely hood of ulcers, physios, training to make him stronger over the back, no lunging and very little schooling despite my mum telling me he is a 1.60 bred showjumper and I need to start 'getting on' with him and jumping.

I am becoming someone I used to make fun of and I'm sure if my old boss saw me now he would roll his eyes.

I see more people on social media upset with things in the equine sport such a hyperflexion and harsh bits. Is this a new change in mentality for lots of equestrians or should I just quit the idea of doing BS and start pereli and horse whispering haha.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think things change and not all for the better and you clearly started off on a bad yard .

 

[meleeka]

The biggest change I’ve noticed as that it was perfectly normal to keep a horse in 24/7. I have acquaintances that still think like that. Back in the 80’s they would be considered good owners, but now I just feel sorry for their horses.

I think there’s good and bad changes though. There’s a lot to be said for basic tack, now we have so much choice that the process of trial and error is indefinite!

 

[Sossigpoker]

Well done for opening your eyes to welfare and wellbeing. Your horse will be 100% better off with your compassionate ownership and management.

 

[webble]

That yard sounds awful, thankfully I'm not sure thats ever been the 'norm'

Things have changed because we know more and we know better. I agree with the above comment about how complicated tack has become recently

 

[lme]

I think OPs current approach is perfect for a young horse. Our 6yos are rarely ridden in an arena and are out as much as possible. They are very easy and seem pretty content with their lives despite being bred to be competition horses not happy hackers. Current babies (both with serious jumping bloodlines) are out full time and will be started pretty much like OPs.

 

[blitznbobs]

I backed horses in the late 80s and early 90s and none were done like that… we did the whole walking round with a dummy on their backs ( which I don’t do now) and spent ages “faffing about” with rollers etc… I did and still use side reins to establish a stable contact and my method of ground work has changed … used to do a lot more long reining and now I tend to work with them by their side in a normal bridle or halter … but I think the Biggest change in my attitude is to why a horse is doing things. I used to think a horse was naughty because he/she wanted to be and needed to be “ridden through it” but now I am much more likely to think they are in pain or they are unbalanced or I haven’t asked in a way they can understand…

 

[JCbruce]

The biggest change I’ve noticed as that it was perfectly normal to keep a horse in 24/7. I have acquaintances that still think like that. Back in the 80’s they would be considered good owners, but now I just feel sorry for their horses.

I think there’s good and bad changes though. There’s a lot to be said for basic tack, yet how, we have so much choice that the process of trial and error is indefinite!

Yeah there is

I backed horses in the late 80s and early 90s and none were done like that… we did the whole walking round with a dummy on their backs ( which I don’t do now) and spent ages “faffing about” with rollers etc… I did and still use side reins to establish a stable contact and my method of ground work has changed … used to do a lot more long reining and now I tend to work with them by their side in a normal bridle or halter … but I think the Biggest change in my attitude is to why a horse is doing things. I used to think a horse was naughty because he/she wanted to be and needed to be “ridden through it” but now I am much more likely to think they are in pain or they are unbalanced or I haven’t asked in a way they can understand…

this! When I was a kid my pony just kept chucking us off and my mum used to chase us on him untill the day I refused to get back on him and someone suggested his saddle. It had a broken tree and he had a bad back.

My mum just kept saying he was a naughty sharp Welsh. I was only 10 but the guilt I still feel from this.

 

[Glitter's fun]

@JCbruce your experience was unusual I think.
I backed horses in the 1970s. Standard method was lightly back the summer they're 4, start hacking with another horse, turn away all winter to grow, start again as if from scratch the summer they're 5. Travelling to shows with the older ones was the norm from 3 or 4, just whenever there was a spare place in the box, but just to hear the tannoy & have a walk about.
Tack was as simple as possible until they knew the basics.
My impression was that we weren't unusual - that was what most people were doing.
One thing I think has improved enormously is the existence of professional saddle fitters. I wouldn't have known what one was then.

 

[JCbruce]

@JCbruce your experience was unusual I think.
I backed horses in the 1970s. Standard method was lightly back the summer they're 4, start hacking with another horse, turn away all winter to grow, start again as if from scratch the summer they're 5. Travelling to shows with the older ones was the norm from 3 or 4, just whenever there was a spare place in the box, but just to hear the tannoy & have a walk about.
Tack was as simple as possible until they knew the basics.
My impression was that we weren't unusual - that was what most people were doing.
One thing I think has improved enormously is the existence of professional saddle fitters. I wouldn't have known what one was then.

I think sometimes the problem on competition yards is the need to make money and age classes which encourages pushing young horses. No 4 year old should be able to jump a 1.10

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Doesn't sound ridiculous to me at all, just that your current horse and any future ones you have seem likely to have a much happier and healthier life given your shift in perspective. Sounds like your young horse is having a really positive start in his ridden life and I really wish you both success when the time comes to start his BS career

 

[MissMay]

When i was younger on a large scale livery yard.
Ponies all lived out 24-7 in herds and most horses lived in.
It seemed more of a convenience as pony owners had more time being kids.

Tack was basic everything was snaffle and canvasson nose band the only real other bit was a 3 ring so you were one or the other

This was ireland in the late 90s

 

[Ceifer]

When i was younger on a large scale livery yard.
Ponies all lived out 24-7 in herds and most horses lived in.
It seemed more of a convenience as pony owners had more time being kids.

Tack was basic everything was snaffle and canvasson nose band the only real other bit was a 3 ring so you were one or the other

This was ireland in the late 90s

same here.

I was in for a rude awakening at my first job on a hunt yard. No turnout during the season, everything wore tons of rugs and duvets.
I spent hours trotting on roads to harden up legs.
End of the season rugs off and booted out for the summer.

 

[JCbruce]

same here.

I was in for a rude awakening at my first job on a hunt yard. No turnout during the season, everything wore tons of rugs and duvets.
I spent hours trotting on roads to harden up legs.
End of the season rugs off and booted out for the summer.

Sounds nicer then the evening yards

I was at a top yard and was told to put a heavy weight on over night in September horse was dripping in sweat in the morning. I told them and they said I had to put it on again the next night. This 5* rider was once so rough on a new horse that the yard manger came and grabbed the reins told him to get off the horse and not return for the rest of the day. Horse was literally shaking

 

[Cortez]

I've been breaking horses since the late 70's and nothing has ever been trained in my yard the way you describe, although I do know places where that is/was the norm. I think there were good and bad horsemen. What has maybe changed is the number of new, first time horse owners and the enormous expansion of businesses catering to people who perhaps don't know very much. There's being open to new ideas and better ways of doing things, and then there's slavishly following every trend and marketing ploy without having the experience or wisdom to know what's good, bad or indifferent.

ETA: I also think that an enormous amount of good practical horsemanship has been lost, or perhaps thrown out with the bathwater? Not everything old was bad, and not everything new is great.

 

[Ceifer]

Sounds nicer then the evening yards

I was at a top yard and was told to put a heavy weight on over night in September horse was dripping in sweat in the morning. I told them and they said I had to put it on again the next night. This 5* rider was once so rough on a new horse that the yard manger came and grabbed the reins told him to get off the horse and not return for the rest of the day. Horse was literally shaking

I had the over rugging whilst working in the south of France for an English rider who was obsessed with her horses being rugged at all times. We even had to use exercise sheets in summer. Much to the bemusement of the French riders and staff at the stable.

 

[sbloom]

Social media has changed things, for better, and for worse. As Cortez says, more novice horse owners liable to be hoodwinked, but a more critical gaze on traditional through to abusive approaches to horses, and sharing of better ways of doing things. I have not owned my own ridden horse since 2006 and boy would I do things very differently if I had one now. The way I work with my saddle fit customers is a long way from how I did things back then, and bear in mind I'd already stopped competing in dressage because of what was being rewarded, and stopped watching most top level dressage after being at Hickstead for the entire 2003 Europeans.

 

[Rowreach]

I like that we now think more about "starting" and "backing" horses rather than "breaking" them. I too started out several decades ago, and the worst yard I worked on was racing (pre-training) where we were backing cohorts of two year olds to a tight timescale, and it definitely wasn't pretty - or indeed for me, so I left and went to a hunting yard which was pretty much as above, fat horses brought in in the middle of August, didn't get any turn out until April when they were stripped of their rugs and fired out to grass a week after the closing meet.

There's a lot to like about the higher and more natural standards that most people apply to their horse's keep these days, but I do think we've become a bit unstuck with the variety of feedstuffs, balancers, supplements and accessories that are now available to the mostly confused horse owning population. And the tack and gadgets. But then the Abbott Davies Balancing Rein existed 40+ years ago ...

 

[oldie48]

There's always been good and bad owners, sometimes it's because of ignorance and sometimes it's because people don't care about being cruel and think only of their own convenience. I am seething this morning because of what I consider unbelievable cruelty. Local DIY yard called out the fire brigade as a horse had gone down in a stable and they couldn't get it up or out of the stable. I've seen this cob being hacked, it was clearly lame behind, it had struggled to get up in the field on a number of occasions so owner stabled it overnight because it didn't lie down in the stable (which was quite small). Yes, really! Horse should have been PTS in the summer when it started to struggle IMO. This is someone who has owned horses for most of her life, not a novice owner. Words fail me!

 

[twiggy2]

I consider myself really lucky at 16 in 88 I was a YTS pupil and we had our training on the yard I worked on. We have 5 hrs of lectures a week, and 5 plus hrs riding lessons, both of these were just the 4 or 5 training staff and our instructor.
We were a livery and riding school and we would have a youngster or 2 in for backing most of the time, we were taught lightly back at rising 4, ground work was thorough, more lunging than most places do these days and a lot of the backing was done in school but we did hack short distances.
All horses were turned out in groups in big fields every day for 2 hrs minimum but the field space was short but never deep much, riding school ponies were out at night all year round with hay when needed.
Hay was given at least 3 times a day, weighed for each individuals needs, feed given twice a day with feeds made for each individual animals needs.
Snaffles and cavessons were the norm unless something else suited better, some horses had separate jumping and hacking tack if they got her up.
No one ever rode in spurs, if it came up I think they would just have been told no.
Our yard manager and instructor was fantastic and trained elsewhere in Europe not the UK.
The last mare I backed did a lot bitless and the next will be started that way too.

 

[Wishfilly]

I do think there has been a change in mentality since I was a child from: "Oh they're just being naught, ride them through it." To trying to understand the reasons for behaviour, whether pain, fear etc, and to have a lot more understanding for the horse. I know a lot more people who will take it slowly and take their time, rather than trying to force their horse into things which scare them, which I do think is a lot more positive. And definitely a lot more done in the way of regular checks and investigations, which is so so good.

I think there is also more understanding of the downsides of doing lots of lunging etc, which again can only be good!

 

[Sarys]

I am just wondering what peoples thoughts are on whether there is a changing mentality in the equine community on keeping and riding horses.

I have completely changed my thinking from how I was brought up and trained. When I worked at a competition yard in the winter all horses were stabled 24/7, backed and jumping by 3 and competing by 4. To back a horse you lunge it day one, hop on them day 2 and in draw reins by day 3. I cant remember any horse what was jumped in a snaffle. Every horse was ridden in spurs.

Now I have the sweetest baby horse in the world I backed him this year at 4 after loads of ground work and positive re-enforcement and he was perfect to hack alone from day 1. He then hacked for 6 months and had loads of holidays. I keep him out in a herd as much as possible. I have a snaffle and loose nose band no flash. I am continuously looking for ways to improve his happiness e.g. reduce likely hood of ulcers, physios, training to make him stronger over the back, no lunging and very little schooling despite my mum telling me he is a 1.60 bred showjumper and I need to start 'getting on' with him and jumping.

I am becoming someone I used to make fun of and I'm sure if my old boss saw me now he would roll his eyes.

I see more people on social media upset with things in the equine sport such a hyperflexion and harsh bits. Is this a new change in mentality for lots of equestrians or should I just quit the idea of doing BS and start pereli and horse whispering haha.

I think we change and want to do things differently. New ways of working with horses continue to develop and it’s great to learn and decide how we want to do things.
I know I do things differently now to how I started out.

 

[rabatsa]

Aged 9/10 the local vet used to toss me up onto 2yr old welsh ponies, his daughter who was late teens had done a lot of ground work with them but was too heavy to ride them. We would then go out hacking several times a week until the ponies were sold. He took these ponies as payment for outstanding bills from a chap who would go to the foal sales and come home with up to 40 foals in a cattle wagon.

I never got a vet bill for anything until I had turned 21, I used to keep my ponies in his field and he would vaccinate and worm them when due.

Those were the days.

 

[Ratface]

My horse is now 29 yrs old. I don't ride him now as I have M E and it has affected my balance to the extent that if he did one of his balletic spooks, I would almost certainly come off. He's very sharp, fast, 16hh, and I'm 78, so not a good idea in terms of my survival.
He lives out with his little herd of relatives, going out at dawn, (unless the weather dictates otherwise) and comes in just before dusk. Fed very plain, with ad lib hay and basic chop, balancer, horse nuts and linseed. He's a credit to the excellent management regime of the Yard Owner and her staff
I was brought up in a family who hunted regularly and stayed out for the whole day, changing horses in the middle if the going was fast or heavy.
I learned a great deal from the stable yard staff about horse management, good and less good, and how to be brave when I didn't feel it.
I feel that I was privileged to have had such a solid grounding and have made every effort to build upon it through all the disciplines and horses that I have experienced.
My current horse will, I think, be my last. However, never say never . . .

 

[SEL]

When I was younger ponies were generally started at 4, chucked back out for winter and then picked up again in their 5th year. I'm conscious producers need them sold on but I think I see them rushed more these days which is a shame as we know a lot about growth plates, development etc.

Everything had turnout though. I don't think I was on a yard until recently where horses were routinely stabled 24:7

I do like the fact we're all more aware that misbehaving horses are often in pain. I carry a fair bit of guilt for some "just ride them through it" horses from my youth.

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

The 'good old days' had a lot to recommend them for and also a lot to condemn them for.
I remember when a 15yo horse was generally considered 'past it' and now we have 18yo + horses completing Badminton and other 4* events.
Our increased knowledge of how to support our equestrian companions through good saddle fitting, enhanced diagnostics, and a general improved understanding of good management has without doubt been advantageous to the welfare of our horses.
That is not to say, however, that a certain amount of common sense and experience is no longer valid but we all need to 'keep up ' with genuine things that are good while trying to avoid stupid 'trends' that are just fashionable and tend to appeal to the inexperienced.