Chucked off yesterday...what do you think?

asommerville

asommerville

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Hi Folks, just looking for a wee bit of advice please! In the last 2 weeks my youngster has had his saddle checked and changed and on Tuesday had a full work up by a proper registered physio as i though he wasnt quite right and wasnt moving well behind. Since then he was been working away, moving much more freely and I have probably been asking a wee bit 'more' of him (circling, bending properly etc - he was definitely NOT overworked) Got on him yesterday and he was amazing, really forward and happy, after about 30 mins though a tractor drove past and a horsebox parked outside the arena, i ignored them and carried on and he took exception to being made to work and not allowed to spook! This happened just as i was getting ready to start cooling down and i decided to keep him going until he got a grip on himself (now keeping going as in lots of 'big' walking, transition and a wee bt leg yield). His behavior got worse and worse - he tried running away, broncing, throwing his head up..and culminated in his spinning, leaping in the air and dropping his shoulder :eek: (wee sh**e) and me hitting the deck. I got back on and walked him until he calmed down. My friend was watching and said he was good until he was made to do what he didnt want to and thought he should be finished so he spat the dummy and meant to get me off.

Does anyone have any tips on what I could do to keep his attention? I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong though) that i did anything to make him behave like that and someone said he could just be feeling good now and trying it on?
 
30 minutes is a long time for a baby to concentrate - first off, I would just do 5/10 minutes, and build up very gradually. If he is being good, then end on a good note - he was possibly tired and had just had enough ? Then it's any excuse for a blow out.
 
hes 5, he is schooled, hacked out, does a wee bit of jumping (hes just learning) and hes turned out every day this year hea been to 3 dressage tests and 1 clear round and had 6 weeks off in the summer as lame. also spent 3 weeks just hacking out to give him a break from the school.
 
hmmm, toys out the pram ?? Shy got me off recently because his saddle was pinching (the gullet plate was too wide), a full on rodeo job, poor lad - is it possible that the new saddle could be doing the same ?

Sure there will lots of advice to follow though x
 
Another thought - I generally find that if a horse is getting bothered it's better to work in small arcs than straight lines. A lot depends on his level of education and experience. If he's very green you may have inadvertently thrown a lot more at him (legs, hands, whip, energy?) than he was used to and built up a spook of your own.
 
asommerville said:
Hi Folks, just looking for a wee bit of advice please! In the last 2 weeks my youngster has had his saddle checked and changed and on Tuesday had a full work up by a proper registered physio as i though he wasnt quite right and wasnt moving well behind. Since then he was been working away, moving much more freely and I have probably been asking a wee bit 'more' of him (circling, bending properly etc - he was definitely NOT overworked) Got on him yesterday and he was amazing, really forward and happy, after about 30 mins though a tractor drove past and a horsebox parked outside the arena, i ignored them and carried on and he took exception to being made to work and not allowed to spook! This happened just as i was getting ready to start cooling down and i decided to keep him going until he got a grip on himself (now keeping going as in lots of 'big' walking, transition and a wee bt leg yield). His behavior got worse and worse - he tried running away, broncing, throwing his head up..and culminated in his spinning, leaping in the air and dropping his shoulder :eek: (wee sh**e) and me hitting the deck. I got back on and walked him until he calmed down. My friend was watching and said he was good until he was made to do what he didnt want to and thought he should be finished so he spat the dummy and meant to get me off.

Does anyone have any tips on what I could do to keep his attention? I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong though) that i did anything to make him behave like that and someone said he could just be feeling good now and trying it on?
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I suspect he was very stressed by the tractor and needed to release it in some way, being asked to then carry on schooling was the opposite of the stress release so he told you 'no mum Im too stressed and threw his toys out'. He was def trying it on but that stemmed from genuine stress.

I would keep riding through any episodes as best as you can but would also try to get him very familiar with moving tractors etc so that he is less stressed by them (not easy, still working on that with my own mare)
 
Horses are reactive they rarely throw a temper tantrum as we know it, they usually respond or react to the situation they are in, as he was going so well yesterday you probably did a fair bit with him, once he started spooking, or trying to, you needed to use a good diversion tactic to keep his attention at that time.
I would think that once he had put his attention onto the things going on he was tired possibly getting a little tight, his muscles will be feeling different following physio, the best thing would have been to continue to stretch him and finish, it may mean avoiding part of the area or reaching a compromise on how well he was going but having a battle like you did is best avoided especially when the horse has gone well up until then.

I try and get all of mine to learn to stretch really deep, leg yield and get their attention that way if it happens at the end of a session you can still ride them through it while they are stretching and cooling down.
 
i see what you mean about the tractor making him stress but hes seen tractors and not bothered before

tinypony i did wonder if i had maybe asked a bit much as i had been asking him to bend a bit more and doing lots of circles, thing is i was getting ready to cool down when he started to spook, see if he had just walked round once after that i would have finished :-(

shysmum i did wonder about the saddle but hes beem fine the other times i.rode in it
 
be positive - can you give me any tips on encouraging him stretch down please as wer struggling with that!

thanks for comments so far folks
 
I think that idea with the trot poles is a really good one. One of the useful things I got out of Parelli was the idea of "patterns". Not horribly drilled, but as a source of comfort. So when I started by Arab mare we'd already used a "clover leaf" pattern for groundwork, and I continued to use it when riding to establish nice bends, halts etc. Whenever she got worried during schooling I'd take her down the arena to her clover leaf and I could feel her just go "ah, I know this" and relax. I think a good starting point is that they always want to be right.
Also, was there an element of not wanting to give in with your horse and the tractor. Personally I don't think it's giving in to take them to a place or situation where they can relax and get their brains back together sometimes.
 
To stretch down? I'll probably be disagreed with big time about this but... think of the German Training Scale with Relaxation at the bottom as the foundation of everything you do. If you don't have true relaxation then you're always going to reach a plateau in your work.
I think that the "english" style of starting a young horse doesn't take this into account enough. As soon as we get on and they move forward we're asking them to stop. Then we start schooling and we're constantly pushing them forward while asking them to stop (ie a straight rein contact). I would say don't "pick your horse up" until he can travel forwards in a relaxed manner on a loose rein. If he can truly do that then you won't have any problems with him stretching down, he'll just do it.
I watched my friend backing her youngster under supervision a while back. Being supervised by a very experienced trainer, but he's definitely on the cowboy side of horsemanship. She got on, her mare moved forward, he was saying "Don't you pull back on that rein, go with her, rub her, talk to her, let her go forward, forward, don't take that forward out of her before she finds it". A different mindset maybe? When the horse can move forward in a relaxed manner, they have no hangups about teaching a nice halt and a good backup and mixing that in with the forward, it's just that the youngster needs to be able to truly travel in a relaxed manner first.
 
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starting to see i maybe did too much, if he hadnt acted up i would have stopped! tinypony your exactly right i didnt want to give in!

the pattern idea is great by thr way!!
 
Tinypony said:
To stretch down? I'll probably be disagreed with big time about this but... think of the German Training Scale with Relaxation at the bottom as the foundation of everything you do. If you don't have true relaxation then you're always going to reach a plateau in your work.
I think that the "english" style of starting a young horse doesn't take this into account enough. As soon as we get on and they move forward we're asking them to stop. Then we start schooling and we're constantly pushing them forward while asking them to stop (ie a straight rein contact). I would say don't "pick your horse up" until he can travel forwards in a relaxed manner on a loose rein. If he can truly do that then you won't have any problems with him stretching down, he'll just do it.
I watched my friend backing her youngster under supervision a while back. Being supervised by a very experienced trainer, but he's definitely on the cowboy side of horsemanship. She got on, her mare moved forward, he was saying "Don't you pull back on that rein, go with her, rub her, talk to her, let her go forward, forward, don't take that forward out of her before she finds it". A different mindset maybe? When the horse can move forward in a relaxed manner, they have no hangups about teaching a nice halt and a good backup and mixing that in with the forward, it's just that the youngster needs to be able to truly travel in a relaxed manner first.
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Rhytmn is the bottom of the scale then suppleness sometimes it's called looseness and sometimes relaxation I don't like to think of it as relaxation as if turely relaxed the horse would fall over however I have it beauifully explained by a German trainer as the horse gives itself freely to be worked thats it in a nut shell when you dont have this feeling with a young one you need to step back .the fact op is having trouble with the strethching shows that this part of the pyramid of training is not in place and she needs to think though why and address it, she's had a little set back and and wake up call to be careful, not the end of the world.
 
I think maybe u over did it

A tired youngster can often be a naughty youngster. They express they have done enough in a manner not always delightful for us.
 
Goldenstar said:
Rhytmn is the bottom of the scale then suppleness sometimes it's called looseness and sometimes relaxation I don't like to think of it as relaxation as if turely relaxed the horse would fall over however I have it beauifully explained by a German trainer as the horse gives itself freely to be worked thats it in a nut shell when you dont have this feeling with a young one you need to step back .the fact op is having trouble with the strethching shows that this part of the pyramid of training is not in place and she needs to think though why and address it, she's had a little set back and and wake up call to be careful, not the end of the world.
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Depends on what version of the Training Scale you favour. Some still argue that you can't get Rhythm without relaxation. I also don't think that relaxed horses will fall over without us to hold them up. But - we are fundamentally agreeing, something in the foundation needs a little tweak. And I agree, it's definitely not the end of the world when a youngster tells you that it was all a bit too much on that particular occasion. :-))
 
thanks TP, im supposed to be working too ooops! would be easy to just say that he was being rude but its not like him....hence this thread starting. knew i'd get my eyes opened :-)
 
Tinypony said:
http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Training_Scales/training_scales.html
(Just a quick Google, I'm supposed to be working).
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I love this website. It saw me through lots of problems in my early riding stages and I constantly refer to it when in doubt or confused ( which is quite often :rolleyes: )

I just found out yesterday that the source of the problems with the young cob I share is that his saddle didn't fit . He'd gone from being very good amd sensible to a bucking specialist when his owner rode him. We though it was something she was doing that upset him. So despite the cost £££££ of a new saddle we are really relieved to have found the cause.
 
Tinypony said:
http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Training_Scales/training_scales.html
(Just a quick Google, I'm supposed to be working).
Click to expand...

There several versions but most put rhytmn at the base it being the route to suppleness
Where I was trained we had this drummed into us.
Rhytmn
Suppleness Expressed also as looseness or relaxation.
Contact
Impulsion or the development of pushing or carrying power.
Straightness
Collection.
I could expound at length about why I feel relaxation is not the best way to express the second level but you are at work and I'm going to take a particularily challenged horse to the forest in the trailer for the first time to try a big hack out I suspect that looseness suppleness and relaxation or going to be in short supply.
Have a good day at work Tiny pony.
 
Sorry to hijack, but how do you define what is too much for a youngster? I'm helping another HHO'er hack her newly backed 5 year old out at the moment, physically he is quite fit and we're gradually increasing the length of his rides, still only using walk and the odd trot, but he's quite hard to judge when he's mentally had enough. Any tips? He's not naughty, will sometimes just stop
 
Tinypony said:
To stretch down? I'll probably be disagreed with big time about this but... think of the German Training Scale with Relaxation at the bottom as the foundation of everything you do. If you don't have true relaxation then you're always going to reach a plateau in your work.
I think that the "english" style of starting a young horse doesn't take this into account enough. As soon as we get on and they move forward we're asking them to stop. Then we start schooling and we're constantly pushing them forward while asking them to stop (ie a straight rein contact). I would say don't "pick your horse up" until he can travel forwards in a relaxed manner on a loose rein. If he can truly do that then you won't have any problems with him stretching down, he'll just do it.
I watched my friend backing her youngster under supervision a while back. Being supervised by a very experienced trainer, but he's definitely on the cowboy side of horsemanship. She got on, her mare moved forward, he was saying "Don't you pull back on that rein, go with her, rub her, talk to her, let her go forward, forward, don't take that forward out of her before she finds it". A different mindset maybe? When the horse can move forward in a relaxed manner, they have no hangups about teaching a nice halt and a good backup and mixing that in with the forward, it's just that the youngster needs to be able to truly travel in a relaxed manner first.
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Spot on, the horse must be going forwards and you must keep the work interesting, not just round and round the school, plenty of circles changes of rein etc keep the mind on the job. As for doing too much I dont think so, what about all the 4/5 yr old classes both eventing and SJing.
 
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