Cheap Indian saddle/bridles on ebay...

Shysmum

Shysmum

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I would be really interested in a discussion on these saddles and bridles imported from India, that are freely available in the UK, mainly via ebay. I would be really interested to know what actual saddlers have to say too :)

In my search for a treeless saddle, and a bitless bridle, I have come across COUNTLESS items that have been made in India, and are offered at way below what you would expect to pay. These saddles and bridles are not tested in any way (indeed is any tack for safety and quality :confused:), and Mr General Public is obviously keen to buy, as more and more of the stuff keeps appearing.

What I want to know is this - do people who buy this stuff realise exactly what they are buying, does it concern them, regarding their horse's welfare, and should there be a crackdown on these saddles/bridles coming in to the UK, in light of what they are made of, how they are made, and the potential of damage to the horse ??

I found this link when researching this ;http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour..._en-GBGB391GB391&q=cosmic+leathers+saddles+uk

Another one, for example, is the guy who sells "awesome sexy treeless saddles" - my god, who buys from HIM ????

Also, many of the "named makes" are made in India, which you would not know unless you googled for some time - would this influence your choice if you knew this, and do you think that all tack should have a "made in........" label applied ?

Just really interested what other peeps think. Should the industry be more regulated, or is the competition keeping prices of genuine stuff lower ??? :)
 
I'd much rather wait for the sales and get something of quality rather than a cheapy badly made one. I understand that some of the more expensive names are also made in places like India and Vietnam where they can cut down on costs but they have more stringent testing and higher standards on these products. If push came to shove I'd buy second hand rather than cheaply made rubbish. I picked up a lovely Stubben with stirrups and leathers the other month for under 300 quid.
 
Someone told me Radley handbags are now made in India! Don't know if it's true, I can't tell

Years ago I had a bit of indian leather rip, looked like torn cardboard, guessing the quality can be pretty variable.
 
I've seen one of these Indian treeless saddles stripped down, and it was enough to make your hair curl :confused::eek: They are made of the cheapest materials and held together with nothing more than a bit of glue. The webbing that the girth straps are stitched to is literally the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap deck chair, and is in two pieces (rather than one piece attached to girth straps on both sides).

They are an absolute deathtrap, and the worst thing is that people buy these things as a cheap option for their kids :eek:

Gawd knows what they would do to a horse's back longterm, but I doubt any of them last long enough, which is possibly the only good thing about them:rolleyes:
 
I have no problem with the cheap bridles except that for some reason the throatlash is almost always ridiculously short! I even buy cheap reins from a reputable source - Robinsons, Rideaway, and check for flaws before I use them, but I have never had a problem and I hunt, jump and ride fast in them on horses which pull. I would never use billetted reins, only buckled ones. If you oil them regularly they are fine for day to day use.

The saddles - would not touch one with the proverbial bargepole and the Argentinian ones can be a problem too. I got an Henri de Rivel once where the stirrup bars were so close to the tree that it was completely impossible to thread a stirrup leather onto it.
 
its was probably 10 years ago now when we did research into this. Anyway we had found the trees made out of pile wood and "USED" medical waste was being put into these.

Cannot comment nowadays it was when we had an online saddlery. We did an article to go on our website about it.
 
It makes me laugh the people who avoid anything Indian like the plague but buy the cheap saddlery on ebay that is labelled "English leather" yes it's English leather BUT the actual bridle etc is made in India using Indian methods of "craftsmanship" and Indian lorinery, (buckles,fittings etc) how many of you have had a "English" piece of saddlery that the buckles, hook studs, trigger hooks etc have broken, ever wondered why?
And the leather is so dry as it's been made here, shipped out on a boat to India, sat in their warehouse in the heat, then made into saddlery, then shipped back, then sat in a wholesalers warehouse for god knows how long, then in a shop or storage if online retailer finally you get it!
Leather loses moisture everyday whether it is used or not, so after it's first few months of life it is very dry and liable to break.I get "English leather" bridles in all the time to replace leather running and fixed loops, the originals are paper thin and bone dry.
The Indian saddles made in India using English leather again have Indian trees!
Now if you saw some of those you'd run amile!
Ever seen inside a Rhinegold synthetic saddle?
Believe me you wish you hadn't, Rhinegold is a name used by a certain wholesaler and the items are actually made yes, you guessed it, in India using either synthetic materials or German leather, it's one big con!
The wording on "English leather" saddlery is wrong, it IS English leather yes, but the way it is worded it gives people the impression it is made here instead of abroad. Don't let the retailers on ebay tell you otherwise!
I have to go out now but will be back later to answer any questions anyone has about it.
Oz :)
 
Oz, really interesting - more please :)

So it's not worth the fact that it's "English Leather" - what we should know about this stuff is that it is MADE in england, or more correctly made in INDIA. And how do you find this out ? Well atm, you have to go to each manufacturer, and ask them where the stuff is made. And you'd be shocked ::eek: That's IF they tell you the truth.

isn't it about time that the place of manufacture was a legal addition to the labelling ? I really think so, after this 6 month epic I've been on.

In fact, it would be interesting to contact all the sellers and ask them outright, and post the results ?
 
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I am told by a friend that has a tack shop - most of the well known and respected brands are now made in China - but isnt everything?:(

A few years ago I had a teenager loaning a horse of mine - she asked could she put a 'lovely pair of reins' she had bought at a show on his bridle. Told her to do what she liked but they were cheap c**p and wouldnt use them myself for safety reasons. Fast forward to 1st exhuberant gallop up a stubble field - horse got strong, reins snapped away from the bit!!!:eek: Luckily neither rider nor horse came to grief - but a very good lessons was learnt that day by my young friend!:)
 
My last horse came "with tack"
I tried him in a lovely stubben, when he came he had a cheap new one from eBay. There was no way I was even going to put it on his back, the flocking was all lumply uneven in size, unbalanced and the seat was twisted. And that's not even getting me started on the leather!!!

Well I told the owners no thankyou and got 250 knocked off his price and went brought one that actually was a saddle and not a bit of c&£@
 
Sadly I believe most, if not all, equestrian stuff is now made in the East, it is a question of cost I'm afraid. Fal was an exception and look at the price of those! I believe the company that has bought and taken over the name Fal is having the rugs made out East now.

Older peeps may actually wonder why bits have decreased in price (with the exception of KK, Neue Shule etc), some being cheaper than they were say 15 years ago, the reason is they are now made in Taiwan with Tiawanese stainless steel.

We no longer seem able to manufacture in this country, not without the price going through the roof, sad but true :(
 
shysmum said:
I would be really interested in a discussion on these saddles and bridles imported from India, that are freely available in the UK, mainly via ebay. I would be really interested to know what actual saddlers have to say too :)

In my search for a treeless saddle, and a bitless bridle, I have come across COUNTLESS items that have been made in India, and are offered at way below what you would expect to pay. These saddles and bridles are not tested in any way (indeed is any tack for safety and quality :confused:), and Mr General Public is obviously keen to buy, as more and more of the stuff keeps appearing.

What I want to know is this - do people who buy this stuff realise exactly what they are buying, does it concern them, regarding their horse's welfare, and should there be a crackdown on these saddles/bridles coming in to the UK, in light of what they are made of, how they are made, and the potential of damage to the horse ??

I found this link when researching this ;http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour..._en-GBGB391GB391&q=cosmic+leathers+saddles+uk

Another one, for example, is the guy who sells "awesome sexy treeless saddles" - my god, who buys from HIM ????

Also, many of the "named makes" are made in India, which you would not know unless you googled for some time - would this influence your choice if you knew this, and do you think that all tack should have a "made in........" label applied ?

Just really interested what other peeps think. Should the industry be more regulated, or is the competition keeping prices of genuine stuff lower ??? :)
Click to expand...

I am currently looking for a treeles saddle.
Do you mean the ones that are about £125 on Ebay, and come in about twelve colours?
I looked at them but daughter said she was'nt keen on buying from India.
 
I buy only British and German tack (mainly British) I would buy a cheap leather headcollar for a horse to wreck but my life is worth more than cheap tack and if I'm in trouble, I want to be able to rely on my equipment. I check my tack before every ride, and feel that anyone who wants to risk their lives in this way is welcome to do so - just don't expect me too...

BnBx
 
unicornleather said:
It makes me laugh the people who avoid anything Indian like the plague but buy the cheap saddlery on ebay that is labelled "English leather" yes it's English leather BUT the actual bridle etc is made in India using Indian methods of "craftsmanship" and Indian lorinery, (buckles,fittings etc) how many of you have had a "English" piece of saddlery that the buckles, hook studs, trigger hooks etc have broken, ever wondered why?
And the leather is so dry as it's been made here, shipped out on a boat to India, sat in their warehouse in the heat, then made into saddlery, then shipped back, then sat in a wholesalers warehouse for god knows how long, then in a shop or storage if online retailer finally you get it!
Leather loses moisture everyday whether it is used or not, so after it's first few months of life it is very dry and liable to break.I get "English leather" bridles in all the time to replace leather running and fixed loops, the originals are paper thin and bone dry.
The Indian saddles made in India using English leather again have Indian trees!
Now if you saw some of those you'd run amile!
Ever seen inside a Rhinegold synthetic saddle?
Believe me you wish you hadn't, Rhinegold is a name used by a certain wholesaler and the items are actually made yes, you guessed it, in India using either synthetic materials or German leather, it's one big con!
The wording on "English leather" saddlery is wrong, it IS English leather yes, but the way it is worded it gives people the impression it is made here instead of abroad. Don't let the retailers on ebay tell you otherwise!
I have to go out now but will be back later to answer any questions anyone has about it.
Oz :)
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I was looking for a martingale at a horsey shopping event last year and was shown lots of english leather, which felt horrible and not what my expectations were. I figured it was english leather but not english craftsmanship. Lots of people were paying over the odds for it, i just walked away.
 
What well known brands are still made in the UK? (And more importantly which aren't?)

I assume Jeffries still make their tack in the Uk?
 
shysmum said:
Oz, really interesting - more please :)

So it's not worth the fact that it's "English Leather" - what we should know about this stuff is that it is MADE in england, or more correctly made in INDIA. And how do you find this out ? Well atm, you have to go to each manufacturer, and ask them where the stuff is made. And you'd be shocked ::eek: That's IF they tell you the truth.

isn't it about time that the place of manufacture was a legal addition to the labelling ? I really think so, after this 6 month epic I've been on.

In fact, it would be interesting to contact all the sellers and ask them outright, and post the results ?
Click to expand...

Right I'm back, I will find you lot a typical Indian bridle and a typical "English leather" bridle but made possibly by the same little man out in india on ebay to show you, be back later, Oz
 
ngrace said:
"I will only buy reins with buckles, not billets"


Whys that?

(sorry if i'm having a dim moment!)
Click to expand...

Billets break far too easily. They are like having a buckle done up only on the tongue of the buckle, with none of the rest of the buckle to hold it. They are also tucked inside and you can't see if they are dangerous. With a buckle you can check the stitching and see if the tongue is bending dangerously. I've had billets break on reins but never a buckle. Event riders are recommended to use buckled bridles for safety reasons.
 
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First one is a show bridle supposedly made for the Rhinegold label and is pretending to be German, I have reported this ebayer time and time again to not only the wholesaler who sold them the bridle but ebay as well, what happened?
NOTHING of course, I got onto trading standards who investigated as it is fraud, what happened ,yes you guessed it NOTHING!
So I gave up look at the first pic

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BROWN-LEATHER...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item3367592f4d

Now look at this

http://snowhilltradesaddlery.co.uk/productpage.php?Product=207

Yes economy means Indian!!
Seems familar?

Now look at this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heritage-Padd...Horse_Wear_Equipment&var=&hash=item950396be6a

This is a "english leather" bridle made in India. Samuel Sharp are the manufactuers (tanners) of the leather NOT the makers of the bridle as some of the ebayers seem to think.IF you question the ebayers most of them haven't got a clue about where it comes from as they really are not in the trade so to speak or have been under the impression of it being made in england some have even stated in their auctions it is made in england and not just the leather made here, I soon got on to them and some don't believe me so what can you do?
I know I am right as I had an account with this wholesaler for 21 years or so and have been in the leather & saddlery trade for 23 years.
I have been banned from so many places because I have an opinion!!
I DO NOT like to see the public being conned by cheap imported saddlery that pretends to be made in england, it is very close to my heart as if you haven't already guessed!
I have tried to get the law changed to state WHERE the saddlery is made,not just the material it is made from but am banging my head against the wall.
Oz :)
 
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cptrayes said:
Billets break far too easily. They are like having a buckle done up only on the tongue of the buckle, with none of the rest of the buckle to hold it. They are also tucked inside and you can't see if they are dangerous. With a buckle you can check the stitching and see if the tongue is bending dangerously. I've had billets break on reins but never a buckle. Event riders are recommended to use buckled bridles for safety reasons.
Click to expand...

Billets are actually the leather pieces that go round the fitting whether they are buckles or hook studs, so you can have either hook stud billeted reins or buckled up billeted reins, Oz :)
 
Leather tanned abroad used to smell different (different tanning process maybe?) so maybe shipping English tanned but put together cheaply was seen as the way forward:confused:
I suppose you have to look out for English/wherever manufacture?
:oYou can tell its a long time since I have bought any tack:o
Some good info on this thread, thanks
 
cptrayes said:
Billets break far too easily. They are like having a buckle done up only on the tongue of the buckle, with none of the rest of the buckle to hold it. They are also tucked inside and you can't see if they are dangerous. With a buckle you can check the stitching and see if the tongue is bending dangerously. I've had billets break on reins but never a buckle. Event riders are recommended to use buckled bridles for safety reasons.
Click to expand...

Gutted, I much prefer stud billets! (purely for the looks...)
 
unicornleather said:
First one is a show bridle supposedly made for the Rhinegold label and is pretending to be German, I have reported this ebayer time and time again to not only the wholesaler who sold them the bridle but ebay as well, what happened?
NOTHING of course, I got onto trading standards who investigated as it is fraud, what happened ,yes you guessed it NOTHING!
So I gave up look at the first pic

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BROWN-LEATHER...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item3367592f4d

Now look at this

http://snowhilltradesaddlery.co.uk/productpage.php?Product=207

Yes economy means Indian!!
Seems familar?

Now look at this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heritage-Padd...Horse_Wear_Equipment&var=&hash=item950396be6a

This is a "english leather" bridle made in India. Samuel Sharp are the manufactuers (tanners) of the leather NOT the makers of the bridle as some of the ebayers seem to think.IF you question the ebayers most of them haven't got a clue about where it comes from as they really are not in the trade so to speak or have been under the impression of it being made in england some have even stated in their auctions it is made in england and not just the leather made here, I soon got on to them and some don't believe me so what can you do?
I know I am right as I had an account with this wholesaler for 21 years or so and have been in the leather & saddlery trade for 23 years.
I have been banned from so many places because I have an opinion!!
I DO NOT like to see the public being conned by cheap imported saddlery that pretends to be made in england, it is very close to my heart as if you haven't already guessed!
I have tried to get the law changed to state WHERE the saddlery is made,not just the material it is made from but am banging my head against the wall.
Oz :)
Click to expand...



I don't care where it comes from Heritage, Samual Sharp and Rhinegold bridles are absolutely great value for money and nothing like the cheap Asian imports either in the quality of their leather, the manufacture, or the smell.

I have no connection with any of them except that I own 5 bridles and they are all these suppliers.

I have had problems with rusty buckles on a Heritage girth but I have another bought later of the same type with great buckles so it was just one batch.

I DO agree with you about proper labelling though, there is a difference between made in England and made in India.
 
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Berpisc said:
Leather tanned abroad used to smell different (different tanning process maybe?) so maybe shipping English tanned but put together cheaply was seen as the way forward:confused:
I suppose you have to look out for English/wherever manufacture?
:oYou can tell its a long time since I have bought any tack:o
Some good info on this thread, thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, Indian leather smells more like pigskin, it has it's own grain characteristic, feel & look.
The dye they use on Indian is not fixed very well and leaches onto the horse and rider backside (jods) it is an anilene dye which is carceogenic (sp) so should not be on either rider or horse's skin for any length of time, nasty stuff!
I tried to stitch some indian leather (hand stitch) once years ago,like stitiching through hardboard I'd imagine, never stitched it since, I don't touch it!
If it's what you want at a price you can afford then go for it, I have sold it too over the years but I make sure the customer knows what they are getting,whether it's pure indian leather & indian made saddlery or english leather saddlery made in in india.
Oz :)
 
Oz can you answer a question that has bugged me for years? WHY do Indian/Indian bridles have such short throatlashes?
 
unicornleather said:
It makes me laugh the people who avoid anything Indian like the plague but buy the cheap saddlery on ebay that is labelled "English leather" yes it's English leather BUT the actual bridle etc is made in India using Indian methods of "craftsmanship" and Indian lorinery, (buckles,fittings etc) how many of you have had a "English" piece of saddlery that the buckles, hook studs, trigger hooks etc have broken, ever wondered why?
And the leather is so dry as it's been made here, shipped out on a boat to India, sat in their warehouse in the heat, then made into saddlery, then shipped back, then sat in a wholesalers warehouse for god knows how long, then in a shop or storage if online retailer finally you get it!
Leather loses moisture everyday whether it is used or not, so after it's first few months of life it is very dry and liable to break.I get "English leather" bridles in all the time to replace leather running and fixed loops, the originals are paper thin and bone dry.
The Indian saddles made in India using English leather again have Indian trees!
Now if you saw some of those you'd run amile!
Ever seen inside a Rhinegold synthetic saddle?
Believe me you wish you hadn't, Rhinegold is a name used by a certain wholesaler and the items are actually made yes, you guessed it, in India using either synthetic materials or German leather, it's one big con!
The wording on "English leather" saddlery is wrong, it IS English leather yes, but the way it is worded it gives people the impression it is made here instead of abroad. Don't let the retailers on ebay tell you otherwise!
I have to go out now but will be back later to answer any questions anyone has about it.
Oz :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I have had things break on my tack, had a clip on a rhinegold headcollar break and it wasn't really put under much strain, had keepers on bridles break as soon as I use them, the shop I returned it to told me it was me forcing the ends of the straps into them, I didn't use much force they just snapped in half.
I have had buckles break on bridles too, they were sold as Heritage off of ebay.
I would not touch any of these makes again and I think it is false economy as I am always replacing them so may as well save up and buy english made.
Great info, thanks unicorn, it makes sense now why my tack was always breaking!
 
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