Clicker Training

[dancingkris]

Apologies if this has been done a million times before....

Has anyone had much luck with clicker training as a training method? I have just bought a 4 year old who has basically been broken, raced in Ireland then left to rot in a field for 18 months. Despite his bad start in life he is the sweetest natured horse you will ever meet in 99.9% of ways (you groom him and he'll groom you back) but today we had a bit of a battle with picking out his back feet, resulting in him trying to kick me. Otherwise he's not nasty in anyway - he's simply a big baby so I don't really want to smack him if he's naughty and risk losing the trust he's building up in me and souring his lovely nature. He is very food orientated - probably due to the fact he's been so neglected - so I thought that clicker training and rewarding his good behaviour would be a more positive step forward than punishing his not so good behaviour.

If anyone can give me any tips/hints, or your experiences with clicker training I'd love to hear them.

Thanks

 

[Shantara]

Bump, as I will be following this thread with interest Bought my clicker, I just need to wait for warmer weather so we can both concentrate better.

 

[Tickles]

Oh, there was a thread very recently, with books recommended and people's favourite 'tricks' and things... I know there is also someone on here with a bad back who has trained their horse to pick up feet when the owner points at them... have a search!

 

[tazzle]

clicker is a wonderful tool and for sure it can provide motivation for a horse to lift and keep its own foot up ...... amongst many other things

I started off CT about 10 years ago and then tried other things too ... but came back to being mainly CT.

CT does not mean that one oNLY uses positive reinforcement as that is almost impossible to do , it means that it is the default / main principle and where neg reinforcement or punishment (pos or negative) is used it is used with knowledge / skill / timing and awareness of its effects. Negative does not been bad .... just that you are taking something away.

I think a basic knowledge of learning theories is a good place to start.

I think a heck of a lot of people who do not cT do use pos reinforcement as part of their repetoire and some will also use treat food as the reinforcer to solve an issue. CT means you get more specific about it.




I think its important firstly to plan what you want to do and be able to break the behaviour you want down into smaller chunks to train it. This make it easier for the horse to understand as well as to be able to achieve and get rewarded.

eg for the foot lifting if you started out wanting him to lift his foot right up (when he had not done it before and did not know the cue) before you rewarded him He might never "get it" . If you started out rewarding just a shift of weight off the foot then he achieves quicker.

The plan would depend on where he "is" atm

it might be
CT standing still when you are at his shoulder
CT accepting your hand on his knee
CT accepting your hand on his lower leg
CT accepting your hand on his hoof
( depending on what cue you want and how much pressure / neg reinforcement you decide to use the next step varies)
apply the cue / light pressure and
CT shift in weight
CT movement of the foot up
CT hoof higher
CT holding for a second or two
CT holding up for longer
CT you tapping foot / cleaning foot for a few seconds. ( trick is to do it in small stages so you keep on a good note and put his foot down before it gets to be his idea

etc etc etc.
the horse will present a little more each time if you slightly delay the click .





BUT before you do anything at all ........ best not to leap straight in CT ing a "problem" ..... best to "charge" the clicker with summat new / interesting and wont stress the horse out. Target training is usually the best way as most horses will look at / sniff something you have in your hand that you hold near them

The other thing he would need to learn fast is the "no mugging" because he will try out various methods of getting a treat till he has worked out that he needs to do what you have asked and hear the sound in order to get the treat. Most of us just fold our arms till the horse stops nudging / nosing then CT .... then ask horse to actually "do" something.

Another tip ..... if you decide to CT then all other hand feeding / treats need to stop .... not fair to confuse the horse by giving sometimes "for free" and not others. Once they are experienced enough you can do ..... but I still never give the herbal treats I use for CT without asking for something even just a step back. Other things I dont use for CT like carrots / veg I feed by hand sometimes though.



anyway ... I have rambled on a bit and brain tired now This is a huuuuuuuuuuge topic so maybe you could have a google and see what you can find then ask questions. There are loads sites , some of them do mainly trick training but there are some that do "serious" stuff too

have fun exploring the topic

 

[newbie_nix]

yep, just started clicker training with my 3 yr old about 10 days ago. Bought a clicker starter kit from Alexandra Kurland in the US.

As stated elsewhere you need to 'charge' the clicker first. I use a toy boxing glove and every time he touches it with his nose he gets a click and tiny sliver of carrot. But never if he crowds me or lunges for the bum bag I wear with little chunks of carrot in it. I feed him tiny tiny chunks as he only gets one carrot a day (he is a good doer so I am wary of overfeeding him!) and as he has progressed he has been doing more per chunk! I am really getting my moneys worth per carrot now

I have stopped using the actual clicker and click my tongue instead - works just as well and frees up my hand.

We have pretty much got 'fetch' nailed now. Apart from yesterday when he got a bit over excited, fetched the target and proudly presented it to my MIL's dog! But hey, at least he was a good boy for sharing?!

In between playign fetch (which he loves) I use it to practise the more serious stuff like standing still, backing up and also picking out feet. Mine also has a habit of waving his back feet around.

Before I got the clicker I managed to get him to behave a bit better by being stern with him and if he mucked around too much he was calmly but firmly backed up a few times - this helped establish me as the boss! I also took him right back to basics with feet and built back up to it from touching fetlock to holding up for a short while etc. Even without the clicker and just some patient common sense style re-training we made great progress, but I want to get him to pick up his feet more willingly so I am using clicker training now. Just started and so far he picks up his near fore on command. Just need to sort out the other 3!!

Anyway good luck - it is great fun! Just build it gently and make sure you establish solid ground rules with your horse first. Mine gets nothing for being bargey/pushy/mouthy so it has helped his manners no end. The last thing I want is a 500Kg 'puppy' trying to bowl me over looking for treats...

Keep us posted on how you get on

 

[Booboos]

I've used clicker mainly for problem solving with the horses for handling issues, e.g. move away from food, walk slowly next to me, etc.

As above you need to learn a tiny bit yourself about the basic principles and teach a 'leave it' command first so that the animal learns how to behave around food. Elizabeth Kershaw's "Go Click!" is an excellent intro book - it is for dogs but the ideas easily cross over to other animals.

 

[Morgan123]

I do clicker training wiht my welsh cob (nervy) and it is AMAZING what a difference it can make with some horses (though others not so bothered - my opinionated mare just looks at me like i'm completely stupid haha). I used it to desensitive my welsh cob to lots of things - his fear of his tack, rugs, to stand still, pick up his feet, put his head into his headcollar (which he was previously scared of) and so on - as soon as he sees the clicker he gets really excited, sometimes going through his whole repertoire of moves ( very cute) before he starts thinking about what I want him to do! I just went for it, but would advise being more senbiel and reading lots beforehand - there are some fantastic online books and websites and things.

 

[Ali2]

Clicker is a fab tool IMO.

 

[Ladyinred]

If you start CT and keep at it I can guarantee you will be astonished at what you can achieve very easily. It is also brilliant to teach loading.. the best I have come across.

 

[Sianage]

Hello!

I have done a bit of this whilst I was a student in America....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_S...xt=C3ae353dUDOEgsToPDskKNI7TrOJilom3WHqkUSiUC

This is the pony I trained. She ended up being a bit better at the Spanish walk by the end I promise!! Others students taught their horses to bow, play fetch, say yes/no etc. although obviously clicker training has more applications than just teaching tricks! One very important thing though, timing is everything!! Click at the right time and you will get very good results.

This is the guy that taught us...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBkwkyN2mWE

He is FBHS now. He has taught his horse to jump without a bridle purely through classical/operant conditioning methods (the same as you use when clicker training).

Enjoy!

 

[Borderreiver]

Try to read Alex Kurlands books before you start. There are DVD's too. Clicker is a wonderful way to communicate with your horse and once you get into it, it becomes a normal everyday part of your handling. The horses love it. You can find various support groups on Facebook and message boards if you have a look around.
Good luck!

 

[LaurenBay]

I recently posted a thread about CT, however my clicker broke ( friend gave it to me) I am still really interested in CT though, so does anyone know where I can get a starter kit from?

 

[Booboos]

You can pick up clickers anywhere, most pet shops have them for very little money. You don't need anything else other than rewards which are usually food. If you can't find a clicker just use anything that makes a consistent sound.

 

[dancingkris]

Hi

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who have replied to my thread - I'm currently busy reading up on all the principles and theory before starting the practical - which I'm really looking forward to! Will keep you posted as to how it all goes!
Thanks again

 

[Wagtail]

I use clicker training a lot and it is useful for teaching things such as picking up feet etc. It is useful though if you have another person at hand to click and treat as you pick up the feet.

However, if he really did try to kick you then I suspect that there is a pain issue involved. It could be hock, back or sacroilliac. Every horse I have known that has kicked out when back feet have been lifted has been found to have a pain problem, so have him checked out before starting clicker training. Good luck