Chris Cox Natural Horsemanship on H&C TV - yuck!

[Natch]

These methods tend to look impressive and work a bit when the 'professionals' do it.... But what happens when Chantelle and her pals attempt this with Rocky the riding school pony? It'll cause the animal distress!

Much the same as when chantelle and her pals try to emulate Edward Gal, I'm sure!

Month roberts, Kelly marks ... YES! that's just commin sense and a rare touch and genuine understanding.... Without aubergine sticks!

Yes, their patented headcollars are nothing like a patented prodding object, and as for Carl Hester's fantastic elastic rein and DVDs, goodness me, one would be lost without the Whittaker line of clothing and Katie Price's jodphurs

I dislike loud/rough horsemanship - I think it's ugly. It isn't necessary to be loud and rough to train a horse to be compliant, responsive and willing. I'm all for firm, fair handling - but one can be firm and fair in a quiet way, rather than an aggressive and bullying way.

So are there really no quiet (probably a better word than 'gentle') NH trainers?

Maybe it's the loud ones that are most likely to get the limelight.

Completely agree. The ones getting on with the "real" good horsemanship (IMO) aren't interested in DVDs or fame.

 

[Pale Rider]

What a sweeping statement! My 'English' trained horses are NEVER pulled about or bullied into doing anything and I am willing to bet that they are not in the minority!

On the other side of the coin, the majority of Parelli trained horses DO appear to be bullied and pushed, a lot of them are dead in the eye and a lot of them are owned by numpties!

There are good and bad horsepeople in BOTH camps, I have not seen the trainer mentioned here but if he is anything like PP, who showed just how much of a bully he can be with Catwalk, aided and abeted by his revolting wife, who appears to be even worse than he is, then I do not want to see him 'work'.

Nice even handed post this, no obvious bias one way or another. lol.

 

[perfect11s]

Nice even handed post this, no obvious bias one way or another. lol.

they make my point perfectly give um some rope and they will happly hang themselves.......

 

[Fellewell]

'Feel' is about the most important aspect of any form of horse training, yet the most difficult concept to teach or even explain.

I honestly think that 'feel' is only really understood and appreciated when you are working with your horse at quite high levels, when your practical skills and perception allow you to concentrate on what the horses behavior is saying too you.

When people watch some of these trainers working with horses for the first time very often, all your seeing is a lack of connection. Some horses catch on in minutes, others take longer, but when the connection is made, that's when the true meaning of 'feel' becomes apparent and the 'dance' not the 'drill' begins.

Inspired post in the midst of all the name-calling. Says it all really

 

[Amaranta]

Nice even handed post this, no obvious bias one way or another. lol.

Actually PR, I believe that good horsemanship is good horsemanship regardless of whatever path you follow. I also believe that to follow one path blindly is a big mistake, I am probably not traditional but neither am I NH, I take what I want from both camps and discard what I don't like.

I have to say that, watching the video's that Enfys posted of Chris Cox, I was actually impressed and I was expecting not to be. I have not watched the dressage horse one so cannot comment on that but I did like what I saw on the videos posted on this thread. Happy horse, quiet rider and all looked harmonious.

I freely admit to being biased against PP and his 'lovely' wife.

 

[Amaranta]

they make my point perfectly give um some rope and they will happly hang themselves.......

Please explain how I am about to hang myself? And if a dislike of PP makes me a numpty then I am happy to be a numpty. I suspect from your closed mind attitude that you do not know as much as you think you do.

TBH if your intellect is such that you cannot make a point without calling people names, then you have lost your argument before you even start.

 

[perfect11s]

Please explain how I am about to hang myself? And if a dislike of PP makes me a numpty then I am happy to be a numpty. I suspect from your closed mind attitude that you do not know as much as you think you do.

TBH if your intellect is such that you cannot make a point without calling people names, then you have lost your argument before you even start.

Am happy to be a numpty too as I have no time for the parelli circus... my point is that people should consider and compare before making sweeping statements hence my sarky coments ....

 

[Amaranta]

Am happy to be a numpty too as I have no time for the parelli circus... my point is that people should consider and compare before making sweeping statements hence my sarky coments ....

Ah I see, so this was not a sweeping statement?


who cares what the average English numpty thinks im realy not intrested when you see how so called english trained horses behave and need to be constanly pushed or pulled by their perspiring riders ...

 

[Tinypony]

Could someone explain to me why all threads asking about horsemen who happen to wear cowboy hats end up in the same old Parelli arguments with the same people taking part?

Chris Cox isn't anything to do with Parelli and never has been.

 

[Amaranta]

Could someone explain to me why all threads asking about horsemen who happen to wear cowboy hats end up in the same old Parelli arguments with the same people taking part?

Chris Cox isn't anything to do with Parelli and never has been.

It must be the hats!

 

[fburton]

I post in threads like this because I like to discussing NH and where it stands in the bigger horsemanship picture. I haven't mentioned P*relli and try to avoid doing that. My views on him/that are well known. I'm more interested in general principles than specific personalities.

 

[doonrocket]

The sad thing is, it's not really about how good or bad Chris Cox is. The fact is it is all about marketing and not horse care. Like anything you buy off the shelf, great if it works but don't believe everything you read on the tin.

If it doesn't work for you, try something else.

Unfortunately many people think that by subscribing to one particular form of NH they are being open minded - well only if your mind stays open. If it's not for you (or your horse) are you able to move on.

I do despare when people start using any other method on a horse that is perfectly well trained, due to their own lack of confidence or riding ability - chucking a rope at his head is going to majically turn you into a better rider!

 

[Tinypony]

I post in threads like this because I like to discussing NH and where it stands in the bigger horsemanship picture. I haven't mentioned P*relli and try to avoid doing that. My views on him/that are well known. I'm more interested in general principles than specific personalities.

Yes, I can see that Fburton, I tend to join in on threads for the same reason. I was just struggling to work out why a few people here are off on Parelli rants.

 

[AengusOg]

Personally I've reached the conclusion that Monty Roberts doesn't fall in line with my understanding of NH, for a variety of reasons but too much pressure is probably the main one.

.

It's about fifteen years since I saw MR demonstrating his art, so I can't comment on his use of pressure. What I do know is that the application of too much pressure is counter-productive, as this will only cause adverse reaction, or resistance, in the horse.

I'd be interested to know why, and in what circumstances, you think MR uses too much pressure.

As you rightly say in a subsequent post, 'feel' is very important with the use of pressure. It's feel which allows the handler to gauge the amount and duration of pressure in the hope of getting a favourable response from the horse, without causing him to resist. However, it is the horse which teaches the trainer feel.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's about fifteen years since I saw MR demonstrating his art, so I can't comment on his use of pressure. What I do know is that the application of too much pressure is counter-productive, as this will only cause adverse reaction, or resistance, in the horse.

I'd be interested to know why, and in what circumstances, you think MR uses too much pressure.

As you rightly say in a subsequent post, 'feel' is very important with the use of pressure. It's feel which allows the handler to gauge the amount and duration of pressure in the hope of getting a favourable response from the horse, without causing him to resist. However, it is the horse which teaches the trainer feel.

Like you it is some time since I have attended one of his demonstrations, I was concious at the time how claustophobic the pen set up was and how intense the pressure was to achieve 'join up'.

This I feel is further compounded by the use of his pressure halters, which I don't think offer a good enough release.

The trailer loading is nothing but pressure, and whilst it may be initially successful, I'm looking for an initial load without the pressure halter, and that amount of pressure, and certainly not with high fences either side of the ramp, which also occurs.

 

[Fellewell]

Could someone explain to me why all threads asking about horsemen who happen to wear cowboy hats end up in the same old Parelli arguments with the same people taking part?

Chris Cox isn't anything to do with Parelli and never has been.

I can answer this; they don't just happen to wear cowboy hats, they actually need them to store the overfill from their wallets
All the other stuff is just peeing up the wall but it's interesting for all that.

 

[MiCsarah]

If chris cox is the guy I've seen on tv. He doesn't look too bad, he was getting a horse to load and it was brilliant and didn't need any of the fences that mr and pp needed.
My opinion on all trainers is you take what you want from each one and and make your own methods up that suit your own horse

 

[Tinypony]

I can answer this; they don't just happen to wear cowboy hats, they actually need them to store the overfill from their wallets
All the other stuff is just peeing up the wall but it's interesting for all that.

I wish that were the case. If it was I wouldn't have such a struggle making it viable for my cowboy-hat trainer to come and teach each year. Some big names are making a lot of money, but the majority, like most horse trainers, struggle financially.

 

[Pale Rider]

I wish that were the case. If it was I wouldn't have such a struggle making it viable for my cowboy-hat trainer to come and teach each year. Some big names are making a lot of money, but the majority, like most horse trainers, struggle financially.

This is true, some people with a good buisness plan are making some money, and with the number of new trainers about, people are going to struggle I reckon.

Having said that there are thousands of people on yards all over the country giving riding lessons and seem to be getting on ok, even though what they are teaching is an anathema to me.

I was watching someone getting their first lesson the other day, well I hope it was their first, and everything they were being told was just, well it was awful. Kicking their pony, flapping, pulling on the reins, round and round for half an hour. I was just glad to be on my way, but, people are paying good money for this, and the yard does a good trade locally. Sad really.