Clydesdale mudfever

[lout]

hi there
Im just after a little bit of advice about my elderly neighbours Clydesdale.
He is around 20 years old and hasnt really been cared for thoroughly for about 4 years. my neighbour is in his 80's and is full of good intentions but sadly is not mobile enough to care for his horses.

I decided to be nosey the other day and took a good look at the horse. I was horrified to be honest - he has terrible mudfever and its probably been like this for several years.

I am not experienced in heavy horses but i fetched him in from the field and started to make sense of his legs. I have trimmed his feathers off to see what was happening, scrubbed them with hibiscrub, dryed them and applied 'udder cream'

underneath all the feather is a mixture of open sores of varying size and moistness. they go up as far as his knees and hocks. i havent finished trimming his back legs around the pastern cause he is too sore and i dont know the horse well enough to trust him not to kick me. the strange thing is that his fur is full of what i can only describe as 'Crud' like a dry yellowish debris mixed with lots of grease.

So..........
Does anyone have experience of clearing up advanced mudfever? any idea how long it might take?
Does anyone recognise the 'Crud' that i speak of and what is it?
The horse isnt especially lame but his legs are swollen particularly around the pastern - is that normal mudfever symptoms?

any thoughts in general?

thanks

Louise..........and Chip the Clydesdale

 

[Skhosu]

I think you should talk to the owner first....he may not be too happy with you trimming his horses legs..
Don't get me wrong, it needs attention-a call to the ilph/rspca may be in order

 

[Theresa_F]

This sounds like grease rather than mudfever. I do a very long PM about this problem in heavies if you want a copy.

For now, though I normally say do not remove the feather, in this case you need to clip out his legs.

You can immediately start with pig oil and sulphur and also applying the worst scabs 1 tablespoon sudocream mixed with 1 teaspoon of sulphur and 5 drops of teatree oil - it is very effective though messy. You can also wash the legs with a little warm water and hibiscrub once clipped. Avoid washing out feathered legs if you can avoid it - does more harm than good at this time of year.

Once the cuts are healed, then spray with frontline and repeat 10 days later. You need to keep applying pig oil and sulphur on these chaps to keep this condition at bay.

If things don't improve he may need some vet attention and antibiotics - bad cases of grease can be crippling in heavies if not treated.

Once the cuts are healed and the frontline has been applied, you can let the feather grow back but you must keep inspecting and applying P&S.

Good luck with the old boy, our clydesdale is now 21 and though rather stiff is still going strong. If he is stiff, you could try feeding instant linseed which has helped our chap.

Finally - if you can keep him ticking over with some exercise and not let him carry excess weight this will help as often these chaps lie down and cannot get up as they get old due to loss of muscle and carrying too much weight.

 

[lout]

thanks, his owner knows the general plan. in his day this horse was cared for like a king but as i said sadly his owner cannot deliver right now.
I would have been on the phone to the RSPCA right away if i didnt know his owner, i do think it is bad enough to be reported but i decided to try to help instead. im hoping that i can persuade the owner to put the horse on loan but im not sure how realistic that is.

 

[Theresa_F]

Why not ask the owner if he would like help applying P&S - if he has had heavies for years he will know what it is. It is a cheap remedy and normally very effective provided you keep applying it every few weeks.

You may have problems getting someone to take on an elderly heavy horse - we have Cairo on permanent loan but he is an exceptional old chap and my OH adores him.

 

[lout]

oh, thanks TheresaF - please do send me more info about heavies maintenance. his owner knew his stuff in his day but all i get out of him now is how he used to do things - i think it upsets him that he has let the horse get into this state.
thanks!

Louise

 

[Theresa_F]

Sending you a PM now.

 

[scrat]

Just wanted to say good luck with the Clyde and what a fab person you are to take this on. I have a soft spot for heavies, my daughter lost her clydesdale mare last year. The advice and remedies from Theresa will sort the problem I'm sure. We used pig oil and sulpher to deal with greasy heel. You do have to keep at it as once they have this condition it can come back. Because the skin thickens, folds develop and this seems to be where the smelly grease comes from. I used to just clip away the hair under the fetlock to make it easier to keep the folds clean and apply the P&S this left the feathers intact.

 

[charlottenicol]

Oh bless he sounds like he has seen better days and really deserves all the help you can give him, hopefully his owners will see that you are prepared to give him the tlc he deserves, I love my boy to bits, when I first got him I couldn't even pick up his hooves without him stomping around and giving me a real battle, this was due to him being so itchy and sore in the past. Can now pick up hooves no problem but he still hates anything to do with his legs even applying the pig oil and sulphur can be a huge challange, but more that worth it. Good luck as they are truly wonderful horses

 

[lout]

thanks for the info TheresaF
I am so glad I decided to ask the question now.
after reading the info it all makes sense now - the thickened folded skin, the mis-shapen legs.

You know - on Saturday after I'd trimmed his front legs off I was really puzzled by the shape of his legs and the folds in his pasterns. It just was not a familiar thing to me at all. I even asked a friend "surely a Clydesdales legs should feel the same as my horses leg but with more bone?"

So, am I right in thinking that even if we get on top of the lesions and adopt a maintenance regime - his legs won't ever be normal again? the thickened folds wont reduce in size?

Louise

 

[scrat]

In my experience I think the thickened skin will stay. I was able to keep the condition under control but I don't think it entirely goes away. Do watch out in warmer weather as flies are attracted to the secreations and you can get fly strike in the folds of skin (very unpleasant) at least that should'nt be a problem now.I was also advised to try and treat the horse from the inside so we gave her NAF Dtox with her feed. This helps with the immune system although it was difficult to tell whether this made any more difference but it may be good to give a general vit suppliment anyway. Once you have the condition under control I would let the feathers grow back as they will offer protection and at least his legs will look better!

 

[Theresa_F]

Sadly I think if he is really that bad then he will have folds to the end of his days.

If you inspect his legs frequently, and apply P&S or just sulphur in summer you should be able to keep on top of it. If a thick ridge crust flares up, Cairo does from time to time no matter what I do, put on the sudocream mixture I mentioned.

As others have said above, these chaps are wonderful horses with gentle natures and I wish I could come and help with this one but I suspect you are miles from me.

When Cairo goes to clydie heaven we may try to find one that needs a home with lots of tlc - my OH wants to rescue all the poor old clydes he hears about, though Cairo is impossible to replace.

 

[lout]

hi Theresa, Blagdon......

Im just wondering on the scale of severity how bad this boy is.

I was chatting to his owner last night - its always VERY frustrating chatting to him as he tells you about what he used to do and how he used to care for his horses.........he seems oblivious that he hasnt done that for over 5 years! arghhhhhh! Whether this is true or not I dont know but he told me that the horse had never suffered from grease in the past.

So.........to get to the stage that the horse is now - what do you think a likely timescale is?

He has lesions all over his legs ranging from thumbnail size to egg size, he doesnt really have pasterns anymore since they're kind of swollen and there isnt really any definition from the fetlock to the heal. where the pastern is meant to be is very thickened, deeply folded skin(although no lesions there to speak of) .very thick yellow 'crud' in his fur, and bumpy mishapen legs all over.

he isnt especially lame but his back legs are worse than the front and are clearly sore. im struggling to trim the fur off to treat them as he keeps waving them about.

the owner is really house bound at the moment so he cant even look at the legs to gauge the severity and even if he did i would struggle to keep him focussed on the action plan and not what was done in the past.

ive rang a man in my village (im in county durham)who has a few clydes so im hoping that he can come over to give me some moral support and further tips.

how bad do you think it sounds? how much worse would it need to be before PTS would be an option?(im guessing chronic lameness would push it into that category?)

Louise

 

[JessPickle]

I would guess its clumps of grease, it has the same kind of look as mud fever. Pickle gets it and is a clydie x, if you treat it, it usually goes within a few weeks, and if the feathers are brushed through it easily stays away.

 

[fairhill]

My clyde x gets this, and it's an all year round problem, but doesn't affect her work, and she's never been lame from it.

She stamps her legs and itches a lot when it's at it's worse, has lesions that haven't healed in 7 years, despite treatment, and the thickening won't go down.
You can see some of her lumps in this photo:

We have to cut her feathers with scissors as the skin is to sensitive to use clippers with - she tries to take my head off when I try!
I liken it to human eczema as her skin on her legs is very sensitive.

Theresa's treatment works very well.

We also use a skin supplement in her feed to help her support it from the inside - feel good 30 skin supplement is the best one we've found, it's designed for sweet itch, but again, it's a similar affliction.
We use aloe vera gel to take down the heat when it's at it's worse, and also tea tree cream on the worst of the scabby bits.
It does respond well to treatment, so I don't think he will need to be PTS just yet

 

[AmyMay]

You may be better served involving the ILPH and getting the man to sign the horse over to them quite frankly.

It sound terribly neglected.

 

[scrat]

The degree of thickening does sound quite advanced however if you can cope with daily teatments then he deserves a chance. I think hairy legs do require daily attention whether its just checking them to applying P&S to keep them in good condition. In my experience its not one of those condtion that heals itself and goes away so if the owner was not able to attend to it then I would say his legs would have deteriorated quite quickly. If he's ok apart from that then give the treatments a chance. Does he have a stable so he can stay out of wet conditions at least part of the time? I suppose it comes down to how much you want to commit to him. This is going to be a daily task not only treating him but mucking out and all the other things that horsekeeping entails. I'm glad I'm not there because my heart would rule and I'd want to take him home!! Its almost more of a human issue because of the frailty of his owner who cannot see any problem and obviously loves his horse. If you decide that you cannot cope
then the ILPH would be my choice. Please keep us updated I'm sure Theresa would be interested too.

 

[lout]

thanks Blagdon.
Yes, I will let you know how it goes either on this thread or via a pm in a few weeks time. I really appreciate hearing your experiences.

I think a call to the ILPH is a plan B to be honest. I don't see the point if I am willing to keep an eye on him from now on. You are right this is very much a human issue too - if the owner lost his Clydesdale, his last Clyde (he used to have at least 10 in his yard) then I think he would give up living - he is a proper old horseman. he has had this horse since he was a foal.

My plan is to get him cleaned up and then commit myself to a once a week check up to try to keep things in check. if that isnt enough then we will have to have a rethink.

The experienced man from the village popped round earlier today and gave him a big dose of wormer(he said it would help with mites) he is coming back at the weekend to trim his feet. I dont think its my imagination but i think the front legs are looking slightly better already.

I have the go-ahead from the owner to order a batch of oil and sulphur too so ill start using that when it arrives. for now its hibiscrub and cream.

thanks again

Louise

 

[Skhosu]

TBH I think a call to the ilph is in order too. The horse shouldn't have to suffer, I think either that or you need to be prepared to take the horse on and treat it as your own

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
My plan is to get him cleaned up and then commit myself to a once a week check up to try to keep things in check. if that isnt enough then we will have to have a rethink.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't for a minute imagine that once a week will be sufficient. Your intentions are admirable, however........

 

[fairhill]

[ QUOTE ]
for now its hibiscrub and cream.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please dilute the hibiscrub lots and lots, or even better use a baby shampoo on his legs. I find hibiscrub makes Chloe's legs worse as they're so sensitive, and it can be quite harsh.

We used to give her a double dose of equest wormer (I think) to help with mite treatment on vet's advice, so hopefully he'll improve rapidly from now on

 

[lout]

thanks! don't worry, I know the general deal in horse welfare having owned my own old lad for 22 years (he is 26).
It is this particular skin condition that I have never had to deal with before so thanks again for all your input here.

and yes, if i cannot get it cleared up and then maintained on a weekly basis then there will def be a big re-think. I think the world of the old man who owns this horse so I will try to help him first.

When I find a good moment to discuss it I will mention the ILPH option as it is possible that he doesnt know about this route. he has 5 horses, 3 of which are pretty self sufficient and in good shape, 1 needs watching for laminitis, and the Clyde.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Louise

 

[charlottenicol]

Why don't you take some photos, that way you can show the owner and also it gives you a record of how much better he is hopefully getting.

 

[tkmaxx]

Could someone please forward me Theresa's PM, please?
I have a clyde mare who's legs are pretty poor, she was neglected as a yearling and ended up with mites and mud fever. It's been a struggle enough to get her calm enough to let us near her legs, let alone to start treating the mud fever!

 

[Theresa_F]

He does sound bad, however, if you are prepared to keep on top of it, then I would give him a chance. The wormer can help, and plenty of tlc and P&S will hopefully stop things from worsening.

What can happen is infections if the folds are not kept on top of. I think in this case, I would be cutting with sissors all the hair back and then if possible clipping out just to see the true state of things and really get on top of it - normally not necessary but this is a case that is.

Once sores are gone - the sudocream mix I suggested really does work, I would let the feather start to grow back, but keep an eye on the folds and every couple of days run fingers to the skin feeling for new scabs. P&S weekly to start and then every other weeks to keep at bay, Keep on with sulphur in the summer. If properly treated, the feather should keep the folds clean and dry.

If he is not lame, then hopefully you have caught it in time. He will never be a show horse, but hopefully a happy sound one for the future.

I really admire what you are doing - does the old chap have any family who could be asked to contribute/help with things?

Once you get used to putting on P&S it only takes 10 mins start to finish to do.

Good luck

 

[Theresa_F]

Have pm'd you.

 

[charlottenicol]

Even after 2 years Hudson hates anything done with his legs, just doing the p&s can take an afternoon. This may cause an uproar but have even had to twitch him in the past to get it done in minutes otherswise he gets so upset. On the good side can pick out hooves now, it all just takes time and love