Clever bully

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planete

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I am at the moment looking after a very fast, very fit two year old coursing bred dog. He gets on well with my other dogs and is respectful with them and us. I am working on his recall but the lure of the chase is extremely powerful with him and I cannot recall him if he decides another dog is going to make a good chasing target. He is extremely clever and can read other dogs' body language very accurately from a long distance as he will never target any dog that would stand his ground or turn on him. He does not touch the target dog, just makes sure he keeps him running by harassing him. I know in an ideal world he would be let loose on quarry and would fulfil his love of the chase but it is not legally possible. How should I deal with this? He has to be exercised off lead otherwise he will become even more of a problem through frustration.

I cannot use my usual method of longline and harness to train him as he is the first dog I have had who can literally lift me off my feet before I am slammed into the ground if he shoots off.

I am trying to reinforce his recall obviously and to only let him off in safe places but people and dogs will pop up even in remote corners and the odd incidents are a worry as he scares owners and dogs.

Constructive comments welcome as well as tips on helpful publications and websites. Anything else will be ignored.
 
How much exercise is he getting per day? Tbh I would imagine teaching a coursing bred dog recall will be an extremely difficult task. Is their a dog play park near you? We've one over here than you can hire individually that has securely fenced areas so dogs can be safely let off the lead to blow off some steam.
 
If you are on facebook...see if there are any local groups for coursing dogs or put a post up asking if there's anyone else with a really playful dog that might like a play date walk where they can wear each other out running around like loons.

Also, do a search and find a trainer, get on the phone and ask them for exercises you can give the dog to "work" it so that it is getting plenty of mental stimulation as well as physical exercise.

I would say for now though, it is worth getting in the care and going somewhere remote to let him off lead until you can work something out as what he is doing to other dogs can cause them to have fear issues in the future. There used to be a lurcher that would run rings around my four, they are a pack, they stick together and didn't ever pay it much attention, but a few times when it went after other peoples dogs, Dan would stay with ours and I would go and intervene. Usually, owners calling the dog desperately, following it, chasing it, trying to catch it. I would just whistle, say, "BYE" and run the other way and made the family do the same and the dog always followed. The family started doing it themselves and never had a problem after that.

Find games to channel the energy and intelligence, but use expectation to dictate when it's over and he has to follow you.
 
Other than finding a regular secure exercise area, it might be worth teaching either a form of 'watch me' command for distraction or 'wait'. Reinforce either with a obvious hand signal if possible (I've found this very useful for 'wait' ).
Its not meant to be perfect, but its just to give you that nansecond of opportunity to maybe get him back on the lead/catch hold of the collar.
I've adapted the 'watch me' so its now an indication that I've seen something worth chasing as he freezes and stares to look for it- I needed all help I could get!
 
Thank you for your replies. I may not have made myself clear. I have devised ways of coping with the behaviour and they mostly work. I drive everyday to a securely enclosed area where this dog and my two lurchers can race each other, hunt squirrels and generally behave like loons in between recalls. This dog also gets one to one training and playing with me every afternoon to improve his self control and his responses to everyday situations. He gets trained both at home and outdoors in various locations. What I am hoping to come across is a way to make him feel he does not need to bully vulnerable dogs, in other words I would like to go beyond management towards influencing the way he feels.

Unfortunately he came to me already adult with his self confidence very well-developed and walking away from him does not worry him in the least as he knows he can catch up with me from any distance in his own good time. I never go after a dog who is ignoring me and I do not even call unless I think I am going to be listened to, I do walk away, and yes he will come when he has finished chasing!

I like the wait command as I agree it can give that vital extra second to secure the dog. I will definitely work on this as well as his concentration improves. I am not sure whether his bullying denotes a 'hole' in his social learning, an overflow of his chasing instinct, or both. One of my own lurchers reared by me has a very strong prey drive but has never exhibited this bullying behaviour.

Finding a trainer to help me with this dog worries me as it can turn out to be a very expensive minefield. They all want to come and see him in the home first for fees varying between £60.00 and 120.00 just for their initial assessment. I am used to devising ways of outwitting hell-bent horses and would like ideas to outwit this dog from better brains than my own. (I understand there are a few here!)
 
Yes, I do walk away. See the second paragraph of my reply above please. His reaction to my walking away is roughly the same as if I was walking away from a dog in the middle of his chasing a rabbit. I know of Jim Greenwood and yes, he is very good with lurchers.
 
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We had a vet who was unusual in that he was not totally focused on money! He got a small group going that raced lurchers and whippets in a local park on weekends and summer evenings. It was a lot of fun for everyone and gave the dogs a purpose. Could that work?

Extreme behaviour wanting to play/associate with other dogs is sometimes a sign that they missed out on this in their younger socialisation period. Go walkies with owners who have dogs of a similar temperament that don't mind the rough play? My two German shepherds (6 and 1) play fight continually which takes the pressure off me!

I think I'd be looking for an outlet for that behaviour rather than trying to repress it.

http://www.lure-machines.co.uk
http://lurecoursing.org.uk
 
And I know you say you can't walk him on the lead but tbh I would be totally furious if he came over and harassed my dogs. The other people and dogs have more rights than your out of control dog! I have a lurcher and understand lack of recall but luckily mine never went after dogs. You say you don't chase him or call him? So if he is 3 fields away 'attacking' another dog do you just let him get on with it?
 
I know a good behaviourist and trainer. She deals with recall issues a lot so may be able to help. My airedale still refuses to come when asked all the time and last time he refused he got hit by a car and charged off behind a bunch of different livery yard fields. He was ok and his recall was perfect for a week but he is back on the 'in my own time' mode again! We are getting their slowly though! Attention span issue with him really *rolls eyes* Her website is www.caninedirectiontraining.co.uk
 
Thanks, Dry Rot and Kylara. I completely agree it is not possible to suppress the chasing instinct. I have been trying to interest him in chasing after balls and various other objects and am slowly getting there. I managed to teach a "leave" command to my prey driven lurcher by producing his ball at strategic moments even though it took me 6 months to get a reliable retrieve. I started when he was very young though. Lure coursing would be ideal if I lived in the Midlands but down on the south coast, the nearest regular meetings are hours away unfortunately.

If there is a hole in his social skills, any ideas as to how best to deal with his particular one? He already goes on charity lurcher walks regularly where he is perfectly behaved!

I like the canine direction training website and I noticed they are supposed to do walks around Greenham Common which might be doable from time to time. Good luck with your airedale Kylara.

Burning the midnight oil last night worrying at the problem I revisited David Ryan's website. It has given me a few ideas but please keep them coming!
 
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