Changing the diagonal...

[H-J]

Hi, Seems like a funny post but just wondered if anybody else has this problem?!!

I have real difficulty on one rein riding on the right diagonal, very basic thing to do I know!! But I have ridden up to elementary dressage, I Novice event etc etc, I have produced a number of horses to a high standard. I have had lessons with many dressage instructors including Paul Hayler and have had jump lessons with the merrets WFP etc and have NEVER I repeat NEVER been told to change it! By instructors or judges!! Does this mean that it doesnt really matter???

 

[ihatework]

I was under the impression that diagonals weren't marked for in dressage tests.

But although I don't think it matters in a test, I would still be training at home using correct diagonals

 

[AmyMay]

It does matter if you want a balanced and supple horse.

I change mine regularly out hacking - and it's amazing what a difference it makes. Loan horse had only really been ridden on left diagnal when I first took over, and felt very stiff and unlevel when the diagnal was changed.

She is now equally level (not talking about soundness issues here) and balanced on both reins.

 

[Helga1980]

At a recent RC ODE the judge in one of the arena commented on my friend being on the wrong diagonal against all but one of the trot movements (the last she commented that the circled was a funny size!).

However this was the same judge that gave another competitor two 8's for movements and then a 0 collective mark for submission so I don't think that's normal!

I also have a problem with my diagonals and haven't been picked up on since pony club until my current instructor who is constantly yelling at me about it. His reasoning is that M is very one sided and always pushes me onto the diagonal he favours so I'm worsening his one sidedness.

 

[Santa_Claus]

entirely depends on your balance. if you have such good centralised balance and a v good seat whatever diagonal you are on shouldn't affect the movement/rhythm/balance of the horse. Diagonals are most important at the lower levels because generally (not all before i'm shot) those riders have less secure and less independant seats and so to keep the horse balanced do need to change their diagonals.

I have always had it drilled into me to ride on the correct diagonal to the extent it feels wrong to me if on the incorrect diagonal so I do it instinctively and I don't find it an issue as I find it very easy to seat an extra beat.

If your not been told to change it basically means your seat and balance is good enough not to require you to do so. And it would only be mentioned in a test if it was obviously your lak of changes in diagonal were effecting the horse's way of going.

 

[kick_On]

where it really matter is when your training for changes within paces. IE working trot to meduim trot as you bum will be in the seat on the correct beat to ask for the hock to engage for power for required for pace.
But you should nevered be marked down for it test and i have been this year and I lost marks, so at that point i didn't read any more comment from that test and chucked test away

But it was an unafillated event and at this point i'm not going to say any more

 

[H-J]

That sounds good to me! As I have never been told then I just havent changed it and I think it would be too strange to change it. All the horses I have produced are supple and well balanced, and no body has ever commented on my horses being stiff. Just wondered what people views were on it!

 

[josephinebutter1]

Slightly different way of looking at this but, whether it is 'correct' or not to change diagonal, if you have real difficulty on one rein riding on the right diagonal, I would suggest that you are perhaps much weaker on this side, and therefore should be working on your strength and muscle tone on that side.

Not critising your riding in any way as by your posts, you are an acomplished rider, but we all have our faults!

As you have lessons with Paul Hayler, have you asked him his thoughts on this? Would be interested to hear.

I have had experience training many young horses and have always been taught that anything you can do as a rider to help your horse balance i.e. sit when his weight is on the inside hind, is a good thing (old proverb of inside leg to outside hand). Though I imagine a lightweight rider on a large horse would have much less to worry about than a larger rider on a small horse.

 

[H-J]

Hi, Im not having lessons at the mo with Paul, having lessons with a lady called Tracey, but Paul has never said anything in the past but agree would be interesting to ask him.

I do sometimes try but it feels soo soo odd!! And almost like the horse is lame! On any horse I ride it feels like that when I ride on the correct diagonal! Strange thing is my horses worst rein is the rein I am correct on!! And his better and more supple rein is the one where I am on the incorrect diagonal!!

 

[lil_northener]

I found that when you do more 'advanced' things liek jumping or dressage etc people don't say anything about diagonals, quite strange really!

I check mine automatically like someone else said - had it drummed it to me!

I stand up for two though to change instead of sitting, does anyone else do that?

 

[lindy]

i have been taught to sit for two - not so comfy on bumpy horses - will try standing.

As for diagonals, i was reminded what they were for recently when reading my bhs stage on manual again (don't ask why). V interestingly only changed for the benefit of the horse in a school situation?

Good to hear someone is changing whilst hacking, must be better for the horse althought i'm sure whilst out i'm not that organised to be checking my diagonal.

 

[tigers_eye]

Some german traqiners advocate using what we brits would call the "wrong" diagonal, on the basis that it frees up the inside hind to swing through, rather than sitting on it. I believe Bettina Hoy rides like this, but I could be wrong. I think you have to be consistent though, and I don't think you should always ride on the same diagonal.

 

[H-J]

Thank you!! Think I might stay as I am!

 

[Patchwork]

I stand for two when I'm warming up or jumping - it means I can check my balance as well as staying off the horse's back.

As for the original question - I don't know whether it 'matters' or not to the horse which diagonal you ride on but it would be an issue to me to feel as wrong as you do on one diagonal as it would imply some level of unevenness.

 

[Rambo]

I am always conscious of which diagonal I am on. It feels odd not to be

What is the 'correct' diagonal when you're out hacking though...I personally tend to decide on the basis of which way the ground slopes. For instance, if there is a slight gradient say left falling down to the right I would expect to ride with the horse very slightly bent into the slope (i.e left), and thus ride as if I am on the left rein....right shoulder coming back as I sit.

Don't know if it's 'right' but it certainly feels most comfortable and balanced to me

 

[H-J]

I dont think there is any uneveness as I feel weird on the right diagonal on any horse I ride!! And I ride quite a few

 

[Patchwork]

Sorry - I meant unevenness in terms of the rider...

 

[H-J]

Oh right. I think it just feels strange as I have ridden on the other one for so long. But going by the post's here I think 50% say it does no harm and 50% say I should change it!

Im reluctant to change as with all my horses I have done extremely well dressage wise with them and have produced them myself, everybody always says the flatwork is my strong point, so it cant be doing any harm to horse or rider

 

[vic07]

thinking from a athletes' point of view - surely it is sensible to work the horse evenly so it is strong through both sides. My horses go hacking and do half trot work on one diagonal and half on the other. That way they are even, strong and regular.

I have trained and competed up to psg and trained with pretty much everyone - thank-you Byrds. And have had it drummed into me to work on the correct diagonal. I always assumed that everyone rode on the correct diagonal to ensure the horse is even and regular. I can always tell when riding a horse if it hasn't been ridden on both diagonals- as it will have an obviously stronger side.

I like the idea from Tigers-eye of riding on the wrong diagonal, but again I would assume you would do this equally on each rein. Riding on the weaker diagonal will always feel wierd if you are not used to it.

 

[kick_On]

also in france they teach you to ride on what we would say is 'wrong diagional'

 

[Weezy]

My Spanish lad is super sensitive to the seat and diagonal, if I come across the centre of the school, change diagonal, he knows immediately we are then off on the other rein and his whole body immediately begins to flex that way - its rather useful!

 

[KatB]

Very useful!! What does everyone consider to be the right diagonal then?? I know what I think, but have been told different at least once.... ????

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Very useful!! What does everyone consider to be the right diagonal then?? I know what I think, but have been told different at least once.... ????

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The way most people would be taught in this country would be outside shoulder coming back as you sit

 

[Weezy]

Sit when inside forleg in on the ground (same thing, different explanation)

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Sit when inside forleg in on the ground (same thing, different explanation)

[/ QUOTE ]

Errggghh...that's completely confused me lol! I can only think of it as one's backside coming down to meet the outside leg (which would be on the ground)

 

[Weezy]

Uh oh! Well I sit when the inside fore is on the ground - if you imagine it that a horse is going round a tight bend I mirror the movement of the inside leg - never been told I am on the wrong diagonal in a lesson so I *hope* I havent been wrong for 30 years ARGH!

 

[ihatework]

PMSL !!
In the UK, via riding schools and PC etc it is taught how Rambo said ... i.e. you sit as the outside shoulder comes back.
However, I am led to believe that on continental Europe it is more common to do it the other way around, i.e. what you do Weezy!
TBH I don't think it makes a huge difference which way you do it provided your diagonals are frequently changed. I'd be more worried if I was on the same diagonal most of the time irrespective of which direction I was going in ... to me that spells either a very stiff rider or a very stiff horse!

 

[KatB]

Yeah I do the same, but use the inside leg, so sit as the inside shoulder moves away from me, if that makes sense????

 

[Weezy]

ARGH this is hysterical! Right I am going to find a trot vid and post it LOL!

 

[Rambo]

Hehehe....this is very amusing

I just did a google and came up with this straight away :-

http://www.youngrider.com/youngrider/detail.aspx?aid=2049&cid=3738&search=

[ QUOTE ]
It's easy to check if you're on the correct diagonal. Just look down with your eyes — not your whole head — and look at your horse's outside foreleg. When it's forward, you should be up out of the saddle. When it's back, you should be sitting in the saddle.


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