Chris Cox Natural Horsemanship on H&C TV - yuck!

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MagicMelon

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Am I the only one to not like his methods at all? Everytime I try watching him on H&C TV, I have to turn it off after 5 mins as he irritates me so much! Right now Im watching him pelting a grand prix dressage horse with a rope - all he's doing is stressing the poor horse out. He comes across very arrogant and looks to be happy to scare his horse into submission!
 
this sounds like a repeat, i watched this a few weeks back and completely disagreed with his methods! i never did watch the outcome at the end of the episodes.
 
Well I have to say I love his methods and have used his one rein stop twice to great effect. It really has saved me from harm and I even wrote and thanked him for such a wonderful tv series. He is similar to Clinton Anderson, Craig Cameron, Larry from California, pat parelli etc. Thank god for sky tv for showing us something completely different from the usual same old same of English ways and sit up and kick on technique advised for just about every ill that you come across on a horse, not to mention a good slap with a whip for good measure. To see him sort that resentful spoilt dressage horse out with sound ground work and a method that clearly worked was a breath of fresh air. Loving it loving it loving it.
 
padderpaws said:
not to mention a good slap with a whip for good measure.
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The practitioners you mentioned slap there horses about a fair amount - an awful lot more than most horseman - if you actually watch them, they just use ropes and carrot sticks to do it whilst telling you they are being friendly, kind, gentle and natural to the horse.
 
My partner likes to take the mic out of him "hi, I'm chris cox, I like a horse that's rideable" "if he doesn't stop I just bring him around, just bring him around" "this horse is what's known as a "mumper - a magnificent jumper" classic! I LOVE Team Fredericks. Did anyone see that little girl on her pony? Too cute!
 
I founded the P.I.P clique - the Piss off Parelli Clique.

And this man can do the same. Horses are not our friends, well, they are but there is no need for all this crap! Horses and humans can live in perfect harmony without cucumber sticks round pens and DVD's!

These methods tend to look impressive and work a bit when the 'professionals' do it.... But what happens when Chantelle and her pals attempt this with Rocky the riding school pony? It'll cause the animal distress!

Month roberts, Kelly marks ... YES! that's just commin sense and a rare touch and genuine understanding.... Without aubergine sticks!

There's nothing wrong with the good old British way of riding / training. Most British are gentlefolk, and we treat our horses the same.

(cept us Scots as you know were all red headed barbarians in skirts up here....)
 
padderpaws said:
Well I have to say I love his methods and have used his one rein stop twice to great effect. It really has saved me from harm and I even wrote and thanked him for such a wonderful tv series. He is similar to Clinton Anderson, Craig Cameron, Larry from California, pat parelli etc. Thank god for sky tv for showing us something completely different from the usual same old same of English ways and sit up and kick on technique advised for just about every ill that you come across on a horse, not to mention a good slap with a whip for good measure. To see him sort that resentful spoilt dressage horse out with sound ground work and a method that clearly worked was a breath of fresh air. Loving it loving it loving it.
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Yes Great trainer I think he one of the best if not the best firm but fair and ends up with relaxed, well bridled and confedent horses ..
who cares what the average English numpty thinks im realy not intrested when you see how so called english trained horses behave and need to be constanly pushed or pulled by their perspiring riders ...
 
not seen this guy and mmm prefer not to = my hero is micael peace hes a star so kind so understanding and as he says look at the world through your horses eyes - mmmmm a good good person who understands horses are not machines and they do get it wrong like we do :)
 
I dislike loud/rough horsemanship - I think it's ugly. It isn't necessary to be loud and rough to train a horse to be compliant, responsive and willing. I'm all for firm, fair handling - but one can be firm and fair in a quiet way, rather than an aggressive and bullying way.

So are there really no quiet (probably a better word than 'gentle') NH trainers?

Maybe it's the loud ones that are most likely to get the limelight.
 
I am always interested and intrigued by other trainers methods, there is usually something to be learnt by them, however I get a bit tired of watching some of these wiggling and slapping them with a rope, there is no need for it all the time.
 
Personally I've reached the conclusion that Monty Roberts doesn't fall in line with my understanding of NH, for a variety of reasons but too much pressure is probably the main one.

Other trainers have vaguely similar approaches, but struggle to be unique, which of course with NH you cannot be, as the principles are all formed from a common root.

Therefore, preference comes down to whether or not you like the trainer themselves. If you don't fair enough, if you do, ok.
 
Every trainer (NH and traditional horsemanship) have some good to teach and some crap they pass on.
I think you should learn as much as possable from as many people as possable and then apply what you think is usefull for you and yours- no one trainer is perfect and noone knows your own animal better then you.

As for teh things that seem rubbish at the time of watching/reading,it might be just the thing on another horse or it could simply comfirm your views on what not to do but learning other methods is never a bad thing :)
 
Pale Rider said:
Other trainers have vaguely similar approaches, but struggle to be unique, which of course with NH you cannot be, as the principles are all formed from a common root.

Therefore, preference comes down to whether or not you like the trainer themselves. If you don't fair enough, if you do, ok.
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There are differences in how the NH ideas are realized in practice, the degree of 'feel' and the skill of execution. One can prefer the quieter, less showy implementations of NH principles. I agree it probably comes down to liking (or not) the 'trainer themselves', because the style of NH must be related to the trainer's character and personality to some extent. I suppose it is possible for a kind, gentle, humble person to treat a horse roughly or aggessively, or even a brash, egomaniac to be a paragon of gentleness and subtlety when it comes to handling horses - it just seems a bit unlikely to me!
 
'Feel' is about the most important aspect of any form of horse training, yet the most difficult concept to teach or even explain.

I honestly think that 'feel' is only really understood and appreciated when you are working with your horse at quite high levels, when your practical skills and perception allow you to concentrate on what the horses behavior is saying too you.

When people watch some of these trainers working with horses for the first time very often, all your seeing is a lack of connection. Some horses catch on in minutes, others take longer, but when the connection is made, that's when the true meaning of 'feel' becomes apparent and the 'dance' not the 'drill' begins.
 
perfect11s said:
Yes Great trainer I think he one of the best if not the best firm but fair and ends up with relaxed, well bridled and confedent horses ..
who cares what the average English numpty thinks im realy not intrested when you see how so called english trained horses behave and need to be constanly pushed or pulled by their perspiring riders ...
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What a sweeping statement! My 'English' trained horses are NEVER pulled about or bullied into doing anything and I am willing to bet that they are not in the minority!

On the other side of the coin, the majority of Parelli trained horses DO appear to be bullied and pushed, a lot of them are dead in the eye and a lot of them are owned by numpties!

There are good and bad horsepeople in BOTH camps, I have not seen the trainer mentioned here but if he is anything like PP, who showed just how much of a bully he can be with Catwalk, aided and abeted by his revolting wife, who appears to be even worse than he is, then I do not want to see him 'work'.
 
Yunalesca said:
Every trainer (NH and traditional horsemanship) have some good to teach and some crap they pass on.
I think you should learn as much as possable from as many people as possable and then apply what you think is usefull for you and yours- no one trainer is perfect and noone knows your own animal better then you.

As for teh things that seem rubbish at the time of watching/reading,it might be just the thing on another horse or it could simply comfirm your views on what not to do but learning other methods is never a bad thing :)
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Amen to that.

Yunalesca you have hit the nail right on the head.

I haven't seen the programme of him first mentioned so can't comment on that.

After reading this thread I went and looked up CC, he isn't pretty at times (but I have seen some equally unpretty dressage training behind the scenes too) but he is effective, and quite honestly, anyone who can ride a pattern bridleless can't be that bad a horseman... who on here can do much without a bridle, in complete control, let alone ride the equivalent of a dressage test? I jolly well couldn't. (I know I have seen pictures of someone doing xc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmutt0Xfupc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODDSXWioYOw&feature=related
 
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Amaranta said:
What a sweeping statement! My 'English' trained horses are NEVER pulled about or bullied into doing anything and I am willing to bet that they are not in the minority!

On the other side of the coin, the majority of Parelli trained horses DO appear to be bullied and pushed, a lot of them are dead in the eye and a lot of them are owned by numpties!

There are good and bad horsepeople in BOTH camps, I have not seen the trainer mentioned here but if he is anything like PP, who showed just how much of a bully he can be with Catwalk, aided and abeted by his revolting wife, who appears to be even worse than he is, then I do not want to see him 'work'.
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Totally agree with this. My 'English' trained horses have never been bullied and pushed/pulled. My horses jump willingly and happily as I teach them positively. Its when you start bullying horses or pushing them too quickly IMO that problems start to arise - this happens on either side of the pond! The parelli I've seen, the horses don't look happy. They look bored and agitated by life! I cant believe anyone supports Pat Parelli after the Catwalk episode, that was sickening. Surely, the fact he's done that once in public proves his methods are pretty horrendous. Imagine what he does behind closed doors... I hate the mentality that you have to either be "natural horsemanship" or you're not. Whats wrong with simply understanding the horse and treating it kindly and with respect at all times. Handling and riding horses is not rocket science, its just common sense.

Riding bridleless is nothing amazing IMO. I can do basic stuff with a rope round my horses neck - its simply practice! Any horse can do it, just like they learn to accept the bridle and understand the usual commands.
 
Tinypony said:
Amazing how a thread about Chris Cox ends up with people discussing Parelli. :-))
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yes especily as he is a horse/people trainer and not a NH
person ...mind they the numptys have seen one program with the spoiled dressage horse and they are judging him on one program and not the great things he has done in the past.... Oh well I suppose it's the easy way to go lump him with the awfull parelli lot and condemm him and anything else that dosent fit your narrow minded view... dont let them get to you its not worth it...
 
fburton said:
I dislike loud/rough horsemanship - I think it's ugly. It isn't necessary to be loud and rough to train a horse to be compliant, responsive and willing. I'm all for firm, fair handling - but one can be firm and fair in a quiet way, rather than an aggressive and bullying way.

So are there really no quiet (probably a better word than 'gentle') NH trainers?

Maybe it's the loud ones that are most likely to get the limelight.
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LIKE this post! :D
 
perfect11s said:
Yes Great trainer I think he one of the best if not the best firm but fair and ends up with relaxed, well bridled and confedent horses ..
who cares what the average English numpty thinks im realy not intrested when you see how so called english trained horses behave and need to be constanly pushed or pulled by their perspiring riders ...
Click to expand...

Ive never seen chris cox so wont comment on him but from your sweeping statement posts on this thread about others id say, youre the numpty
 
MagicMelon said:
Riding bridleless is nothing amazing IMO. I can do basic stuff with a rope round my horses neck - its simply practice! Any horse can do it, just like they learn to accept the bridle and understand the usual commands.
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No, you are right, it isn't.

But, it takes a great deal of work and time to get to that stage, it isn't something you get a horse to do by just swinging a rope at it, that was the point I was making. I don't care if you get on backwards dressed like Mr Blobby and do it, you'd still have to work at it.
 
Enfys said:
No, you are right, it isn't.

But, it takes a great deal of work and time to get to that stage, it isn't something you get a horse to do by just swinging a rope at it, that was the point I was making. I don't care if you get on backwards dressed like Mr Blobby and do it, you'd still have to work at it.
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Yes well said ... to be honest I know little about horses and the more I learn the more I realise how much I need to learn!!! sadly some people have just enough knowlage to get by but suddenly they become experts 100% certain of everything.. which isnt good :D
 
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