Changes to BD Competition Structure
- Thread starter Sparklet
- Start date
josie_s
Well-Known Member
I think they should review the points structure if that involves rider groups as well.
It really p's me off that because I scored 1 point in elementry about 8 years ago I am still a group 6 rider and have to compete in Open sections of Novice. Not very fair on my baby when I bring her out later this year as the way I understand it we cannot do Prelim Q's
Now dont get me wrong I understand that we all need to progress but I haven't even competed BD for about 7 1/2 years but I'm still a group 6. If I'd known then what I know now I would never have entered it.
ARGH!! Sorry, rant over
It really p's me off that because I scored 1 point in elementry about 8 years ago I am still a group 6 rider and have to compete in Open sections of Novice. Not very fair on my baby when I bring her out later this year as the way I understand it we cannot do Prelim Q's
Now dont get me wrong I understand that we all need to progress but I haven't even competed BD for about 7 1/2 years but I'm still a group 6. If I'd known then what I know now I would never have entered it.
ARGH!! Sorry, rant over
FREESTYLER
Well-Known Member
umm lots to digest and think about there.... give me half an hour!!
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
I think that is one of the things that they mention. The suggestion is that you are able to take up to a max of three horses up through the ranks as a restricted rider (changing the restricted label too but the meaning will be the same).
Apparently they are inviting feedback.
Apparently they are inviting feedback.
josie_s
Well-Known Member
Great. I'll give them mine for sure.
Thanks for bringing it to my awareness though Sparklet.
Thanks for bringing it to my awareness though Sparklet.
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
Personally I see it as another reflection of the way society is going. Current system already works well and what seems to have been over looked is that the overall winner in a comp is often fron the restricted section.
Certainly there is manipulation of the rules and loopholes such as freestyle not recieving points etc but a look at the loopholes may be a better option than a major overhaul.
I also have to question some of the thinking. Does anyone really believe that a restricted rider whould not enter the nationals if qualified to do so in case they made the top 10 and lost their restricted status? Come on. If my OH is anything to go by it would be a small price to pay. Surely to 99% of the restricted riders this would be the pinnicale of their riding career.
Certainly there is manipulation of the rules and loopholes such as freestyle not recieving points etc but a look at the loopholes may be a better option than a major overhaul.
I also have to question some of the thinking. Does anyone really believe that a restricted rider whould not enter the nationals if qualified to do so in case they made the top 10 and lost their restricted status? Come on. If my OH is anything to go by it would be a small price to pay. Surely to 99% of the restricted riders this would be the pinnicale of their riding career.
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
I know of someone who was placed last year in Prelim and said they would not go if they qualfied at Nov because the horse was not ready for Elementary...so it does happen. Fortunately...or unfortunately they did not qualify for the Nationals.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
imo one of the reasons im only competing Bloss HC at medium level is because i dont want to have to compete Archie at open level elementary. Hes 5 and is entered for his first elementary mid march, but to have to compete him in the open section would be awful! Its hard enough competing him in the open section in novice........
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....... e.g. the groom who would technically be a professional vs. the ultra-rich owner with expensive horses and access to unlimited professional resources who would technically be an amateur.
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THIS is the problem within the sport, you get the really rich people who buy horses worth 50k++++++ have access to top trainers 24/7 as they dont work, but then they are saying that they are technically an amateur??
Personally i think it should all be left well alone, the system as it is is working fine, and yes you do get people on expensive horses and you do get certain people who are always winning whereever you go, but thats life im afraid........
[ QUOTE ]
....... e.g. the groom who would technically be a professional vs. the ultra-rich owner with expensive horses and access to unlimited professional resources who would technically be an amateur.
[/ QUOTE ]
THIS is the problem within the sport, you get the really rich people who buy horses worth 50k++++++ have access to top trainers 24/7 as they dont work, but then they are saying that they are technically an amateur??
Personally i think it should all be left well alone, the system as it is is working fine, and yes you do get people on expensive horses and you do get certain people who are always winning whereever you go, but thats life im afraid........
Little_Mare
Well-Known Member
I think I'm pro the three horse idea but I'm new to BD so haven't yet experienced where the current system falls down (only what I've read) - can any one think of any disadvantages to this?
not_with_it
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you say PG, the current system does work well. I think they want to make too many changes. The only thing I would introduce is the 3 horse system. People are afraid to move up the levels as they lose their 'R' status. Im hesitating moving up to elementary and putting it off as once I make the move I cant go back if something goes wrong. I also think once you get to the higher levels you should be level with the pro's. If you can train a horse to AM and above you must be doing something right.
I think changing to pro - am would be too hard to police and would never work.
I think changing to pro - am would be too hard to police and would never work.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
i agree, and i for one am looking forwards to competing against professionals at higher levels......
I also agree with what you said about moving up a level, as like i posted i wont compete Bloss properly at medium level because i then dont want to have to compete Archie at open level elementary.
I also agree with what you said about moving up a level, as like i posted i wont compete Bloss properly at medium level because i then dont want to have to compete Archie at open level elementary.
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
I totally agree that introducing a pro/am system would be tricky and would probably discriminate against certain groups of people. Steph Croxford is an "amateur", but I don't fancy competing in the same section as she in a medium qualifier!
I like the restricted/open distinctions, and think that it is a brilliant idea to run restricted sections higher than Medium. The "three horse" solution is excellent; it will help riders be more ambitious and allow them to try a higher level without risking losing restricted status.
I'm glad that BD is addressing this problem so positively.
I like the restricted/open distinctions, and think that it is a brilliant idea to run restricted sections higher than Medium. The "three horse" solution is excellent; it will help riders be more ambitious and allow them to try a higher level without risking losing restricted status.
I'm glad that BD is addressing this problem so positively.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Ditto madmare,
I found myself in the situation last summer when I was riding a horse short term to sell for his owner, the horse hadn't done BD before but was winning the majority of his tests at Novice Restricted, I desperately wanted to do elementary on him but stopped myself purely because I would then be forced into the Novice open category when it comes to eventually competing my now 3yo ...
I think the 3 horse rule will be fantastic.
I found myself in the situation last summer when I was riding a horse short term to sell for his owner, the horse hadn't done BD before but was winning the majority of his tests at Novice Restricted, I desperately wanted to do elementary on him but stopped myself purely because I would then be forced into the Novice open category when it comes to eventually competing my now 3yo ...
I think the 3 horse rule will be fantastic.
GlamourDol
Well-Known Member
Not really sure how the Pro - Am thing would work?
Surely there would be too many different situations of people to take into account!
For ex. Iv competed upto Inter 1 gone abroad at Juniors etc but because horses are not my career does that make me an ammateur?
And the other way, if some one is running a riding school and has a horse at Novice, would that make them professional as horses are their career?
BD works why try and make changes that will make the system more complicated?!
Surely there would be too many different situations of people to take into account!
For ex. Iv competed upto Inter 1 gone abroad at Juniors etc but because horses are not my career does that make me an ammateur?
And the other way, if some one is running a riding school and has a horse at Novice, would that make them professional as horses are their career?
BD works why try and make changes that will make the system more complicated?!
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
I think one of the things that BD raised in their meeting what that the pro-am would be really difficult to implement. I dont think any decisions have been made yet and to be honest reading their notes it does not appear to be something that they intend to go with. They are asking for our views.
There is a bit about imported horses having fewer points as that bit was introduced to deal with the professional who import fab horses that have achieved a lot already...not really for the secretary who happens to buy an imported horse.
They also appear to be trying to deal with the issue of riders not really wanting to move upwards because it is a one way street - i.e. they 'have a go' then find they are in the open section if they find they are not ready.
I like the profile raising of area festivals but I also think they need to do something about qualification because it is virtually impossible not to qualify....I would prefer to see it tightened up a bit so it is not regarded as a free for all.
I am going to have a really good read of the material and draft a response. I do think they are hoping for a lot though by saying that they dont want to move the disadvantages to a different group because whatever they do it will disadvantage some people.
There is a bit about imported horses having fewer points as that bit was introduced to deal with the professional who import fab horses that have achieved a lot already...not really for the secretary who happens to buy an imported horse.
They also appear to be trying to deal with the issue of riders not really wanting to move upwards because it is a one way street - i.e. they 'have a go' then find they are in the open section if they find they are not ready.
I like the profile raising of area festivals but I also think they need to do something about qualification because it is virtually impossible not to qualify....I would prefer to see it tightened up a bit so it is not regarded as a free for all.
I am going to have a really good read of the material and draft a response. I do think they are hoping for a lot though by saying that they dont want to move the disadvantages to a different group because whatever they do it will disadvantage some people.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I like the profile raising of area festivals but I also think they need to do something about qualification because it is virtually impossible not to qualify....I would prefer to see it tightened up a bit so it is not regarded as a free for all.
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i TOTALLY agree with this, to qualify for the petplan regionals you only need to get two scores 59% and over which is rediculously low. I know at higher levels its harder for some people to get this score, but at prelim/novice/elementary everyone is scoring over 59%........
I like the profile raising of area festivals but I also think they need to do something about qualification because it is virtually impossible not to qualify....I would prefer to see it tightened up a bit so it is not regarded as a free for all.
[/ QUOTE ]
i TOTALLY agree with this, to qualify for the petplan regionals you only need to get two scores 59% and over which is rediculously low. I know at higher levels its harder for some people to get this score, but at prelim/novice/elementary everyone is scoring over 59%........
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Guest
[ QUOTE ]
For ex. Iv competed upto Inter 1 gone abroad at Juniors etc but because horses are not my career does that make me an ammateur?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes
[ QUOTE ]
And the other way, if some one is running a riding school and has a horse at Novice, would that make them professional as horses are their career?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
I think the eg you give of yourself is correct, you would and should be an ammateur. However the eg you of give of someone running a riding school would be pro but should not be. They'd probably have to find some way of defining pro by whether you make money from dressage not horses in general.
However I agree that a pro/am system would not be the best way forward.
I do think though that there are lots of flaws in the current system but would rather that they modify it than completely change it!
For ex. Iv competed upto Inter 1 gone abroad at Juniors etc but because horses are not my career does that make me an ammateur?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes
[ QUOTE ]
And the other way, if some one is running a riding school and has a horse at Novice, would that make them professional as horses are their career?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
I think the eg you give of yourself is correct, you would and should be an ammateur. However the eg you of give of someone running a riding school would be pro but should not be. They'd probably have to find some way of defining pro by whether you make money from dressage not horses in general.
However I agree that a pro/am system would not be the best way forward.
I do think though that there are lots of flaws in the current system but would rather that they modify it than completely change it!
hati
Well-Known Member
it all seems so complicated in the UK, in Ireland for dressage we all compete in 1 section together. So if you do well against the pros you get an even bigger kick. In eventing I love competing against the pros, ok I will never win anything at Eventing Ireland, but my top 10 placings mean as much as it has been against the pros.
Should point out the dressage (aka stressage in our household) is at a much smaller scale in Ireland.
Should point out the dressage (aka stressage in our household) is at a much smaller scale in Ireland.
keysoe
Well-Known Member
Pro - Am is impossible, as your "lady who lunches" & has monthly lessons with Richard Davidson on her imported advanced horse will be an amateur, but her groom who rides a cheap self produced horse will be a professional (as will every riding school instructor)
NOBODY in the UK is a professional Dressage RIDER.
Biggest problem with the "one point and you are out" rider grouping rule is that it stifles rider development - riders do not want to try an elementary as they "might" get a point. This is entirely against the aims of BD which should encourage not punish this wish to improve
NOBODY in the UK is a professional Dressage RIDER.
Biggest problem with the "one point and you are out" rider grouping rule is that it stifles rider development - riders do not want to try an elementary as they "might" get a point. This is entirely against the aims of BD which should encourage not punish this wish to improve
Judie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
NOBODY in the UK is a professional Dressage RIDER
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean by this - what is Carl Hester and the like then?
NOBODY in the UK is a professional Dressage RIDER
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Not sure what you mean by this - what is Carl Hester and the like then?
Sparklet
Well-Known Member
I doubt Carl makes his living from the prize money - his living comes from training and riding horses for people, training people and from sponsorship.