Children, their ponies and the snaffle debate

[Patches]

Why is it that sometimes I feel we're obsessed with seeing our children always riding in a bog standard jointed snaffle whatever the pony?

I was thinking, I've had quite a few bits now for Patches and use differing ones depending on what I'm doing that day...ie I need more brakes sometimes. However, Hannah only has her snaffle for Tweenie.

I have sat on Tweenie once. I have to say she's the strongest "horse" I've sat on (all of 11.2) and even I struggled to hold her. She was having a paddy and I'd gotten on as Hannah was whingeing that she was scared.

When we went on the pleasure ride before Christmas, Tweenie got a bit excited at one point and did her usual mini-Arab impression....tail up, head up, snorting and prancing. This really worries Hannah as she simply cannot hold Tweenie and when you're on open land (as we were) I can totally understand it worrying her, it would me. You can see she's got hold of the bit and she's heading for the off. Much like hyped up eventers in the start box XC! It does affect her confidence for doing some things as she knows that she cannot stop her and yet on the other hand, she wants to join us at these events. Some days Tweenie will be a little lamb, other times she's excitable.

So, would it be really wrong of me to seek another bitting arrangement for Tweenie?

She was in a riding school for children for a couple of years (maybe more not sure) before we had her so I'm assuming she will be a little dead in the mouth to some degree being ridden repeatedly by beginners...totally to be expected.

Harley, Hannah's instructor, has ridden Tweenie too and also commented on how strong she is and we've both since marvelled with how well Hannah does control her, given how she is. Now I know I could perhaps sell Tweenie and buy something quieter, but Tweenie is turning out to be nice little allrounder and the fact that I can hack out with Hannah in tow is worth alot to both of us. Tweenie is absolutely bombproof on the roads and in the school (occasionally a bit nappy when in season). It's just when on open land or bridleways bordered by open land.

Any ideas on the subject of why parents often stick to only a snaffle and if you think I should have a go at changing the bit...what do you think I should try her in?

 

[Bex7]

If the 10 yr old is sensible and understands/is empathetic to the new bit then I cannot see the problem.

x

 

[LauraBR]

I'd sooner see a careful 10 year old with soft hands riding with a stronger bit than a careless rough handed adult.

 

[sojeph]

Have you tried a hanging cheek snaffle?
I think people just worry that a child may not appreciate the severity of a bit in the wrong hands but if your child rides quietly then I would try something different afterall your childs safety is what really, really matters isn't it?!

 

[Sooty]

Quite a few of the stronger ponies at our local riding school were ridden in kimblewicks. TBH, it isn't the bit that does the damage, it's what's at the other end of the reins. Lots of ponies are pretty hard mouthed, and if she is hard to hold then it might well be worth trying a stronger bit.

 

[Ecila]

If the child is capable and understands what bits do then i see it no different to an adult riding in a differnt bit. After all it doesn't help the horse or pony to have any one hanging onto the horses mouth all the time....

 

[ladylisa]

Maybe try a bit bank and try out a few bits and see what your daughter and her pony feel better in, maybe trying a hanging cheek and working upwards till you find something suitable with the advise from the owner of the bit bank.

 

[TinselRider]

As long as the child is not heavy in the hand I don't see how a change of bit would do any harm.......its like saying all showjumpers should be ridden in gags/ pelhams..........what works for one horse/pony wont necessarily work well for another.
I'd rather ride around in a bit that suits MY horse and know that I have controll.....let people say/ think what they want to at the end of the day it is you that spends everyday with your daughter and her pony ......not them.

 

[ThomasTank]

I would definately change the bit. your daughter is learning to hang on for dear life and will have hard hands and prob lose all confidence. stuff what other people think..... its not their pony or their child

 

[Dotilas]

I think that as long as the child understands the use of the bit and can ride nicely, I would change the bit to something stronger. I do remember reading an article on bitting a while back about how constant pulling in a snaffle does more damage than using a stronger bit quietly.

Maybe try a wilkie snaffle? You can compete BD in them, and they have a similar action to the 3-ring gag. They were designed for ponies who should have the 3-ring but their heads were too small and the rings of the three ring were devilishly bad looking.

 

[Clodagh]

My mum only allowed me to ride in a snaffle. TBH the number of times I vanished over the horizon its a miracle I still ride!

I'd go stronger, like Sooty says kimblewicks are pretty good. I would also recommend a neckstrap, even if you put a loose running martingale on (for childs appearance!!). Pulling back on one really helps to slow the horse and also ensures the child can keep their weight back and hands steady.

 

[LauraBR]

[ QUOTE ]
your daughter is learning to hang on for dear life and will have hard hands and prob lose all confidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

What absolute rubbish, not sure how you have deduced that from what Patches wrote

 

[teapot]

Strongest pony in RS was in a kimblewick - he's not in a wilkie and is going much better from what I've seen/been told.

It's not the bit, it's the hands holding it.

 

[Patches]

Exactly. I'd put Hannah's safety over Tweenie being in a stronger bit any time. I can't believe I've never thought about it before.

Hannah is actually quite a quiet rider for the most part unless Tweenie is really pulling and very excitable at which time she does hang on for dear life....and I can't blame her. I would think I'd want to haul if all else failed too.

This last 12 months as she's grown (she was 9 the week before Christmas) she's gotten far stronger in her leg and seat aids. Before this she was more flappy than actually legging her on effectively....same can be said for alot of youngsters as little barrel ribbed Section A's aren't that easy for them to get their legs around are they? The consequence of this is that she relies far less on more obvious rein aids these days as it is.

She has had her in a hanging cheek snaffle for a while when she first started riding her as I was worried about her pulling the bit through Tweenie's mouth. She's got such a tiny mouth and the bit rings on her particular eggbutt snaffle are tiny so as not to bury her face.

She can ride her in a snaffle at shows...on grass in the school area of the field at home. It's just wide open spaces...which when I think about it is the exact same problem most of us have with our horses.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I'd ditto trying the hanging cheek snaffle.

IMHO if the pony was strong when excited and that was all that was scaring her i would change bits if only to give her a little more confidence. An 11.2 to a small child is like a 16.2 strength wise to us. Would you ride an excited 16.2 on a pleasure ride in a plain snaffle??
A hanging cheek gives just that little extra brakes, working on poll pressure.

A child who only has the use of a snaffle on a strong pony will just pull and pull, and learn to hang onto the mouth. but given something a bit more effective will teach her to soften her hands and may help the situation all round, so the pony won't be fighting her and vice versa.

 

[wizzi901]

pelham all the way!

 

[Patches]

I know what you're saying but this is only a problem we have with more open spaces. It's NEVER a problem with general schooling and hacking on the roads. So to that end, no, I wouldn't say she's learning to ride with hard hands at all.

It's just we have some bridleways that are bordered by open fields. Even though Tweenie is following the gravel bridleway, she gets excited by the open space...as I say...not always...but sometimes and I do worry about Hannah's safety.

Yes, when she is playing up, Hannah possibly does almost hold on for dear life but no more than I've seen other riders (myself included) every once in while struggle with their horses in open spaces. It's a rarity though as we don't often take her into those situations.

I just feel that as Hannah is getting older, she wants to do more with her pony and we've already promised her she can keep Tweenie for one final summer before moving onto something larger. It's just a shame sometimes that I feel I have to leave her behind when I go out and enjoy something at a slightly faster pace.

 

[lillie07]

Wilkies arnt BD legal. Hanging cheek is very similar in action/ severity though.

A bit is only as severe as the hands on the end of the reins. I cant stand to see childrens ponies bitted/ gadgeted up to the eye balls unessesarily but at the same time the most important thing is your daughters safety- I would definately give it a go- im sure the pony will let you know if its not happy!!

 

[Patches]

To be honest I don't care if what bit I choose is BD legal as Hannah doesn't compete Tweenie.

She does the occasional showing class but Tweenie has always been ok in her usual snaffle in this situation. Infact even with all the other horses about and most shows being on grass in the summer, Tweenie ALWAYS behaves impeccably.

I have had her in hanging cheek snaffle once but I can't say that we noticed much difference....although I must say, I didn't ride her myself in the hanging cheek.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

What sort of snaffle is she in ATM??

 

[Patches]

Plain stainless steel, eggbutt single jointed snaffle. A diddy one...only 4". Bless her!

 

[Broodle]

Echo others that you know your pony and your child - so you should of course do what you think best. Agree that a hanging cheek snaffle would be a good first step, or how about a straight bar pelham if you want to avoid prolonged nutcracker action?

Also, not what you asked - and am sure you've thought of this, but - can you or another adult take Tweenie out to some open spaces fairly regularly to try to make the experience less exciting for her?

 

[PapaFrita]

Kids here often ride in curbs as they're always on horses which would be far too strong for them if they decided not to stop. There is no stigma attached to riding in a curb, for instance, and people generally accept that if you've got a certain bit it's because it's the one that does the job best!
I don't recall ever seeing a child yank a horse in the mouth, regardless of the bit!

 

[ThomasTank]

It wasnt meant as a put down. One can imagine the senario of a small child on an exited pony in a snaffle mouth. It would be natural for them to pull and hang on for dear life in that situation. and eventually lose their confidence coz they wouldnt be having much fun if they are worrying that they will soon dissapear to the next county. Perhaps a different bit for those occasions.

 

[Patches]

I would absolutely love to do that with her Katie_A but she's just so little and there's absolutely nothing there in front of you (or behind you for that matter) when you're 5ft 4 and pony is a very fine boned Section A...not to mention I might not notice how bad she can be as I would obviously be able to over power her more so than Hannah (well that's my theory... lol)

She really is a mini-Arab in appearance bless her.

As I say, Hannah will happily canter her across grass in a marked off area of our fields, it's just wider open spaces which we encounter on the better hacking routes.

 

[teapot]

She reminds me so much of my instructor's daugter's pony. Had the same issues with you - fine in the school, but strong out hacking.

They eventually went for the wilkie and don't think they've had any problems. She's been out doing everything with pony

 

[Broodle]

Awwwwww.... she is just georgeous, and your daughter looks lovely on her. See what you mean about her size - lol!

 

[Patches]

Thanks Katie.

She's iccle and then some!!!! Not even sure I could fit my botty in that 15" saddle!!!!

Mind you, if she took off with me, I'd just have stoppers put on my shoes and used my heels to brake! LMAO!

 

[Agent XXX999]

Now have images of very small child with very big biceps...would def. change the bit. Probably to a dutch gag on the second ring...

 

[Patches]

Hmmm....if you look at this pic of her, you'll see she's only very petite.

She has a 4" bit and wears a Shetland Pony size bridle. Diddy face. A standard gag would absolutely bury her petite face. I'm assuming that's why some have recommended a wilkie snaffle which is something I will definitely look into.

Thanks for your suggestion though....oh and you're right. Hannah has HUGE biceps for such a wee small child.