PaulineW
Well-Known Member
Seen this happen on a yard. Horse was 13hh plus all day long but they got it down to 12.2 for certificate. Rosette hunters.
Cheeky/ridiculous posts you see on Facebook.
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Snowfilly
Well-Known Member
Fairly common, it goes on enough in showing that there’s an ‘accepted’ way of doing it. And for breed societies that require ponies to be under a certain height.
The nice way is teaching the pony to stand fully relaxed, head down, as relaxed as possible, can shave a bit off. Fresh but ethical trim helps too.
Beyond that, it’s exercise really hard just beforehand, don’t water for 24 hours, pare feet down that morning to the least sole possible and in the worst cases, prick the withers with a pin so the pony learns to cringe when you put something across it. And these are just the things I’ve heard talked about openly at shows.
I feel like height checks ought to be done at the end of a week when the horse is only in the care of the official staff but who would ever pay for their horse to be on full livery like that for a week? But it would do away with a lot of the cruelty in it, not to mention the cheating.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
A friend of mine arrived at a dealers yard to see a very tired looking horse trudging around the horse walker. Dealer happily explained "that's being shrunk for a height certificate” and told her it had been in the walker all night.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
Disgusting. I know it goes on, but my god.
The barbaric lengths that people will go to in the pursuit of a ribbon.
Scary thing is, there are probably forum members who partake in these practices.
The barbaric lengths that people will go to in the pursuit of a ribbon.
Scary thing is, there are probably forum members who partake in these practices.
Mari
Well-Known Member
I thought this!
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
It shows that non of you have had a horse measured recently.
Vets now have to do a full examination of the horse before they measure. If the horse shows sensitivity anywhere then they are not allowed to measure. That includes checking the feet.
The horse also has to be offered water in the presence of the vet 15 mins before measuring.
Any signs of exhaustion or sedation and the vet cannot measure them.
Back handers and dodgy vets are about the only way to get an over height horse in now.
That said many people are very bad at seeing height.
Ive had a pony who everyone said would be well over. I clipped the hair off his withers, had his shoes taken off and a normal trim the morning of the measurement, had him used to the stick so he was relaxed and he measured under by over 1cm
Vets now have to do a full examination of the horse before they measure. If the horse shows sensitivity anywhere then they are not allowed to measure. That includes checking the feet.
The horse also has to be offered water in the presence of the vet 15 mins before measuring.
Any signs of exhaustion or sedation and the vet cannot measure them.
Back handers and dodgy vets are about the only way to get an over height horse in now.
That said many people are very bad at seeing height.
Ive had a pony who everyone said would be well over. I clipped the hair off his withers, had his shoes taken off and a normal trim the morning of the measurement, had him used to the stick so he was relaxed and he measured under by over 1cm
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The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
I just stopped typing my reply, yours is spot on. I had B last measured in 2019, exactly the same regs then, she measured 0.7 under breed standard, I didnt cut any mane either.
Hearsay from posters further up is very daft to be keeping on repeating, what happened 30 or more years ago isn't permitted whatsoever.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
It's not hearsay, at all. I know for a fact that unfortunately these practices still go on...
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
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The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
Have you reported them?
humblepie
Well-Known Member
Could equally need height cert for jumping. Not necessarily showing.
PaulineW
Well-Known Member
I know what I saw.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
The practice I worked at years ago carried out LHC measurements on a fairly regular basis, and at the time was the only practice in the county to do so. around 15-20% of the horses the vet suspected that the owners had possibly done something unethical (e.g. horse cringing away from the stick, looking very tired etc) but it wasn't obvious enough to turn them away.
Unfortunately I would say that as much as 10% of the total number of horses presented the vets had to turn away for blatant ethical reasons, the most common being extreme dehydration and severe foot trimming (horses lame all round as a result); they were always horses that were clearly over-height. A small number would learn their lesson and return some weeks later to be measured properly. The majority we never saw again, and some of them must have got their certificates from somewhere as I later saw them contesting HOYS qualifiers (at the height the owner/trainer had wanted them to measure in at when first presented at the vets). They would have had to have travelled quite far to another registered measurement vet but I presume they thought that preferable to putting the horse's welfare first. If they found a vet who'd turn a blind eye is there now something in place to stop that happening?
I was last directly aware this was going on in around 2012; I am glad there are posters saying that this doesn't happen now and I hope that's the case.
Unfortunately I would say that as much as 10% of the total number of horses presented the vets had to turn away for blatant ethical reasons, the most common being extreme dehydration and severe foot trimming (horses lame all round as a result); they were always horses that were clearly over-height. A small number would learn their lesson and return some weeks later to be measured properly. The majority we never saw again, and some of them must have got their certificates from somewhere as I later saw them contesting HOYS qualifiers (at the height the owner/trainer had wanted them to measure in at when first presented at the vets). They would have had to have travelled quite far to another registered measurement vet but I presume they thought that preferable to putting the horse's welfare first. If they found a vet who'd turn a blind eye is there now something in place to stop that happening?
I was last directly aware this was going on in around 2012; I am glad there are posters saying that this doesn't happen now and I hope that's the case.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
There was a spell of horses travelling half way across the country to one measurer in particular around that time. That came to light and I think was dealt with - without googling the history I don’t have more info. My horse stood second to a much decorated champion horse that subsequently measured out by 6 cms. Unsurprisingly lost any respect for that person. I think if has improved since then.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Dodgy vets dont need abused ponies, they are happy to misread a stick.
I think it was about then (maybe slightly later) that a vet was struck off for dodgy measurements and nearly 1000 ponies remeasured. It was at that stage that they brought the new measures in such as vets having to offer water to the pony 15 mins before measuring.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Official measuring has undoubtedly improved. I think it would be naive to believe that abuses don't still happen when horses and ponies are measured within hours of arriving at the measuring place when there is so much money at stake if a pony measures in or over.
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