Chestnut mares

Are chestnut mares more tempramental than other horses?

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Wagtail

Wagtail

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Comments on another thread prompted me to start this thread. Is there any truth in the saying that chestnut mares are temperamental?
 
I have cared for hundreds of horses and have not noticed that chestnuts are any worse than any others. In fact of all the chestnut mares I have known, only one was 'quirky' but she didn't cause me any trouble. The nastiest horse I have ever known was a black mare. The sweetest horse I have ever known is a chestnut mare. The most highly strung and troublesome horses I have known have been bays, though the law of averages say that they would be as bay is the most common colour. My best horse ever was a bay.
 
An article

http://7bigspoons.com/stress/fire-red-head-metabolic/

A paper

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.10...&uid=2&uid=4&uid=83&uid=63&sid=21104227183987

I'm not at work so can't access the pubmed articles based on human research and I can't seem to find the cross species study on google.

The research has been done and it has been biologically proven. Some 'red heads' may handle stress better as they have developed coping strategies. They will still have high serum cortisol levels though that show the physiological response to stress.

It's not 'discrimination' as someone on the other thread said - it's biology. Knowing the biology allows us to help our redheads :)

Eta - it would be interesting to know whether heterozygote blacks show higher stress levels due to having one 'red gene'
 
Fides said:
An article

http://7bigspoons.com/stress/fire-red-head-metabolic/

A paper

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.10...&uid=2&uid=4&uid=83&uid=63&sid=21104227183987

I'm not at work so can't access the pubmed articles based on human research and I can't seem to find the cross species study on google.

The research has been done and it has been biologically proven. Some 'red heads' may handle stress better as they have developed coping strategies. They will still have high serum cortisol levels though that show the physiological response to stress.

It's not 'discrimination' as someone on the other thread said - it's biology. Knowing the biology allows us to help our redheads :)

Eta - it would be interesting to know whether heterozygote blacks show higher stress levels due to having one 'red gene'
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Thanks. I'll take a look. I know some red cocker spaniels can get rage syndrome. But I was thinking about horses. What about bright bays? they are very red.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks. I'll take a look. I know some red cocker spaniels can get rage syndrome. But I was thinking about horses. What about bright bays? they are very red.
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It's not the colouration as such but the gene combination.

Eta - it was actually the 'rage' issue that originally started the study and it got expanded to other breeds and then animals.
 
I have a four year old, chestnut mare that came out of racing in October and I would say she is pretty chilled most of the time however when something upsets her you know about it. Be that as it may 90% of the time she is as cool as a cucumber and definitely not a stereotypical chestnut mare.
 
Fides said:
It's not the colouration as such but the gene combination.

Eta - it was actually the 'rage' issue that originally started the study and it got expanded to other breeds and then animals.
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That research is on wild boars. If it's the gene combination then it could not also apply to horses because different genes are involved in their colour than for wild boars. I think it refers to the colour pigment having a particular chemical make up. It may be that the pigment may be the same chemical across species, I don't know.
 
Wagtail said:
That research is on wild boars. If it's the gene combination then it could not also apply to horses because different genes are involved in their colour than for wild boars. I think it refers to the colour pigment having a particular chemical make up. It may be that the pigment may be the same chemical across species, I don't know.
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I can't find the other articles as I am not at work but it has been investigated cross species. I hate google :(
 
I have a liver chestnut mare and she is the most highly strung horse I have ever owned..once she has got uptight she is very slow to calm down ....I have had 2 mares before and have always preferred mares but this one has made me question my choice( have had her for 12 years and is now 23 and still looney!!). I don't know if the colour has anything to do with it though...
 
Sexist, colourist rubbish IMO. I judge each horse as an individual.

The stereotype drives me mad as I've had people go on about it for years. If CM jumped at some flappy plastic, it was always 'well you would buy a chestnut mare', their black based gelding has a fit at the same plastic and it's 'poor boy was frightened.' *sigh*

I did read the links to the study on boars, but the way that a horse is trained, brought up etc, will have far more effect than the pigment in it's fur.

What about chestnut geldings/stallions, or chestnut mares + a modifying gene (eg palomino)?
 
We've got a 7 year old ISH chesnut mare and she's the sweetest mare to handle, complete opposite to our other mare who can be an utter diva at times!
 
I can't think of a single chestnut that stood out for being hard work over the years, nor any fiery red head humans either. Quite the opposite if I think about it. I don't buy it personally.
 
I know a hand reared chestnut mare, according to stereotype she should be a nightmare, but is the opposite. She is forward going, but calm & safe, 7 now & have known her 2 yrs,never put a foot wrong.
 
Interesting thing to note - red-headed people have been proven to experience pain differently from non-red-headed people. It has been linked to the 'temperamental red-head' myth.

Edited - I didn't read there whole thread and the genetics was already discussed.

However my personal experience of chestnuts (in general not just mares) is that they are much more temperamental. However that is anecdotal and probably more down to individuals than colour.
 
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khalswitz said:
Interesting thing to note - red-headed people have been proven to experience pain differently from non-red-headed people. It has been linked to the 'temperamental red-head' myth.
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That was one of the articles I read - it was a dentistry one.
 
3 of my 4 best horses have been chestnut and 2 were mares so for me they are fine. you can get nutters in any colour and I know of far more darker coloured as in bay brown and black than chestnuts
 
I have known some lovely chestnut mares, never come across a bad one.

The most quick tempered, unpleasant I have encountered were black geldings.

I think it was Graham Fletcher who said he'd rather have a chestnut mare than a black gelding.

I do have a black gelding, he's a sweetie.
 
I have two chestnut mares - mother and daughter. Mother is the most obliging horse you will ever meet. Daughter is named Diva ........
 
I have a semi- stero-typical chestnut mare! She's fine to deal with intill something upsets her & then you have to pretend she's not rearing/ jogging into you otherwise she will get worse! She's also a thoroughbred so half of her quick reactions are related to that. She is a grumpy madam sometimes. She is getting much better with age at nearly 12 now!
 
I have 6 horses, 4 of which are chestnut mares. One of these is my beloved Asha who is the most generous horse you could ever meet. Just bringing her back into work after a year off at the moment , first time on and she didn't put a hoof wrong. Her daughter, also chestnut, although only 2, is so chilled out its untrue. My daughters horse is a TB chestnut mare, again very easy. The last one is a yearling, Time will tell, with this one.

so in my experience, you can't beat chestnut mares
 
I've only ever had good experiences with chestnut mares too. And the only horse that ever left me cold was indeed a black gelding!
 
I have a chestnut gelding who is very hot and who has a massive temper tantrum if he doesn't get his own way - but that may be to do with his sharp bloodlines and being late cut as being chestnut

I am currently starting to back 4 mares at work, all homebred and lightly handled. The chestnut filly was a oversensitive diva, but is now loving working - but on her terms and without any pressure. She is by Dimaggio though

The one that is trickiest to deal with is a blavk mare who is quiet and easy until pushed and then she's stroppy. She's got more stroppy the more she's worked. She's by Sandro Hit
 
Looking back further than I want to admit, I would say that the red heads are more likely be sensitive than the other colours, though of course there is a big overlap because of all the other factors involved.

That sensitivity, in mares and geldings, in my experience, produces more nappy or temperamental horses than those of other colours, and if you add the additional sensitivity of a mare into the equation then I do believe that a chestnut mare is a bit more likely than any other colour to give the owner some issues to deal with.

But that only means that two in a hundred chestnut mares have to be tricky, compared with one in a hundred bay mares, for them to be twice as bad.

True black (no paler hair at all other than white markings) horses have a reputation in some places for being exceptionally stubborn. I wonder if that one is true?
 
cptrayes said:
Looking back further than I want to admit, I would say that the red heads are more likely be sensitive than the other colours, though of course there is a big overlap because of all the other factors involved.

That sensitivity, in mares and geldings, in my experience, produces more nappy or temperamental horses than those of other colours, and if you add the additional sensitivity of a mare into the equation then I do believe that a chestnut mare is a bit more likely than any other colour to give the owner some issues to deal with.

But that only means that two in a hundred chestnut mares have to be tricky, compared with one in a hundred bay mares, for them to be twice as bad.

True black (no paler hair at all other than white markings) horses have a reputation in some places for being exceptionally stubborn. I wonder if that one is true?
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This. Plus temperamental isn't necessarily a problem - some people will class it as 'character' whilst others would describe it as 'difficult'.

I have definitely met more temperamental chestnut mares (and some geldings) than any other colour, but I have also met more very ungenerous black geldings than other colours. In fact I can name three chestnut mares and one black gelding on my yard alone right now who fit the stereotypes!
 
I am a red head I am probably the most laid back person you will ever meet. There are some genetic things I will agree with the scientists about we do bleed more, we do more readily get diabetes, we do have a marginally higher risk of having babies with neural tube defects, we do have a greater risk of anaemia and having malabsorption of B12 but as to pain no
I walked about on a smashed knee for 5 months, broke my ankle at the same time and caught the naughty pony treated his wounds went home had a shower and shaved my legs before going to A&E. Never go to the Doctors unless commanded to do so and so far have not had many days off doing the horses in 50 years
As to temper It takes long hours of torment to get me to react but by god watch it if you do
Chestnut mares are supposed to have more sensitive skin and so be more easily trained and not to tolerate abuse because of it but I have had a few and they have been wonderful
 
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