Chicken and egg; hind limb lameness and backs

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foxy1

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So can one cause the other and vice versa?

I was under the impression that hind limb lameness can cause back soreness but having had my vet look at him, vet is pointing to the back.

My horse is toe dragging with the left hind and the fetlock is filled, but no lamer after flexion test.

Vet wants to bone scan but with a question mark over whether the insurance will pay, I'm hesitating.....

Any ideas/ thoughts anyone?
 
Hmmmm, my mare has recently been diagnosed with bone spavins, she had similar symptoms to yours but was only 1/10th lame on a circle on concrete, She also got no worse with flexion tests so we wondered back too but nerve blocks and xrays showed up the v early spavins. Have you had the leg nerve blocked? I'd want to do that before anything expensive tbh!
 
foxy1 said:
So can one cause the other and vice versa?

I was under the impression that hind limb lameness can cause back soreness but having had my vet look at him, vet is pointing to the back.

My horse is toe dragging with the left hind and the fetlock is filled, but no lamer after flexion test.

Vet wants to bone scan but with a question mark over whether the insurance will pay, I'm hesitating.....

Any ideas/ thoughts anyone?
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You're right with the starting point - it's difficult to tell which came first. Although IME the hind limb lameness is generally to blame if there is one. (back problems have never caused a fetlock swelling that I've seen though ;))

Personally, not sure that I'd leap in straight with bone scanning, I think insurance complanies are looking for a good reason that they need to lay out money for this particular test...and I don't think there's a good enough reason so far from the history you are describing - did the vet palpate the back and say it was exceptionally sore? Are there any lumps along side? Problems mounting or dismounting? Is the horse worse when ridden? And finally, (very important from the vet's perspective) is the horse and ogre with needles??;)
If not, then I think you'll find insurers particularly would be much more likely to settle the whole claim is it's done logically and this such as spavin ruled out first!!! :)

Anyway, check the vet doesn't have a very good reason before doubting the decision...:o

Good luck

Imogen
 
Vet ran the handle end of his hoof testers down the horses' back (I mentioned this on another thread); he is a TB and very fine skinned so needless to say he leapt 10 ft in the air.

He said because the horse was no lamer with flexion tests then it must be something high up, pelvis, SI, arthritis in spine etc. However, in my eyes he is bi-laterally lame behind, worse on the left hind, squared off toes but more so left hind, filled fetlock left hind..... seems most likely spavins to me. He also has some bandadge marks on left hind which makes me suspect possibly an old injury, hence the puffy fetlock? although could well be a red herring.

He also said his vertebrae in his back seem to be very close together and advised me to lunge him for a month in side reins to open them up, but I don't want to lunge a lame horse without a proper diagnosis in case I make him worse.

This is my daughters horse and very much loved by us all. He is an absolute saint to handle and ride, not worse when ridden, and no problem to tack up, mount, dismount and fine with needles. There are no lumps on his spine/back.

I want to go for a second opinion to another practice but I really don't want to upset my vet either. I don't feel he is giving me any reasonable options though. :(
 
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IMO from all the lameness episodes i have come across in my life it points to a pelvic fracture, and the filling in the legs will come from that injury too, and the soreness when checking the back with the hoof testers (thoroughbred or not any horse is going to jump if its back is sore) get it scanned or xrayed, then box rest, bute if uncomfortable and wait for nature to do its thing and heal, all will be fine again in about 2-3 months. When it is healed if it was a pelvic fracture you should lunge it on both sides to build up the muscle again that will be muscle wastage from the pelvic fracture. Good luck!!
 
If it were me, I'd have one or two sessions of physio for the back pain. IME, once the horse's back is freed up either, occasionally, problem solved or, more often, the lameness is more obvious so the vet has something to work with.
 
foxy1 said:
With a horse with kissing spines would you expect a reaction when you firmly pressed the spine?
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Yes. But not always. Defo with the hoof testers though ;)

beeswax said:
IMO from all the lameness episodes i have come across in my life it points to a pelvic fracture, and the filling in the legs will come from that injury too, and the soreness when checking the back with the hoof testers (thoroughbred or not any horse is going to jump if its back is sore) get it scanned or xrayed, then box rest, bute if uncomfortable and wait for nature to do its thing and heal, all will be fine again in about 2-3 months. When it is healed if it was a pelvic fracture you should lunge it on both sides to build up the muscle again that will be muscle wastage from the pelvic fracture. Good luck!!
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Oh dear. That's a bit of a leap....I can't say i've known a pelvic fracture cause swollen fetlock(s), more likely rest would cause static filling IMO.
Xrays are generally not able to image the pelvis except for in a very few cases which are on the wing tips (don't generally cause this type of lameness) or at a couple of hospitals which have the type of machine that is able to create enough power to penetrate with whole abdomen and pelvis when the horse is under GA. Ultrasound would be the best way to rule this out.

However, let's look at this from another angle. Pelvic fracture not so common other than following trauma....hock spavin exceptionally common. So I'd probably go for the most - least likely in that order if it were me doing the work up. ;)

Flame_ said:
If it were me, I'd have one or two sessions of physio for the back pain. IME, once the horse's back is freed up either, occasionally, problem solved or, more often, the lameness is more obvious so the vet has something to work with.
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Not a bad idea at all and certainly unlikely to do any harm

Imogen
 
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