Cheltenham gag

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Paint it Lucky

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Does anyone on here use a cheltenham/english gag? If so why? What sort of horse does it suit? How effective is it?
I am considering trying one on my horse for xc as he can be very strong but hates bits with leverage, ie. dutch gag, pelham, and bolts in them! Therefore I need a bit that would be effective at holding him in a controlled pace that would not upset him.
 
Running gags - so either cheltenham, balding, duncan or nelson being the big 4, are all very good for horses with a low head carriage that tend to bowl along on the forehand

They are not good for something that already pokes its nose in the air to evade as it either won't work or will encourage rearing.

If possible I would try and get hold of these with a double joint or waterford mouthpeice. Single joints often stab horses in the roof of the mouth, so you won't really know whether this or the gag action is raising the head!
 
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The cheltenham gag pulls on both the mouth and the headpiece, IMO far worser than a bog standard dutch or pelham??

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Incorrect - the poll pressure from the long shank of a dutch gag gives a mechanical advantage which far exceeds that of a running gag.

Pelhams are not so bad for the leverage and rely more on the curb action.

Also note that both the pelham and the continental / dutch gags (which aren't gags at all) both encourage a lower head position.
 
I am looking for a bit that would stop my horse but without pulling his head down as this makes him panic and bolt (he likes to see where he is going). My trainer's suggested a cheltenham, I am not sure so wanted people's oppinions.
 
What bit and mouthpiece is he currently in?
What does he do when he gets away from you?

Head up or head down, poking the noe or not. Does he feel like he has hold of the bit in the mouth? What happens when you half halt?
 
I used one for a while with 2 reins to xc - but the little bugger still p****d off with me in it. He's in a simple kk snaffle with lozenge now - and it's the best he's ever jumped. Sometimes going the other way is better. The cheltenham gag I used had a nathe mouthpiece so it was quite a strong bit but kinder in the mouth - if there's such a thing.
 
He is currently in a hanging cheek happymouth snaffle with a roller, he is fine in this for flatwork but sometimes when jumping/hacking he gets abit excited/worried in canter and goes very fast, sometimes galloping. He puts his head up, though not overly high, he sets his jaw so it feels the bit has no effect. He does not notice my half halts!

He wears a running martingale to stop his head going too high. I bought him as a persistent bolter (I know I am mad!), he now very rarely bolts with me thanks to months of retraining, and I have found that softening the contact is the best way to stop him usually if he does go as pulling the reins just makes him run faster! I intially hacked him in draw reins a lot as he could not bolt in these. He now no longer needs them for hacking as he is obedient enough to listen to me the majority of the time. The cheltenham gag/ other bit would be for xc jumping as I have just started to teach him this and he is reverting back to his old bolting habits whilst doing it. I will not jump him in draw reins (please don't tell me to, I hate doing it), so want a bit (if one exists), that has a similar effect as these seem to be the only things he'll listen to.
 
Ah ha - from that I would try a kineton noseband or nasen schutz

The kineton will apply pressure to the nose when you ask for a stop, so might stop him clenching hold of the bit

The nasen schutz (a peice of rope) attaches on the flash loop of a noseband and gives you a second set of reins acting purely off the nose.

Might sound a little offbeat, but you need something just to get back his attention.
 
I am just about to try one of those on my boy for XC. I have been riding him in a rubber pelham but he tends to lower his head and try to take off! Either that or he tucks his chin into his chest and goes behind it still taking off. I have tried a waterford and a dutch gag both of which he hates. He has a very sensitive mouth but gets rather on his forehand and bowls along out of control! It is not down to his flatwork as he works well on the flat and he show jumps in a myler snaffle with hooks. SOmeone suggested i try a rubber covered cheltenham gag so that is my next step.
 
It lifts the head and is ideal for horses that put their heads down to 'go' or become strong with the head down. I used one with a previous horse who had learned (prior to me having him) that he could put his head down and bugger off. I found it very effective and like most bits, it only really comes into use when either the horse or rider 'takes a pull'.
 
CotswoldSJ, thankyou that is a good idea but I've already tried a hackamore on him and he bolted as soon as he felt the nose presure, do you think he would do the same in these nosebands? I have considered a kineton but am reluctant to try it ncase he bolts again. He has a noticable indent in his nose which I beleive is from having a headcollar left on too long as a youngster hence why he hates nose pressure.
 
Without knowing your horse in detail I couldn't really say

I have cured many bolters though - one with a scamperdale pelham (no idea why that worked, but has strongest curb of any pelham) and the others have generally been through using quite nasty double mouthed bits (barry gag).

These are not nice bits, and should really only be used by experience horsepeople.

The barry gag is designed to totally crush the tongue whilst also being a running gag, its definitely a last resort and is most often seen in polo (you cannot maintain a contact with this bit).

I won't tolerate bolters as especially on the road as its plain dangerous.

My horses are all very boring now and all go in plain snaffles without nosebands!
 
I found a cheltenham gag useful on Murphy as he gets strong out x-country or hunting and puts his head down, tanks and bucks. I tried a french link dutch gag on the second ring and he was worse so I got a cheltenham and rode in two reins as he is a dressage horse really so I didn't want to ruin his mouth. Found the CG v. good at raising his head stopping him from getting on his forehand and tanking or bucking. He's better now after a few sessions and I now hunt him in a Fulmer Snaffle, flash and Market Harborough. This seems to be very effective, but I don't know why?!
 
I have a problem with my mare when in company (fun rides etc ) as she puts her head down thus ruling out my much loved kimblewick so my instructor suggested & lent me a cheltenham gag which did the trick It only goes up in her mouth when she takes a pull which then brings her back under control. Before anyone says for me to work on her schooling - she is so very well behaved in a menage (back to a NS snaffle) but the red mist decends when in a group ! I would give it a try but take care as I have been warnd that some horses can rear with it !
 
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